Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
You know what I find disturbing in all of this is that whenever Trump or someone on the right says something offensive people like RF will be more outraged by the reaction than said person who made the the original comment.


Here we go!

It totally depends on the situation. Novel concept, I know.

Unlike many, I am not a) easily outraged and b) one who feels that anything that can be offensive, is offensive. I decide what is offensive to me, not someone else.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
nickuku wrote:
You know what I find disturbing in all of this is that whenever Trump or someone on the right says something offensive people like RF will be more outraged by the reaction than said person who made the the original comment.


Here we go!

It totally depends on the situation. Novel concept, I know.

Unlike many, I am not a) easily outraged and b) one who feels that anything that can be offensive, is offensive. I decide what is offensive to me, not someone else.


Right. Then why are you judging others when they are offended by something?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
nickuku wrote:
You know what I find disturbing in all of this is that whenever Trump or someone on the right says something offensive people like RF will be more outraged by the reaction than said person who made the the original comment.


Here we go!

It totally depends on the situation. Novel concept, I know.

Unlike many, I am not a) easily outraged and b) one who feels that anything that can be offensive, is offensive. I decide what is offensive to me, not someone else.


And yet you almost always have the same predictable response.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
nickuku wrote:
You know what I find disturbing in all of this is that whenever Trump or someone on the right says something offensive people like RF will be more outraged by the reaction than said person who made the the original comment.


Here we go!

It totally depends on the situation. Novel concept, I know.

Unlike many, I am not a) easily outraged and b) one who feels that anything that can be offensive, is offensive. I decide what is offensive to me, not someone else.


Right. Then why are you judging others when they are offended by something?


I don’t really judge others when they are offended. What I judge, admittedly, is more so on how a person expresses their offensiveness. If that makes sense? The callout culture, etc is what I have an issue with.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:


No. The discussion came to a halt because I had 4 people descending on me like a pack of wolves at the same time so i just bailed after a while.


A ridiculous exaggeration of events. You, and others who complain about the Poli thread always attempt to play victim when their posts are held to scrutiny.

There's this attitude that people should be able to post whatever they wish in that thread without having their posts addressed without commentary from those that disagree.

None of the regular participants in that thread have that expectation and in fact we often disagree quite vociferously. We understand that when one makes an assertion it is acceptable and anticipated that if someone disagrees with it they will express that and challenge it on it merits.

Those that complain about the thread are those who want to such standard applied to them.

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You seem to be under the belief that you or other leftists get to decide whether my and others evidence is sufficient.I disagree with that.


You, as you did in that recent exchange, define "evidence" as opinion. You provided no "evidence". Just analogies and a personal observations presented as fact. You made assertions and when asked to give evidence of thsoe assertions, you balked.

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Unless, it’s a liberals thread masquerading as a political thread which is what it was and your response proves that.


Not even remotely. The factual history of that thread is right there for all to read and that records supports what I and others have said.

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Because if we are in a “whats car should I buy thread” to whom must I provide evidence behind my auto brand suggestion? No one, right? Why is there is pseudo blue ribbon panel for validating “evidence” in virtually any other thread?


Another pointless and errant analogy. Opinions about a car purchase are very different than making assertions about how things are in the political world. But lets run with that analogy. If someone suggests you buy model X because "it looks cool and I love mine" that is very different than someone saying you should buy model Y because it has the best gas milage, maintains it's value at a better rate than a competitors. One is a position of verifiable merit based on factual evidence. The problem arises when the person who makes the first statement presents it as if it meets those same standards. In the world of political discussion, saying "I like Trump because he's not afraid to push buttons and I agree with what he says" is very different than saying "Trump is a good President because his policies have improved the economy". If you make the second statement, people are quite right to challenge you to back that up with evidence. And that is not an "attack".
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
The callout culture, etc is what I have an issue with.


The irony is staggering there.

You're whole schtick is calling people out on just about any and every subject.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject:

^ I guess my point is that there is no arbiter of what evidence is to be considered valid.

You aren’t the arbiter. Neither is ribeye.

On the most recent exchange, I replied I think to kikanga.

Why do you (or someone else) feel that if and when you choose to butt in, that the person must provide evidence that is satisfactory to you?

I don’t ever ask you to provide evidence that is satisfactory to me. Wondering why it is you feel discourse works that way?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
^ I guess my point is that there is no arbiter of what evidence is to be considered valid.


Look. You and I disagree on a great many things. You are clearly an intelligent person, so I know you know that statement is BS. There is a plethora of measures to determine what evidence valid and verifiable.

Quote:
You aren’t the arbiter. Neither is ribeye.


I feel safe in speaking for ribeye when I say neither us claim to be. Which is why we push for actual verifiable evidence to back up assertions. The request to point to factual information is not an unreasonable ask in this information age, nor is it a difficult job to do.

On the most recent exchange, I replied I think to kikanga.

Quote:
Why do you (or someone else) feel that if and when you choose to butt in, that the person must provide evidence that is satisfactory to you?


Come on. You "butt into" all kinds of subjects here to inject your brand of Devils advocacy and contrarianism with all too much frequency. So save us all that ":I'm just minding my own business" BS.

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I don’t ever ask you to provide evidence that is satisfactory to me.


True, You skip past that part of discussion and just launch into telling people why they are wrong. Which is what gets you into trouble in the Poli thread.


Quote:
Wondering why it is you feel discourse works that way?


Because that is how debate works. If you make an assertion it is incumbent on you to back it up with reason based on facts. And again, you are clearly an intelligent person, so you should know that.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject:

^DMR, sometimes people arent looking for a debate man. Sometimes they are just throwing in their $0.02. Like why is everything a debate?

Whether it is a car thread, politics thread, Lakers thread, or the Jussie Smollett thread. Like, I don’t feel the need in the Smollett thread to debate everyone who thought he was truthful and demand they provide the evidence that formed the opinion. Iirc correctly, you were one of the people who in the early part of the thread, said you believed him. I don’t think anyone, definitely not me, ever demanded you provide evidence to back up your position. It was just people discussing their opinions about what happened. A discussion.

Are we unable to distinguish between a discussion and a debate? If someone is trying to convince you and change your mind on something I agree they should provide evidence. But it seems like you always approach this as a debate, as you said, but I think sometimes, it’s just a discussion or someone throwing in their $0.02.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject:

I have never been on Twitter, joined twitter or even care about twitter and yet somehow food tastes the same, the sun still comes up and I am still employed...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject:

You guys reminds me of this

https://imgur.com/gallery/y7ETTy1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
^DMR, sometimes people arent looking for a debate man. Sometimes they are just throwing in their $0.02. Like why is everything a debate?

Whether it is a car thread, politics thread, Lakers thread, or the Jussie Smollett thread. Like, I don’t feel the need in the Smollett thread to debate everyone who thought he was truthful and demand they provide the evidence that formed the opinion. Iirc correctly, you were one of the people who in the early part of the thread, said you believed him. I don’t think anyone, definitely not me, ever demanded you provide evidence to back up your position. It was just people discussing their opinions about what happened. A discussion.

Are we unable to distinguish between a discussion and a debate? If someone is trying to convince you and change your mind on something I agree they should provide evidence. But it seems like you always approach this as a debate, as you said, but I think sometimes, it’s just a discussion or someone throwing in their $0.02.


Dude . . . seriously . . . you are infamous as our resident contrarian. You jump into countless threads to be the Devil's Advocate. You are all about debate . . .
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject:

Next up in Twitter and cancel culture?

Mario Lopez. Getting hammered over on Twitter.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mario-lopez-candace-owens-parents-transgender-kids-dangerous-200050915.html?ncid=twitter_yahoolifes_xhb43qbzpzw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject:

How many newspapers have stated that Trump should resign? I can't find any so maybe someone else can.

According to this 115 newspapers wanted Clinton to resign for gak on a dress.

Do we judge the bias in the media, particularly the Republican talking point that the media is liberal, and go by what conservatives say, or by what the media actually does?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject:

So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore


Of course they are, and guess what? If people disagree with your opinion, it is well within their rights to say so and, if they decide to make the effort, to explain why backed by facts.

And if your opinion is unpopular, that means that a whole bunch of people are going to be disagreeing with you. It's your right to stick with that opinion, but if for every person who agrees with you, there are 30 who don't, then maybe it's a good idea to question whether or not your opinion is horribly misguided or just flat out wrong.

If you want to think that KPop sensation MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time, then that's okay, but if you think that nobody is going to argue with you about it, you're delusional.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore


Of course they are, and guess what? If people disagree with your opinion, it is well within their rights to say so and, if they decide to make the effort, to explain why backed by facts.

And if your opinion is unpopular, that means that a whole bunch of people are going to be disagreeing with you. It's your right to stick with that opinion, but if for every person who agrees with you, there are 30 who don't, then maybe it's a good idea to question whether or not your opinion is horribly misguided or just flat out wrong.

If you want to think that KPop sensation MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time, then that's okay, but if you think that nobody is going to argue with you about it, you're delusional.


Wait . . . wait . . . wait . . . what exactly are implying . . .?
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loslakersss
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore


Of course they are, and guess what? If people disagree with your opinion, it is well within their rights to say so and, if they decide to make the effort, to explain why backed by facts.

And if your opinion is unpopular, that means that a whole bunch of people are going to be disagreeing with you. It's your right to stick with that opinion, but if for every person who agrees with you, there are 30 who don't, then maybe it's a good idea to question whether or not your opinion is horribly misguided or just flat out wrong.

If you want to think that KPop sensation MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time, then that's okay, but if you think that nobody is going to argue with you about it, you're delusional.


I'm not saying no one is allowed to disagree but this cancel culture is problematic. I'm never going to agree with everything other people say and I'm expecting others to always agree with me or that my views/opinions are the correct one. But why have we devolved to this "I will never understand" culture which is really just dressing up "i refuse to put any effort into trying to understand another POV".

So if I think MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time that is fine. And if you disagree then let's argue. But don't refuse to have a discussion or even argue with me out some sense of self righteousness. So many people think they're right and that they're smarter than they really are and it's leading to is minds getting more and more closed and lines in the sand getting wider.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Sarah Silverman, on getting booted off of a movie because she made a blackface sketch:

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Silverman, an outspoken supporter of Democratic presidential nominee Bernie Sanders and a frequent critic of President Donald Trump, nonetheless argued against "cancel culture" during the podcast.

"It's like, if you're not on board, if you say the wrong thing, if you had a tweet once ... everyone is, like, throwing the first stone," she said, dubbing the trend "righteousness porn."
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore


Of course they are, and guess what? If people disagree with your opinion, it is well within their rights to say so and, if they decide to make the effort, to explain why backed by facts.

And if your opinion is unpopular, that means that a whole bunch of people are going to be disagreeing with you. It's your right to stick with that opinion, but if for every person who agrees with you, there are 30 who don't, then maybe it's a good idea to question whether or not your opinion is horribly misguided or just flat out wrong.

If you want to think that KPop sensation MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time, then that's okay, but if you think that nobody is going to argue with you about it, you're delusional.


I'm not saying no one is allowed to disagree but this cancel culture is problematic. I'm never going to agree with everything other people say and I'm expecting others to always agree with me or that my views/opinions are the correct one. But why have we devolved to this "I will never understand" culture which is really just dressing up "i refuse to put any effort into trying to understand another POV".

So if I think MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time that is fine. And if you disagree then let's argue. But don't refuse to have a discussion or even argue with me out some sense of self righteousness. So many people think they're right and that they're smarter than they really are and it's leading to is minds getting more and more closed and lines in the sand getting wider.


'Cause we are . . .
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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Jason Isbell

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Sarah Silverman, on getting booted off of a movie because she made a blackface sketch:

Quote:
Silverman, an outspoken supporter of Democratic presidential nominee Bernie Sanders and a frequent critic of President Donald Trump, nonetheless argued against "cancel culture" during the podcast.

"It's like, if you're not on board, if you say the wrong thing, if you had a tweet once ... everyone is, like, throwing the first stone," she said, dubbing the trend "righteousness porn."


Typical AH . .

In the interest of a factually honest description of Silverman's comments, I'll post this:

“I didn’t fight it,” the comedian said in a recent interview.

The comedian noted “I’m not that person anymore” and added, “I understand that it’s never OK.”

“It was so disheartening,” she added. “It just made me real, real sad because I’ve really kind of devoted my life to making it right.”

Silverman expressed regret for the episode in a 2018 GQ profile. “I don’t stand by the blackface sketch. I’m horrified by it, and I can’t erase it,” she said. “I can only be changed by it and move on.”


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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
So no one is allowed to have opinions anymore


Of course they are, and guess what? If people disagree with your opinion, it is well within their rights to say so and, if they decide to make the effort, to explain why backed by facts.

And if your opinion is unpopular, that means that a whole bunch of people are going to be disagreeing with you. It's your right to stick with that opinion, but if for every person who agrees with you, there are 30 who don't, then maybe it's a good idea to question whether or not your opinion is horribly misguided or just flat out wrong.

If you want to think that KPop sensation MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time, then that's okay, but if you think that nobody is going to argue with you about it, you're delusional.


I'm not saying no one is allowed to disagree but this cancel culture is problematic. I'm never going to agree with everything other people say and I'm expecting others to always agree with me or that my views/opinions are the correct one. But why have we devolved to this "I will never understand" culture which is really just dressing up "i refuse to put any effort into trying to understand another POV".

So if I think MC HotDog is the greatest rapper of all time that is fine. And if you disagree then let's argue. But don't refuse to have a discussion or even argue with me out some sense of self righteousness. So many people think they're right and that they're smarter than they really are and it's leading to is minds getting more and more closed and lines in the sand getting wider.


Guilty as charged. I will never understand people who are anti-science. I will never understand hatred and bigotry against an entire ethnicity simply because they are different. I will never understand why people have such low regard for our planet as a home for our children. I will never understand people who make up their own "facts"--or use those from others. I will never understand blatant hypocrisy. I will never understand lying as the first option every time. I will never, ever, EVER understand how a lowlife like Trump receives ~42% favorability ratings. And I will never understand anyone ordering liver at a fine restaurant.
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