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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject:

when it comes right down to it We have Nads

https://twitter.com/RepJerryNadler?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject:

We must remember that the Russians, on one side of the issue, are not going to help in any investigation, and that Trump likely has promised Manifort and Stone their freedom if they shut the f up, thus denying complete information of what went on.

I've never seen anyone who was innocent, who acted so guilty, who lied continually about Russian contacts, who had a multitude of others willing to go to jail to lie about their contacts with Russians, but apparently you see this differently, and Democrats should hold their heads in shame.

Oh yeah, since nearly every Republican alive, including all the Republicans involved in the leadership of this case, including Mueller, that a sitting president can't be indicted, should we expect an indictment?

Just as with Al Capone, who was just as criminally cagey, it might be something else that sinks the leader of the Republican Party.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


There is still a high likelihood Jared and Don Jr. go to prison for lying to Congress. Mueller recently got their testimony to Congress, and Mueller can recommend future investigations into their sworn testimony in his report.

Whether Trump is impeached or not isn't up to Mueller. It's up to the Dems to decide if it's politically expedient when we can just vote him out of office a year from now.

We still don't know why Trump Jr. lied about the Trump Tower meeting or who told Stone to contact wikileaks. Maybe that'll be in the reports.

Also, Mueller could say Trump broke the law in his summary.

The State of New York isn't done with Trump. And if he's voted out of office it is much easier to prosecute and jail him.

I really recommend Seth Abramson's twitter. He has a 50 post thread made today that explains pretty clearly why this isn't the end of Trump's legal trouble.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/with_replies

Larry Coon put me up on Abramson. And Seth knows his stuff.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject:

Any impeachment would only come in a second term...UNLESS the republicans for some reason couldn't wait
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject:

No one has read the report yet. Jumping to absolute conclusions about how this will play out is short sighted. So much has been farmed out to SDNY and others, future indictments are more than possible from those jurisdictions.

Also, remember that obstruction of justice isn't necessarily a criminal charge -- but it is something congress could consider when deciding whether to impeach. I would assume Mueller would be turning over evidence of obstruction to Congress via the report.

The Congressional hearings and investigations under Democrats are just beginning.

This is more like the beginning of the next phase rather than the end of the whole thing. We are in the 7th inning, not the 9th.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.


Kinda nit-picky don't ya think?

Regardless, as ocho said, the major drum beat from the Left has been "collusion . . . collusion . . . collusion . . . Mueller . . . Mueller . . . Mueller . . . "
This anti-climactic result is definitely as defining at this point . . . at least for now. I don't know anyone would deny that.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.


Kinda nit-picky don't ya think?

Regardless, as ocho said, the major drum beat from the Left has been "collusion . . . collusion . . . collusion . . . Mueller . . . Mueller . . . Mueller . . . "
This anti-climactic result is definitely as defining at this point . . . at least for now. I don't know anyone would deny that.


what did it define? that the report has been summited? Time to digest that report
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.


Kinda nit-picky don't ya think?


Nope. As I said, there almost certainly could never be an indictment of Trump. Also, there was collusion and a lot of circumstantial, or maybe potentially circumstantial, evidence, related to collusion and even possibly even criminal conspiracy, but as CL said, we are not at the finish line.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject:

There is certainly direct, compelling evidence of obstruction by multiple admissions by Trump.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject:

I guess the only disappointment is that there is no indictment of conspiracy by American persons, which we would expect Mueller to bring if there is one, as opposed to career federal prosecutors . Manafort is the key guy. There is a reason his lawyer kept repeating the no collusion line, which told Trump that Manafort didn't give any information away in return for a pardon down the line. So Mueller could simply have concluded that he didn't have enough evidence on collusion/conspiracy.

Since Mueller isn't gonna indict a sitting president, everything else is still possible, including that he found enough evidence for obstruction.

And all the other actors could still be indicted in SDNY and elsewhere.

This wasn't as bad as some have characterized it, nor was it a perfect news day.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject:

At this point since we know Senate Republicans will never vote to convict Trump, the long term strategy is to continue public Congressional hearings with witnesses airing a much Trump and Trump administration wrongdoing as possible to reduce his chances of being reelected.

Nancy Pelosi can only play the Impeachment card once. If Trump somehow wins a second term and the Democrats retake the Senate, then you play that card.

So now we want as much information as possible made public. There could be a great deal of underlying material in the report pointing to misdeeds even if it didn't meet the bar for indictment (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
At this point since we know Senate Republicans will never vote to convict Trump, the long term strategy is to continue public Congressional hearings with witnesses airing a much Trump and Trump administration wrongdoing as possible to reduce his chances of being reelected.

Nancy Pelosi can only play the Impeachment card once. If Trump somehow wins a second term and the Democrats retake the Senate, then you play that card.

So now we want as much information as possible made public. There could be a great deal of underlying material in the report pointing to misdeeds even if it didn't meet the bar for indictment (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).


missed your concise explanations
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.


Kinda nit-picky don't ya think?


Nope. As I said, there almost certainly could never be an indictment of Trump. Also, there was collusion and a lot of circumstantial, or maybe potentially circumstantial, evidence, related to collusion and even possibly even criminal conspiracy, but as CL said, we are not at the finish line.


And I never expected one. That's not the point. The family isn't protected. The fact that there are no further indictments (sealed or otherwise) coming out of this investigation and that the ones that have come have brought very little in the way of mean in meaningful punishment is indicative that the report is underwhelming in its substance, to put it kindly.

The sell was hard for what is being delivered , that is undeniable. This idea that the meal will come later and it will erase the sparse serving now on the table is flawed, because if there was anything meaningful to come later, there would have been much more meat on the table and less promise of dessert later.

It has become clearly obvious over time that no matter how guilty the Trumps undeniably are, there's not enough to make them pay criminally. And I don't think that's going to be any different with a "change of venue" to the SDNY.

No one named Trump is ever going to face trial, much less be convicted and serve time. Not because they aren't guilty, but because there's not the evidence to support it. If there was, the Mueller investigation wouldn't have resulted in what is essentially a punt.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
At this point since we know Senate Republicans will never vote to convict Trump, the long term strategy is to continue public Congressional hearings with witnesses airing a much Trump and Trump administration wrongdoing as possible to reduce his chances of being reelected.

Nancy Pelosi can only play the Impeachment card once. If Trump somehow wins a second term and the Democrats retake the Senate, then you play that card.

So now we want as much information as possible made public. There could be a great deal of underlying material in the report pointing to misdeeds even if it didn't meet the bar for indictment (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).


Here's the problem with that notion. Republicans aren't going to abandon Trump over this without the smoking gun that Mueller was allegedly going to present. And Dems who were hoping for that smoking gun are going to vote against Trump anyway. So this report is going to have zero impact on the election.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
governator wrote:
Champagne of beer... Mueller Time!


No new charges. Pretty embarrassing for Democrats.


That's a pretty shallow narrative (not saying you're shallow, just that the framing is)


I think it's a reasonable response given how much hay was made out of this for two years.


There sure was a lot of smoke, but I don't recall too many Democrats stating that Trump, for a fact, conspired with Russia. Many have said he colluded, which is beyond obvious, worthy of ALL the chatter, and is a sufficient scandal by itself to warrant ALL the criticism.


Maybe we hear different chatter but I've been hearing for two years how Mueller is going to bring the hammer down on Trump, that the walls are closing in, that Trump will be impeached, that Jared will go to prison, Don Jr will go to prison, etc. The Russia drum has been beaten loudly and consistently for two years.


Maybe some in some forums such as this, and maybe there are a few elected politicians who made such radical predictions, though I can't think of any. Also, I can't think of any hosts on any of networks who did either.


Kinda nit-picky don't ya think?


Nope. As I said, there almost certainly could never be an indictment of Trump. Also, there was collusion and a lot of circumstantial, or maybe potentially circumstantial, evidence, related to collusion and even possibly even criminal conspiracy, but as CL said, we are not at the finish line.


And I never expected one. That's not the point. The family isn't protected. The fact that there are no further indictments (sealed or otherwise) coming out of this investigation and that the ones that have come have brought very little in the way of mean in meaningful punishment is indicative that the report is underwhelming in its substance, to put it kindly.

The sell was hard for what is being delivered , that is undeniable. This idea that the meal will come later and it will erase the sparse serving now on the table is flawed, because if there was anything meaningful to come later, there would have been much more meat on the table and less promise of dessert later.

It has become clearly obvious over time that no matter how guilty the Trumps undeniably are, there's not enough to make them pay criminally. And I don't think that's going to be any different with a "change of venue" to the SDNY.

No one named Trump is ever going to face trial, much less be convicted and serve time. Not because they aren't guilty, but because there's not the evidence to support it. If there was, the Mueller investigation wouldn't have resulted in what is essentially a punt.


Unless Mueller moved it to preserve indictments until after Trump can’t pardon them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject:

Justice officials are saying the report is “comprehensive”
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
At this point since we know Senate Republicans will never vote to convict Trump, the long term strategy is to continue public Congressional hearings with witnesses airing a much Trump and Trump administration wrongdoing as possible to reduce his chances of being reelected.

Nancy Pelosi can only play the Impeachment card once. If Trump somehow wins a second term and the Democrats retake the Senate, then you play that card.

So now we want as much information as possible made public. There could be a great deal of underlying material in the report pointing to misdeeds even if it didn't meet the bar for indictment (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).


Here's the problem with that notion. Republicans aren't going to abandon Trump over this without the smoking gun that Mueller was allegedly going to present. And Dems who were hoping for that smoking gun are going to vote against Trump anyway. So this report is going to have zero impact on the election.


Independents and 77,000 voters in swing states who realize they purchased a lemon could impact the election. I don't give a (bleep) about Republicans. We have to outvote them the way we did in the mid-terms.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject:

And there is other administration "wrongdoing" to be exposed at Congressional hearings other than Russia. I could list 50 other things from kidnapping babies, EPA pollution reversals, GOP sabotage of ACA, financial corruption by various cabinet members, emoluments violations, email/server scandals, Saudi shenanigans by Jared and on and on and on.

People get fed up with government corruption and want to vote that party out -- especially Independents.


Last edited by ChefLinda on Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
At this point since we know Senate Republicans will never vote to convict Trump, the long term strategy is to continue public Congressional hearings with witnesses airing a much Trump and Trump administration wrongdoing as possible to reduce his chances of being reelected.

Nancy Pelosi can only play the Impeachment card once. If Trump somehow wins a second term and the Democrats retake the Senate, then you play that card.

So now we want as much information as possible made public. There could be a great deal of underlying material in the report pointing to misdeeds even if it didn't meet the bar for indictment (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).


Here's the problem with that notion. Republicans aren't going to abandon Trump over this without the smoking gun that Mueller was allegedly going to present. And Dems who were hoping for that smoking gun are going to vote against Trump anyway. So this report is going to have zero impact on the election.


Independents and 77,000 voters in swing states who realize they purchased a lemon could impact the election. I don't give a (bleep) about Republicans. We have to outvote them the way we did in the mid-terms.


The Lemon was a lemon from the get go. I don't see this introducing buyers remorse into anyone who made the purchase in the first place. As you point out, it's time to quit waiting on the politicians and lawyers to do anything. Time for Dems to come together and make the most of their monopoly of votes. Hopefully we can do so without tearing away at our various candidates the way we have insisted on doing in the first stage of this election cycle.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject:

2018 historic mid-term wave says hello.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
2018 historic mid-term wave says hello.


I'm not ignoring that. I'm just pointing out that at the same time, we are going about the same mistakes we made the last Presidential election (and maybe even compounding them). And I am sadly not alone in that observation.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject:

A piece of wisdom that I came across today: What conservatives fear most is that they will be treated in the same manner they have treated others.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
A piece of wisdom that I came across today: What conservatives fear most is that they will be treated in the same manner they have treated others.


Yup. This is the essence of the fear of replacement.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Do you think there's a remote possibly that the AG will ask trump to resign quietly if he is obviously guilty to keep the respect of the executive branch? Don't get me wrong I want the entire thing laid out on the table for everyone to see but I'm not sure this country can handle an impeachment/trial of the president.
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