| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21501
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
That message is important. But Smollett is a flawed messenger.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
I am sure you are well intended, but I do not understand the argument. None of these claims are related to this case. It is actually the opposite in that Smollett received wide support after his claims from almost every group on the political and cultural spectrum. There was no rich lawyers that discredited him....his story simply fell apart while law enforcement was originally investigating to seek justice for him as a victim. Also, Smollett is not someone that is underprivileged.....he lives a far more privileged life than most if not all of us on LG.
I am not telling you this event may not cause some level of caution the next time something similar is claimed, but as I pointed out before hoaxes where the victim is using racial or sexual overtones to seek attention are not new and the more often they take place, it will only be human nature to proceed with caution. Just look at how many celebrities and politicians jumped on this case strongly either because they genuinely cared or to push their own agenda that now feel a little silly over their statements in support of Smollett.
I continue to hear pleas to not allow this event to cause doubt or question future individuals that claim to be victims. Honestly, that is often just agenda driven talking points. Not all claims of this type are hoaxes, but there definitely is some material % of them that have proven to be just that.....so shouldn't the message be simply to wait for the facts before reaching any conclusion on who to believe? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
JUSSIE SMOLLETT DID NOT PAY BROTHER $3,500 FOR 'ATTACK'
LINK
| Quote: | | Our sources say the brothers made a deal with Jussie to train him for 5 weeks so he could get in shape for an upcoming music video. Jussie had said to Ola that he wanted abs like his. Both Abel and Ola agreed to train Jussie, and also give him a 5-week nutrition plan. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^^Just read that.
IF he did pay these guys to help stage an attack would he pay upfront or after they went through with it?
I guess he was paying for 5 weeks training upfront but that could be traced and argued in court etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | ^^Just read that.
IF he did pay these guys to help stage an attack would he pay upfront or after they went through with it?
I guess he was paying for 5 weeks training upfront but that could be traced and argued in court etc. |
I haven't judged guilty or innocent as yet. To many times the COPO has been wrong.
What I've read and heard makes a good case for guilty. All that's been written causes me to believe if he goes to court and found innocent the mark on the forehead has been stamped.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good read. Sign of the times.
The Jussie Smollett case's far-reaching consequences: 'The worst possible thing at the worst possible time'
LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16162
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jodeke wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | ^^Just read that.
IF he did pay these guys to help stage an attack would he pay upfront or after they went through with it?
I guess he was paying for 5 weeks training upfront but that could be traced and argued in court etc. |
I haven't judged guilty or innocent as yet. To many times the COPO has been wrong.
What I've read and heard makes a good case for guilty. All that's been written causes me to believe if he goes to court and found innocent the mark on the forehead has been stamped. |
You can’t be found innocent in a court of law |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | ^^Just read that.
IF he did pay these guys to help stage an attack would he pay upfront or after they went through with it?
I guess he was paying for 5 weeks training upfront but that could be traced and argued in court etc. |
I haven't judged guilty or innocent as yet. To many times the COPO has been wrong.
What I've read and heard makes a good case for guilty. All that's been written causes me to believe if he goes to court and found innocent the mark on the forehead has been stamped. |
You can’t be found innocent in a court of law |
Yes. An important detail many forget - particularly OJ supporters.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | ^^Just read that.
IF he did pay these guys to help stage an attack would he pay upfront or after they went through with it?
I guess he was paying for 5 weeks training upfront but that could be traced and argued in court etc. |
I haven't judged guilty or innocent as yet. To many times the COPO has been wrong.
What I've read and heard makes a good case for guilty. All that's been written causes me to believe if he goes to court and found innocent the mark on the forehead has been stamped. |
You can’t be found innocent in a court of law |
I know that! Not the intention of my post. I'm one in the COPO gallery. I'm talking about the allegations and their affects. The post is intended to attention the allegations future effects. Even if he's found not guilty the mark will not go away. NOT GUILTY better choice of words?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jodeke wrote: | JUSSIE SMOLLETT DID NOT PAY BROTHER $3,500 FOR 'ATTACK'
LINK
| Quote: | | Our sources say the brothers made a deal with Jussie to train him for 5 weeks so he could get in shape for an upcoming music video. Jussie had said to Ola that he wanted abs like his. Both Abel and Ola agreed to train Jussie, and also give him a 5-week nutrition plan. |
|
well if he's going to double down on his denial of this I'd expect nothing less for his camp to start pumping out contradictory info
_________________
(bleep) Kawhi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21501
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
I am sure you are well intended, but I do not understand the argument. None of these claims are related to this case. It is actually the opposite in that Smollett received wide support after his claims from almost every group on the political and cultural spectrum. There was no rich lawyers that discredited him....his story simply fell apart while law enforcement was originally investigating to seek justice for him as a victim. Also, Smollett is not someone that is underprivileged.....he lives a far more privileged life than most if not all of us on LG.
I am not telling you this event may not cause some level of caution the next time something similar is claimed, but as I pointed out before hoaxes where the victim is using racial or sexual overtones to seek attention are not new and the more often they take place, it will only be human nature to proceed with caution. Just look at how many celebrities and politicians jumped on this case strongly either because they genuinely cared or to push their own agenda that now feel a little silly over their statements in support of Smollett.
I continue to hear pleas to not allow this event to cause doubt or question future individuals that claim to be victims. Honestly, that is often just agenda driven talking points. Not all claims of this type are hoaxes, but there definitely is some material % of them that have proven to be just that.....so shouldn't the message be simply to wait for the facts before reaching any conclusion on who to believe? |
You missed the point. The point is not about Smollett. There was never any claim made by me that Smollett was underprivileged or went up against a powerful lawyer. The argument is looking at future, legitimate, victims of hate crimes. If people found to be falsifying reports are met with jail time, future victims who may be underprivileged, accusing powerful people, face a serious risk of being overpowered.
If your main concern is vindictive punishment of Smollett, thats fine. But if you claim your top concern is real victims, severe punishment or jail time for false accusers is not the best course of action. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21501
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
That message is important. But Smollett is a flawed messenger. |
He is far from the messenger. He is a (bleep) up. It has nothing to do with making Smollett the messenger. What message do you think Smollet has passed in this situation? I'm confused as to why you brought up him being a messenger? I can't see any way to frame him as a messenger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
I am sure you are well intended, but I do not understand the argument. None of these claims are related to this case. It is actually the opposite in that Smollett received wide support after his claims from almost every group on the political and cultural spectrum. There was no rich lawyers that discredited him....his story simply fell apart while law enforcement was originally investigating to seek justice for him as a victim. Also, Smollett is not someone that is underprivileged.....he lives a far more privileged life than most if not all of us on LG.
I am not telling you this event may not cause some level of caution the next time something similar is claimed, but as I pointed out before hoaxes where the victim is using racial or sexual overtones to seek attention are not new and the more often they take place, it will only be human nature to proceed with caution. Just look at how many celebrities and politicians jumped on this case strongly either because they genuinely cared or to push their own agenda that now feel a little silly over their statements in support of Smollett.
I continue to hear pleas to not allow this event to cause doubt or question future individuals that claim to be victims. Honestly, that is often just agenda driven talking points. Not all claims of this type are hoaxes, but there definitely is some material % of them that have proven to be just that.....so shouldn't the message be simply to wait for the facts before reaching any conclusion on who to believe? |
You missed the point. The point is not about Smollett. There was never any claim made by me that Smollett was underprivileged or went up against a powerful lawyer. The argument is looking at future, legitimate, victims of hate crimes. If people found to be falsifying reports are met with jail time, future victims who may be underprivileged, accusing powerful people, face a serious risk of being overpowered.
If your main concern is vindictive punishment of Smollett, thats fine. But if you claim your top concern is real victims, severe punishment or jail time for false accusers is not the best course of action. |
What about women who falsely accused athletes of raped sending the athletes to jail, these women shouldn’t be incarcerated either to protect real rape victims? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Smollett may be on the road to banishment in the entertainment industry. Cute video of Howard's son and Jussie.
Smollett's 'Empire' dad Terrence Howard breaks silence, doubles down on support
LINK
| Quote: | Howard also fired back when a fan criticized him for supporting Smollett.
"Sorry you feel that way but that's the only Jussie I know," he posted. "The Jussie I know could never even conceive of something so unconscious and ugly. His innocence or judgment is not for any of us to decide. Stay in your lane and my lane is empathy and love and compassion for someone I've called my son for five years. It's God's job to judge and it's ours to love and hope, especially for those that we claim to have loved. |
| Quote: | | On Friday, producers of "Empire," which airs on Fox, announced they would remove Smollett's character, Jamal Lyon, from the last two episodes of the current season. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
The American infatuation with incarceration, something that rarely results in good for society, truly boggles the mind. Incarceration was meant to separate those who've proven to be incapable, or unwilling, to live in general society AND are a threat to the rights of others to engage in a peaceful living of their choice within the confines of general decorum. It's insane that a people who preach more about ":Freedom" than any other group on the planet would have such a bloodthirst for comparatively minor offenses to the general decorum, lose their freedom so easily. It's just incomprehensible. A peoples who are willing to shell out $36,000 / year to incarcerate a petty offender, but are unwilling to spend $12,000 to provide a UBI for basic subsistence, do nothing but continue to prove the incidious effects that blind adherence to totalitarian parochial doctrine has on the progress of society. It's just dumb.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
should we change the title to something more like:
"Empire actor LIES about being a victim of a Hate Crime"?
_________________
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| unleasHell wrote: | should we change the title to something more like:
"Empire actor LIES about being a victim of a Hate Crime"? |
Not yet.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jodeke wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | should we change the title to something more like:
"Empire actor LIES about being a victim of a Hate Crime"? |
Not yet. |
It should probably say “allegedly” lies. He should be considered innocent until proven guilty but it’s fair to change the thread title IMO since he is no longer considered a victim by the police. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Jussie Smollett has evidence that disputes allegations he paid two brothers $3,500 to help stage his hate attack, according to a new report.
A check showing that amount and made payable from the “Empire” star’s account to one of the men, Abimbola Osundairo, also has “5 week Nutrition/Workout program (Don’t Go)” written in the memo line, TMZ reported on Sunday.
Police and prosecutors said the check, dated Jan. 23, is evidence that the 36-year-old paid Osundairo and his brother Olabinjo to carry out the hoax assault in Chicago six days later.
But sources told TMZ that the payment was really for training to help Smollett get into shape for a music video for his song, “Don’t Go.”
The 192-pound singer-songwriter wanted to lose 20 pounds for the video — because he was supposed to appear shirtless in it — so he hired Abimbola, a jacked bodybuilder whom he knew from the gym and called “Bon.”
Other evidence weighing in Smollett’s favor are a series of texts been him and “Bon” beginning on Jan. 20, which outlined a healthy meal plan including chicken thigh, Starkist tuna, eggs and Smucker’s peanut butter and various fruit.
“This is the meal plan and the breakdown of macronutrients. Also includes projected fat loss,” Abimbola texted Smollett.
Another one, dated Jan. 28 — hours before the attack, the gym buff wrote to Smollett, “I know you’re traveling today, make sure you get at least 45 mins of cardio.”
The $3,500 total check accounted for $600-a-week for five weeks of the workout plan and $100-a-week for the food plan, also for five weeks, sources told TMZ.
Another text seems to show that “Don’t Go” was slated to film on Feb. 23. Meanwhile, a screenshot from Venmo shows Smollett had paid “Bola” $100 on Sept. 27 for “training” — potentially giving credence to the actor’s claims that the $3,500 wasn’t related to the Jan. 29 “attack.”
Both brothers testified before a grand jury that the payment was for training. |
KeyStone Cops & Acting Actor
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's beginning to look like the $3,500 check was for training. That doesn't dispute the attack. Jussie has a steep hill to climb in that regard.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lol well ofcourse he'd put something like that on the memo line. I wouldnt expect him to write "payment for staged attack" on a check
_________________
(bleep) Kawhi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The mistake people are making is that they are judging this case in a vacuum, and against Smollett only. But with today's racially charged climate, and the precendentary nature of legal decisions, we should be thinking of the larger implications of decisions. Victims of race or sexually identity hate crimes are members of groups with less power than their attackers. Victims of these crimes should not fear serious jail time as a consequence of speaking out if nobody believes them or if rich racist homophobes hire great lawyers to discredit hem. |
That message is important. But Smollett is a flawed messenger. |
He is far from the messenger. He is a (bleep) up. It has nothing to do with making Smollett the messenger. What message do you think Smollet has passed in this situation? I'm confused as to why you brought up him being a messenger? I can't see any way to frame him as a messenger. |
Medium is a better word to use.
Yes, the bolded is 100% accurate. It's the norm. Victims are harassed and slandered for coming forward.
But in Smollett's specific case. He lied.
This case has gotten more exposure than others. That's why I called him a messenger. I know victims didn't come together and elect Smollett their leader. That would be crazy and nonsensical.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jodeke wrote: | | It's beginning to look like the $3,500 check was for training. That doesn't dispute the attack. Jussie has a steep hill to climb in that regard. |
Just wait for it. The police will release a screen-cap showing Roger Stone & Paul Manafort wearing MAGA caps and holding a rope in front of a Subway sandwich shop receiving money from Schmuckkets just moments before the "attack". This whole thing is reading a wee too much like a script. Not an ounce of truth in any of it from pretty much all involved...
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67720
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| audioaxes wrote: | | lol well ofcourse he'd put something like that on the memo line. I wouldnt expect him to write "payment for staged attack" on a check |
It's not what you believe, it's what you can prove.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
