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PlantedTanks
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
There should be an argument for putting Killian Hayes #1


What does he have over Ball?


Shooting, shot selection, predictability.


I am not sure about shooting. The one aspect of shooting Ball seems to have is touch from both outside and at the rim. His shot selection will improve and I believe he will be the superior scorer.


I refuse to let LaMelo's hot streak 3pt shooting at NBL as an indicator of shooting.

I disagree about shot selection. For the most part, that almost never changes. He would need a strict coach to tame that.

Much more confident in Killian's scoring abilities next level. Like watching a DLO clone.


It was the impression I got when Ball played for SPIRE that he could change his game to fit with his teammates. From the vids he did not dominate the ball, attempt those 30'+ shots and appeared to play with purpose.

With the right organization and teammates he could develop into a special player.

I like Killian's game a lot more than DLO's. True PG with exceptional vision and passing while DLO for me is s SG who can pass.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
There should be an argument for putting Killian Hayes #1


What does he have over Ball?


Shooting, shot selection, predictability.


I am not sure about shooting. The one aspect of shooting Ball seems to have is touch from both outside and at the rim. His shot selection will improve and I believe he will be the superior scorer.


I refuse to let LaMelo's hot streak 3pt shooting at NBL as an indicator of shooting.

Link: https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/lamelo-ball-1/gamelog/2020/nbl-australia/#pgl_basic::none


I disagree about shot selection. For the most part, that almost never changes. He would need a strict coach to tame that.

Much more confident in Killian's scoring abilities next level. Like watching a DLO clone.


It was the impression I got when Ball played for SPIRE that he could change his game to fit with his teammates. From the vids he did not dominate the ball, attempt those 30'+ shots and appeared to play with purpose.

With the right organization and teammates he could develop into a special player.

I like Killian's game a lot more than DLO's. True PG with exceptional vision and passing while DLO for me is s SG who can pass.


It's not the shot volume I was concerned about. SPIRE needed him to do that. NBL didn't, so he didn't. But the shot quality for the volume he took, wasn't great at all.

LaMelo is a tall PG. Not great burst, great in transition/chaotic basketball. Lots of off balance shots, capable of some shake but not real blow by. If you're an NBA defender, you let him shoot.

Killian, you have to defend the shot and the pass. Killian isn't LaMelo's level of vision passing, but he's not THAT far behind. Unlike LaMelo, you need to defend that shot, and he's capable of getting a lot of soft touch floaters in the paint, just like DLO.

Killian can score easily in the half court. LaMelo? You NEED to run him off screens and let him play 2 basically. Then it becomes a roster/system fit issue. Is that the best way to play him? Optimize LaMelo's scoring? I don't think so. At least with Zo, he played like a 2 anyway and had WAY better shot selection out of UCLA AND had the vision AND the defense + burst.

Melo has the better handle/layup package. That's it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject:

About Hagans

Good athlete, quick/burst

Doesn't really change directions except for an avg behind the back handle

Opts for floaters

More comfortable midrange/floaters than outside of 17'

Short range passer, 15' and in, more like dump off situations.

All reads like a 2 playing 1 but without the great shooting behind the arc, or tremendous shake.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Watched multiple games of Arkansas this year and Isaiah Joe just did not move the needle. He would occasionally flash but seemed to disappear for most of the game.

This may have been due to the offensive scheme where Mason Jones at times dominated the ball but his play was disappointing.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Watched multiple games of Arkansas this year and Isaiah Joe just did not move the needle. He would occasionally flash but seemed to disappear for most of the game.

This may have been due to the offensive scheme where Mason Jones at times dominated the ball but his play was disappointing.


He was placed as more of a wing role and not counted on as an initiator like prior.

Even then, Isaiah has flashed enough for me, and brings instant gravity. Last year was an injury plagued year.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:24 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Oscar Tshiebwe will return for his sophomore season, withdrawing from the NBA Draft process, he announced on Sunday evening.




Back to Indy! Final 4 or bust!
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject:

Noting the last draft that was called weak was 2016. Turns out there were a good number of high caliber picks, as there almost always are.

Quote:

Simmons
Siakam (27)
Ingram
Brown
Murray
Hield
Sabonis
Brogdon
LeVert (20)
Beasley
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Noted weak because a lot of those guys needed years to develop.

Ingram
Brown
Siakam
Brogdon
LeVert
Beasley
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:08 am    Post subject:

Good point. Relative strength of a draft often impacted by the readiness of guys to contribute sooner.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Young guys who intrigue me and may be available at #29:

Aleksej Pokusevski
Tyrell Terry
Leandro Bolmaro
Devon Dotson

Older guys who intrigue me and may be available ar #29:

Grant Riller
Desmond Bane
Killian Tillie
Tyler Bey
Xavier Tillman

I think that's it unless someone falls unexpectedly. Young guys like Jaden McDaniels, Nico Mannion, Isaiah Stewart, Vernon Carey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, and Precious Achiuwa aren't worth a guaranteed four years, imo.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject:

I look at the strength of a draft based on the players potential long term outcome and this year looks strong in this respect.

Except for a few players in each draft it is unrealistic to expect tangible contribution from the majority of drafted players given their under developed physical stature and skills.
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Young guys who intrigue me and may be available at #29:

Aleksej Pokusevski
Tyrell Terry
Leandro Bolmaro
Devon Dotson


I've got Poku up to edge lottery and Bolmaro mid 1st.

I pass on Terry.


Quote:
Older guys who intrigue me and may be available ar #29:

Grant Riller
Desmond Bane
Killian Tillie
Tyler Bey
Xavier Tillman


Riller, Tillman

Bane

Tillie - too injury prone but has the right skillset.

Tyler Bey mid 2nd round.

Quote:
I think that's it unless someone falls unexpectedly. Young guys like Jaden McDaniels, Nico Mannion, Isaiah Stewart, Vernon Carey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, and Precious Achiuwa aren't worth a guaranteed four years, imo.


Nico, maybe McDaniels, and that's roughly it? I'm questionable on a lot of bigs.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Young guys who intrigue me and may be available at #29:

Aleksej Pokusevski
Tyrell Terry
Leandro Bolmaro
Devon Dotson


I've got Poku up to edge lottery and Bolmaro mid 1st.

I pass on Terry.


Quote:
Older guys who intrigue me and may be available ar #29:

Grant Riller
Desmond Bane
Killian Tillie
Tyler Bey
Xavier Tillman


Riller, Tillman

Bane

Tillie - too injury prone but has the right skillset.

Tyler Bey mid 2nd round.

Quote:
I think that's it unless someone falls unexpectedly. Young guys like Jaden McDaniels, Nico Mannion, Isaiah Stewart, Vernon Carey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, and Precious Achiuwa aren't worth a guaranteed four years, imo.


Nico, maybe McDaniels, and that's roughly it? I'm questionable on a lot of bigs.

Terry may be too small to make it, but the shooting profile is sexy for his age and his nose for steals could make him a non-zero on defense. I'd easily take him at #29.

Any team that drafts Tillie is going to have to be invested in load management for a 22-year-old backup big, but 4-6 incomplete seasons of Tillie could yield more value than younger guys inevitably drafted ahead of him who give you two contracts worth of negative value based on dreams of potential. But I would rate Riller and Bane ahead of him... Tillman I'm less sure of, but they're close.

Tyler Bey > Saddiq Bey, imo.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject:

I don't buy the shooting profile for Terry, because it's based on the idea that he can get open.

If he had Trae young handles, or some elite first step, then sure. But, that's not who he is, so play him off ball and run him through screens?

I can't with that.

As for Tillie, I'm okay with load managing a rotation player that plays half the season. He may not be a shotblocker, but he's 100% a unicorn. Switchable, verticality, and has a 3pt shot.

I don't buy Tyler Bey because he's a wing that barely shows the jumper and is playing 4. Saddiq, at least played against wings.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:24 pm    Post subject:

Tyrell Terry weaknesses vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGkswDtSl8
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:54 pm    Post subject:

Aleksej Pokusevski is starting to win me over. I did not see any standout skill to his game at first glance but he has many of the quiet skills that makes him a really nice fit with any team.

Besides being 7'+ with very good length he stands out with his vision/passing, ball handling and agility/coordination. Shows a developing 3pt shot and being a weak side help defender with timing as a shot blocker.

I don't believe he will ever be a force in the paint as he does not have the lower base to anchor.

I feel he is one of those who would have benefited from either a pro day or working out with individual teams and possibly elevated into a clear lottery pick.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:41 am    Post subject:

I have Jahmi'us Ramsey between 25-35 and I know the media experts have him considerably higher but I just did not see lottery level talent.

Yes he can shoot but he creates his shot moving side to side or step backs. Never really saw him create going to the basket or be able to break his defender down.

Don't believe he will standout defensively as he appears to have average length and not much flexibilty in his body movements.

He appears physically developed so not expecting much future gains there so much depends on development of his handles and learning how to become a better scorer. Can he be a CJ McCollum type player?

Not a lottery player for me but I would be fine if the Lakers drafted him.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:06 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Aleksej Pokusevski is starting to win me over. I did not see any standout skill to his game at first glance but he has many of the quiet skills that makes him a really nice fit with any team.

Besides being 7'+ with very good length he stands out with his vision/passing, ball handling and agility/coordination. Shows a developing 3pt shot and being a weak side help defender with timing as a shot blocker.

I don't believe he will ever be a force in the paint as he does not have the lower base to anchor.

I feel he is one of those who would have benefited from either a pro day or working out with individual teams and possibly elevated into a clear lottery pick.


He's such a long term project, but this is a projection based on biometrics, role, and play over stats.

Frankly, I don't want him to be a paint player.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
I have Jahmi'us Ramsey between 25-35 and I know the media experts have him considerably higher but I just did not see lottery level talent.

Yes he can shoot but he creates his shot moving side to side or step backs. Never really saw him create going to the basket or be able to break his defender down.

Don't believe he will standout defensively as he appears to have average length and not much flexibilty in his body movements.

He appears physically developed so not expecting much future gains there so much depends on development of his handles and learning how to become a better scorer. Can he be a CJ McCollum type player?

Not a lottery player for me but I would be fine if the Lakers drafted him.


I'm anti Ramsey. He has strong pull up jumper indicators but CJ McCollum showed much more advanced skill with his handle. But, McCollum was elite in all sorts of shooting types, not just pull ups.

I actually have Ramsey 2nd round, if that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject:

this is not a very deep class. there are about 12 pros and i think there are only 4 players with star potential - lamelo ball, anthony edwards, deni avdija, and aaron nesmith. bolmaro may have a shot here too.

reggie perry with our pick. everyone else mocked in the 25+ range sucks. you could talk me into paul reed or xavier tillman as rotation bigs, but i'd be depressed if we used a first rounder on either of them.

anfernee mclemore as UDFA.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
this is not a very deep class. there are about 12 pros and i think there are only 4 players with star potential - lamelo ball, anthony edwards, deni avdija, and aaron nesmith. bolmaro may have a shot here too.

reggie perry with our pick. everyone else mocked in the 25+ range sucks. you could talk me into paul reed or xavier tillman as rotation bigs, but i'd be depressed if we used a first rounder on either of them.

anfernee mclemore as UDFA.


I just want Isaiah Joe at 25. If there's a 2nd rounder, Lamine Diane. Agreed about McLemore.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
this is not a very deep class. there are about 12 pros and i think there are only 4 players with star potential - lamelo ball, anthony edwards, deni avdija, and aaron nesmith. bolmaro may have a shot here too.

reggie perry with our pick. everyone else mocked in the 25+ range sucks. you could talk me into paul reed or xavier tillman as rotation bigs, but i'd be depressed if we used a first rounder on either of them.

anfernee mclemore as UDFA.


I just want Isaiah Joe at 25. If there's a 2nd rounder, Lamine Diane. Agreed about McLemore.


one other note on this draft. isaac okoro is one of the most obvious busts i’ve seen and anyone who thinks he is a lottery pick should never do draft evaluations again. flat out. he is not good at defense and his offense is completely rudimentary. he’s not even that good an athlete. just completely mind boggling t hat he’s a consensus lottery guy.

Achiuwa is worth a pick, knows what he is - makes good contact on picks and has good understanding of finding space and passing windows as a roll big, and finishes nicely around the rim. has decent enough handle and shooting form to project some skills. some montrezl in him but not as fluid an athlete. but i would bet that he sticks in the league.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Yeah I'm not high on Okoro at all. Kind of shocked DT is so high on him.

Not really high on Achuiwa but at least I get it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject:

call me crazy but after watching a ton of full games of the top prospects, i think aaron nesmith should be the #1 pick. the guy knows how to move off ball, his shooting stroke is nasty off movement and off the bounce, and he has some post and shot fake and go creation ability.

his team defensive awareness is good too. the size, length, instincts, off ball movement and dynamic shotmaking all project to the next level in a way that is more concrete than any other lottery prospect imo.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject:

Reggie Perry is legit. DT mostly has him 2nd round because of decision making, like Randle level TOs. I don't even care that he's not even really an explosive athlete. It's a weak draft and he's legit.
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