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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
So you think it's just a grand standing or political theater to try to impeach a corrupt president (even if you agree that Trump has done impeachable offenses). I don't see it the same way. The principle matters, to not do anything is what frightens some of us


And where was “doing nothing” even remotely suggested?


change it to 'not proceeding with impeachment' if it's more accurate for you


It's not a question of what is more accurate for me.

The comment was a blatant misrepresentation of what is being said, clearly in an attempt to dismiss any merit to it.


Ok DMR, tons of big words but I'm not even sure what you're arguing about with what I wrote. I'm in favor of going with the impeachment process, you're not. I get it. What I'm saying is that you or me or anybody else don't know how this would play out in the end, even with GOP protecting and successfully defeat the impeachment. If the dems can make the case to the public, it can still be beneficial to the country in general and to the left specifically even if Trump survived the impeachment attempt. We simply don't know how the country would react
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Ukrainians on Sunday overwhelmingly voted to make a comedian their next president — ushering in a new era of politics in the struggling country.

Volodymyr Zelensky, a famous comedian who portrayed Ukraine’s head of state for years on a popular comedy show, defeated the incumbent president, Petro Poroshenko, who had been in power since 2014.

According to exit polls, Zelensky won a staggering 73 percent of the vote. Poroshenko conceded the race not long after polls closed.

It’s all quite the rise for an ordinary guy who, well, played an ordinary guy-turned-president on television.


A World Fed Up With Business as Usual
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
Quote:
Ukrainians on Sunday overwhelmingly voted to make a comedian their next president — ushering in a new era of politics in the struggling country.

Volodymyr Zelensky, a famous comedian who portrayed Ukraine’s head of state for years on a popular comedy show, defeated the incumbent president, Petro Poroshenko, who had been in power since 2014.

According to exit polls, Zelensky won a staggering 73 percent of the vote. Poroshenko conceded the race not long after polls closed.

It’s all quite the rise for an ordinary guy who, well, played an ordinary guy-turned-president on television.


A World Fed Up With Business as Usual

We elected a reality show host. LINK
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Our base is as solid as Trumps. My concern is registration and actually voting.


Great post overall.
Just want to highlight this point because this point is why I want the House to impeach. And impeach him for everything. Emoluments, coordinating with a foreign power, campaign finance violations, obstruction. All of it. Be the party that says enough is enough. That will rally the base and inspire Democrat voters long past Trump.

Nothing is more important than turning out our base.


I think part of the problem is a misunderstanding of who The Democratic haze is. Hint: your base is the broadest section that reliably turns out. Aiming to turn out the least reliable of your voters at the expense of your actual base is poor logic, which is why Pelosi’s midterm strategy was exactly NOT red meat impeachment because that feels like principle to the least practical voters. Impeachment is like putting all your troops on boats and attacking the Japanese homeland directly after Pearl Harbor. Pelosi is an island hopper, and if you want to truly hold Trump and the GOP to account, you ought to listen to her.


Love this analogy. The former feels great but the latter won the war. And I bet Nancy knows the most strategic islands too.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120013694073810944

"Easter Worshipers"

Trolls are trying to paint this as someone unwilling to say "Christians"

This is how sadly broken our fellow citizens are around us.

What religion recognizes Easter. AND to top it off.. Other religions are allowed to celebrate Easter too.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
So you think it's just a grand standing or political theater to try to impeach a corrupt president (even if you agree that Trump has done impeachable offenses). I don't see it the same way. The principle matters, to not do anything is what frightens some of us


And where was “doing nothing” even remotely suggested?


change it to 'not proceeding with impeachment' if it's more accurate for you


It's not a question of what is more accurate for me.

The comment was a blatant misrepresentation of what is being said, clearly in an attempt to dismiss any merit to it.


Ok DMR, tons of big words but I'm not even sure what you're arguing about with what I wrote. I'm in favor of going with the impeachment process, you're not. I get it. What I'm saying is that you or me or anybody else don't know how this would play out in the end, even with GOP protecting and successfully defeat the impeachment. If the dems can make the case to the public, it can still be beneficial to the country in general and to the left specifically even if Trump survived the impeachment attempt. We simply don't know how the country would react


Look. I don't have any problem with people advocating for the Dems to initiating the impeachment process. I understand where you are coming from.

What I am arguing against is this assertion that those who don't think it is the best strategy are saying to do nothing - which is absolutely not the case.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Our base is as solid as Trumps. My concern is registration and actually voting.


Great post overall.
Just want to highlight this point because this point is why I want the House to impeach. And impeach him for everything. Emoluments, coordinating with a foreign power, campaign finance violations, obstruction. All of it. Be the party that says enough is enough. That will rally the base and inspire Democrat voters long past Trump.

Nothing is more important than turning out our base.


I think part of the problem is a misunderstanding of who The Democratic haze is. Hint: your base is the broadest section that reliably turns out. Aiming to turn out the least reliable of your voters at the expense of your actual base is poor logic, which is why Pelosi’s midterm strategy was exactly NOT red meat impeachment because that feels like principle to the least practical voters. Impeachment is like putting all your troops on boats and attacking the Japanese homeland directly after Pearl Harbor. Pelosi is an island hopper, and if you want to truly hold Trump and the GOP to account, you ought to listen to her.


How is impeaching Trump at the expense of our "actual base"?
You could make the same argument and say the Dems shouldn't propose any progressive policy either.
Whether we're talking about impeachment or progressive policy, both die in the Senate. But, more importantly, both show the voters what the Dems envision for the country.

I want the people who showed up in 2018 to show up again in 2020. I think holding Trump accountable is a good way to do that. Otherwise, why should they vote?
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject:

Really? You can’t think of one thing Democrat’s represent or do that’s worth voting for besides impeaching Trump?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Really? You can’t think of one thing Democrat’s represent or do that’s worth voting for besides impeaching Trump?


Of course I can. But why would I believe they can get policy done, if they are too afraid to impeach a President for breaking the law.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject:

I do think Trump should be impeached just because he is becoming violent and has no limit

I agree with kikanga that Americans should know their politicians are trying to protect them and their country.

Trump is an illegitimate president who gives no (bleep) about his base or america.. just himself

He will continue to sow discord and tear at Americas institutions and foster racism and intolerance daily for the next two years

**Better have a plan to attack trumps Bishops and Knights etc .. and Queen McConnell

His Son in law helped Saudi Arabia murder a us citizen and chop him into pieces...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Really? You can’t think of one thing Democrat’s represent or do that’s worth voting for besides impeaching Trump?


Of course I can. But why would I believe they can get policy done, if they are too afraid to impeach a President for breaking the law.


Please stop that false narrative. It's not a question of "being too afraid".

There are valid reasons for a strategy that the Dems take on Trump and the GOP without initiating impeachment proceedings when actual impeachment is essentially impossible.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Really? You can’t think of one thing Democrat’s represent or do that’s worth voting for besides impeaching Trump?


Of course I can. But why would I believe they can get policy done, if they are too afraid to impeach a President for breaking the law.


Please stop that false narrative. It's not a question of "being too afraid".

There are valid reasons for a strategy that the Dems take on Trump and the GOP without initiating impeachment proceedings when actual impeachment is essentially impossible.


Yep, like putting 100% of their energies into defeating Trump without unnecessary time consuming distractions. And it's difficult not to chuckle when someone suggests they can be good at multiple big tasks at once. I've clearly been witness to a different Congress over the past qtr century, because the one I've witnessed has shown great difficulty in keeping on task with just one major cause, let alone multiple ones over a short 18 month period of time. Clearly some have witnessed a more capable Congress than I've witnessed. And expecting them to undertake a task supported by less than 1/3rd of the population, a support that's rapidly erroding as each month passes. Why on earth would any sane legislator undertake that battle in that climate with that lack of broad support.

I get it. The guy is a criminal tool, but making sure we're focused on getting rid of him is more important than any level of bloodthirst. And the best way to discourage future criminals is to stop friggin electing them in the first place. It's not like the guy was a surprise. He's been this creepy for pretty much all of his forsaken time on the planet.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject:

You prompted me to look up what happened when Nixon was impeached.

Congress passed a pretty decent amount of legislation in the Nixon era from when the Watergate hearings began all the way through when the hearings on impeaching Nixon concluded. Of course the advantage they enjoyed was that both chambers were a Democratic at the time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/93rd_United_States_Congress
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject:

There are three things we want to accomplish before anything:

Stop everything possible that the GOP is doing.
Get Trump and as much of the GOP out of office as soon as possible.
Repair the damage and hold people accountable.

Then, we can get to some progress. I ain’t got time for moral stands, and neither does the country. You want to make a stand? Support those three things.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:10 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Really? You can’t think of one thing Democrat’s represent or do that’s worth voting for besides impeaching Trump?


Of course I can. But why would I believe they can get policy done, if they are too afraid to impeach a President for breaking the law.


Please stop that false narrative. It's not a question of "being too afraid".

There are valid reasons for a strategy that the Dems take on Trump and the GOP without initiating impeachment proceedings when actual impeachment is essentially impossible.


There are valid concerns that go with impeachment. But the essentially impossible argument has no merit.
All Democratic policy coming out of the House is essentially impossible. Yet they should still craft policy. They should still pass bills. Even though McConnell will throw them in the trash and never bring them to the Senate floor.
Its proof for the voters.

I understand the worry. But impeachment can really galvanize Democrat voters. Democrats don't believe the President is above the law.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:


I understand the worry. But impeachment can really galvanize Democrat voters. Democrats don't believe the President is above the law.


Democrat voters are NOT galvanised behind the issue of impeachment. A sum total of 60% and FALLING do NOT want to pursue impeachment. How is THAT a winning strategy? The polls have been consistently clear on the matter. It's smarter to save the moral battles until AFTER that creep has been chased from the Oval office. That's the only galvinization I care about. This isn't the time for unnecessary distractions, especially when the distraction would drive greater numbers of the opposition to the polls just to get the "Win" that they've been conditioned to believe is all that matters.

NO. Concentrate on a positive message, get rid of the cancer, and THEN pay homage to ones moral outrage. It's pretty simple. What's more important? Getting rid of the cancer? Of getting a short lived feel good moment? Eradicate the cancer, then get back to worrying about lesser issues after the cancer has been eradicated.

If you were fighting cancer, would you take time from your chemo to fight a lawsuit against your neighbor who built a fence 2 feet on your side of the property line? The smart choice is to concentrate on your chemo 100% and table the rest of your battles until after you've successfully protected your ability to first live. Time and place for everything...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:29 am    Post subject:

Boy...I remember the good old days...like just 15 years ago when all it took was one lie to force my Mother to reconsider her political stance. Sure it was a hello I love you when she called then if she hadn't come to her senses I would set the phone down then come back a half hour later and hang it up....that went on for about 6 months. I remember her saying 'Do you think you're funny?' I answered 'Do you think I'm joking'...I think when I told her how disappointed I was that I thought she was smarter than to be conned by a bunch of con men
I drew the line over the Yellow Cake lie...it only took one in the end to change her vote...trump would be a cakewalk...so easy to hold their feet over the fire
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governator
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:34 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
There are three things we want to accomplish before anything:

Stop everything possible that the GOP is doing.
Get Trump and as much of the GOP out of office as soon as possible.
Repair the damage and hold people accountable.

Then, we can get to some progress. I ain’t got time for moral stands, and neither does the country. You want to make a stand? Support those three things.


Why would starting the impeachment process stop the dems from doing those three thing?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

There are valid concerns that go with impeachment. But the essentially impossible argument has no merit.
All Democratic policy coming out of the House is essentially impossible. Yet they should still craft policy. They should still pass bills. Even though McConnell will throw them in the trash and never bring them to the Senate floor.
Its proof for the voters.

I understand the worry. But impeachment can really galvanize Democrat voters. Democrats don't believe the President is above the law.


Of course they should. But that's an argument for proceeding with usual business and in no way negates the impossibility of Republicans voting for impeachment. They are two completely different issues.

As for the Dems. They don't need impeachment to galvanize them. Trumop's presence in the office is enough on it's own.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject:

A trend I approve of...

Jon Ralston

@RalstonReports

So why hasn't Nevada done this when it is controlled by Dems? Seems to me, after reading this via the great @jonathanvswan, that someone in Dem-controlled Carson City would have thought of it in a state that could, ahem, really matter.

4. Trump's 2020 tax dilemma

A number of Republican Party officials and Trump advisers are
studying a trend that has received scant national media coverage but could
pose a jarring dilemma for the president: Will Trump have to choose
between releasing his tax returns and having his name on the ballot in
some blue states for the 2020 election?

e Illinois’ state senate recently passed a bill that would require
people running for president or vice president to disclose their
tax returns from the past five years.

The big picture: Illinois is not alone. Per the National Conference of
State Legislatures...
"As of February 20, 2017 legislators in 18 states (Arizona,

California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland,

Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon,

Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia)

have introduced bills" to require "future presidential candidates to

3:16 PM - 21 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:45 am    Post subject:

Republicans....is the whole party obstructionists or is it just the trump thugs?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject:

I guess it's all of them...

After Democrats Surged In 2018, Republican-Run States Eye New Curbs On Voting
April 22, 20195:00 AM ET

Quote:
After high turnout in last year's midterm elections propelled Democrats to a new House majority and big gains in the states, several Republican-controlled state legislatures are attempting to change voting-related rules in ways that might reduce future voter turnout.

In Texas, state lawmakers are considering adding criminal penalties for people who improperly fill out voter registration forms. Arizona Republicans are proposing new voting rules that could make it more complicated to cast an early ballot. In Tennessee, GOP lawmakers are considering a bill that would fine groups involved in voter registration drives that submit incomplete forms.

Republican lawmakers in those states say new laws are needed to maintain the integrity of voter rolls and prevent fraud. Voting rights advocates and Democrats dismiss those claims and argue that the policies are designed to dampen turnout among younger, nonwhite and poorer voters, who are less likely to back Republicans.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject:

Try this (bleep) in the past and someone would burn their home down or shoot them

Harming voting rights SHOULD BE immediate handcuffs and sort it out while the perp rots in jail
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:

There are valid concerns that go with impeachment. But the essentially impossible argument has no merit.
All Democratic policy coming out of the House is essentially impossible. Yet they should still craft policy. They should still pass bills. Even though McConnell will throw them in the trash and never bring them to the Senate floor.
Its proof for the voters.

I understand the worry. But impeachment can really galvanize Democrat voters. Democrats don't believe the President is above the law.


Of course they should. But that's an argument for proceeding with usual business and in no way negates the impossibility of Republicans voting for impeachment. They are two completely different issues.

As for the Dems. They don't need impeachment to galvanize them. Trumop's presence in the office is enough on it's own.


I don't see the difference. Impeaching a President who breaks the law is normal business. Having a President who does break the law as flagrantly as Trump is what makes the situation special.
If Dems sit on their hands and don't impeach. I think it will negatively effect voter turnout. It's an advertisement for apathy.

That's why Warren, Buttigieg, and Sanders all think we should impeach. They want to increase turnout.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:

There are valid concerns that go with impeachment. But the essentially impossible argument has no merit.
All Democratic policy coming out of the House is essentially impossible. Yet they should still craft policy. They should still pass bills. Even though McConnell will throw them in the trash and never bring them to the Senate floor.
Its proof for the voters.

I understand the worry. But impeachment can really galvanize Democrat voters. Democrats don't believe the President is above the law.


Of course they should. But that's an argument for proceeding with usual business and in no way negates the impossibility of Republicans voting for impeachment. They are two completely different issues.

As for the Dems. They don't need impeachment to galvanize them. Trumop's presence in the office is enough on it's own.


I don't see the difference. Impeaching a President who breaks the law is normal business. Having a President who does break the law as flagrantly as Trump is what makes the situation special.
If Dems sit on their hands and don't impeach. I think it will negatively effect voter turnout. It's an advertisement for apathy.


The difference has been enumerated here repeatedly. If you can't see the difference between the routine of proposing bills etc. which occurs consistently throughout the entire course of work versus initiating an extremely rare and volatile political move of impeaching a President then I don't know what to tell you because the difference is obvious.

Quote:
That's why Warren, Buttigieg, and Sanders all think we should impeach. They want to increase turnout.


Dems who care are going to turnout either way. An impeachment isn't going to rouse any Dem over who isn't already motivated.
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