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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53770
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 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Durant goes down late in the 3rd quarter of Game 5 of the 2019 Finals. Series is tied 2-2. Durants injury will keep him out of the rest of the series. If there was ever a moment for Harden to take advantage: this is it. He scored 5 points in the 4th quarter of that game. 5 points. On 3 shots. They lost the following game as well. |
Durant went down and GS was “only” left with Steph, Klay, Green and Iggy. Dang. 
He had 35 in the elimination game, which they lost to a clearly better team that went 6 in the Finals despite losing Durant and Klay. |
Oh. I didn’t realize he was forced to take 3 shots in the 4th when GS’ best player went down. Hate when that happens! |
I never said Harden was great in every game. I said over the last 8 years he clearly lost to a superior team, aside from two times. This is common. It’s extremely rare for one to win a title on a team that’s clearly less talented. Unless you are disputing that GS was not a clearly superior team I’m not sure what we are debating.
Harden isn’t good enough to beat a superior team with less help. We have only seen someone win like that 3 or 4 times since the 80’s. |
It’s rare to have a player that is great in every game. But that was sort of an important game to show up for. And it wasn’t an isolated incident. I suspect as a fan of the Rockets you know about his playoff shortcomings more than most. Giving him a pass for poor performances just because he didn’t always have the best team doesn’t pass the smell test. If he had a history of performing at a high level in these moments he wouldn’t have the reputation he has, even if he never won a ring.
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26288
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: |
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In the elimination games where it matters or he's had a chance to take his team over the top or win Harden has come up short.
When KD went down, any excuse the Rockets had for why they'd lose to the Warriors "oh they just had so much more talent" wasn't a factor. Series was tied 2-2 BEFORE Durant went down, so I don't wanna hear any excuses about the Warriors being so overpowered and better.
If that was the case the series isn't tied 2-2 it would have been over in a sweep or it would have been 3-1 going into that game at the very least.
Fact is series was tied 2-2, Durant went down. Harden had a chance to eliminate the Warriors, but came up short again as he usually did. And his record in elimination games leaves a lot to be desired. Harden just doesn't have "it" when it matters the most. You could trace it back to him choking in the Finals with OKC but the excuse was "he was young and wasn't ready" but it's been a consistent thing over and over and over again.
Let's look at the OKC vs Houston series when he first started being "the man" in Houston.
They lost in 6 games. They lost Games 2 and 3 by 3 points...
In Game 2 Harden went 36/11/6 but on 37% from the field and 14% from three. So how did he get 35 points? He shot 20 free throws.
In Game 3 Harden had 30 but on 40% from the field and 25% from three.
In Game 4 the Rockets won by 2... but it wasn't because of Harden... he came up short again with 15 points on 33% field Goal and 0% from three. The only reason they won that game was because of Chandler Parsons bailing them out.
So just keep in mind, in a series with two games decided by 3 points in a 6 game series, Harden averaged 26/6/4 on 39% from the field and 34% from three. Had Harden played up to what he did during the regular season the Rockets could have taken that series 7 or even potentially won it.
The point is he had his opportunities. But came up short.
but that was the first time he had his own team right?
How about the next season when they got beat by Portland in 6 Games? Was Portland overpowered too?
Game 1 the Rockets lost by 2... Harden shot 28% from the field and 21% from three.....
And for that entire series Harden averaged 26/6/4 but on 37% Field Goal and 29% from three.
Once again, they had their chances, and Harden came up short dropping off in efficiency tremendously.
Alright how about his next attempt was vs the Warriors which he actually had a solid series, shooting 50% from the field and 48% from three across 4 games. Each game was close they lost by 4 in game 1 and 1 in game 2.
They went back to Golden State down 3-1 and Harden shot 18% from the field and 0% from three in 43 minutes played scoring only 14 points. But the rest of the series he was fine. So people expected he may have turned some kind of corner barring his Game 5 performance.
Alright so the next season, it was Harden and Dwight vs Steph and Klay. Looking for revenge. Instead they got destroyed in 5 games.
Harden's production once again dropped to 41% from the field and 31% from three.
So the next season they go up against the Spurs. They go down in 6 and Harden averaged 24/4/9 but on 41% from the field and 30% from three.
This was vs the Kawhi and Aldridge Spurs. Spurs were the better team. But it wasn't overwhelming superstar odds either.
So next time...vs the Warriors, the 7 game series. The main point of this one was Game 7. Where the Rockets lost by 9 while Harden shot 2-13 from three on 15%. This is the same series he went 0-11 from three in a game the Rockets wound up winning. But his Game 7 performance is when the narrative that he can't get the job done really started sticking hard, and he hasn't been able to shake it.
Coming up short the next season vs the Warriors with the series tied 2-2 with Durant going down but then still losing the next 2 games only added the icing on top of what had already been building.
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | In the elimination games where it matters or he's had a chance to take his team over the top or win Harden has come up short. |
Against clearly superior teams. The same goes for every player not named LeBron vs GS, and even he only went 1-3 against them. And he barely beat them.
| MJST wrote: | | When KD went down, any excuse the Rockets had for why they'd lose to the Warriors "oh they just had so much more talent" wasn't a factor. Series was tied 2-2 BEFORE Durant went down, so I don't wanna hear any excuses about the Warriors being so overpowered and better. |
Even though they clearly were?  It's a series, and the best team gets 4 wins the majority of the time. This isn't football.
| MJST wrote: | | If that was the case the series isn't tied 2-2 it would have been over in a sweep or it would have been 3-1 going into that game at the very least. |
False. We took your title team to 7 games minus Yao and T-Mac. Did y'all not clearly have a better team?
| MJST wrote: | | Fact is series was tied 2-2, Durant went down. Harden had a chance to eliminate the Warriors, but came up short again as he usually did. |
Similar to every player not named LeBron...once.
| MJST wrote: | | And his record in elimination games leaves a lot to be desired. |
His record vs superteams in elimination games mirrors ever other player in the league during that span, not named LeBron.
| MJST wrote: | | Let's look at the OKC vs Houston series when he first started being "the man" in Houston. |
The year where he had Jeremy Lin and Parsons....vs the 60 win Thunder?  OKC was up 3-0 that series.
| MJST wrote: | | The point is he had his opportunities. But came up short. |
Please list the players that didn't come up short vs GS? LeBron, and....
As far as the rest of your post, I noted he choked vs Portland and SA. Flame away on those.
| MJST wrote: | | Alright so the next season, it was Harden and Dwight vs Steph and Klay. Looking for revenge. Instead they got destroyed in 5 games. |
They got destroyed...by a 73 win team. You also left off another All NBA 2nd team and All D 1st team player in Green. And that Iggy guy. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it.
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“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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fansincemagic
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11051
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it. |
We need a rim protecting big in the post to block those off topic posts from this thread. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it. |
We need a rim protecting big in the post to block those off topic posts from this thread. |
Haha... I’m dead.
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“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it. |
We need a rim protecting big in the post to block those off topic posts from this thread. |
Very nice, very nice!! |
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ThePageDude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2571
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it. |
We need a rim protecting big in the post to block those off topic posts from this thread. |
Haha... I’m dead. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Not sure what’s going on here in the FREE AGENT thread, but I’m certainly enjoying it. |
Isn't this the de facto general basketball thread when free agency isn't cooking?
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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MakeRocketsGreatAgain.net.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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The three superstars looking great together ...
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... |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46613
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | The three superstars looking great together ...
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Scary hours 😱 |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | drae wrote: | The three superstars looking great together ...
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Scary hours 😱 |
Why have a Kyrie when you can have a Sexton |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4372
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MakeRocketsGreatAgain.net. |
The excuses made for Harden as a Rocket in this thread are borderline hilarious at times. It's like reading a good old classic QFTOS. Doesn't even realize how delusional some of these excuses are.  |
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mintberrycrunch
Rookie
Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MakeRocketsGreatAgain.net. |
The excuses made for Harden as a Rocket in this thread are borderline hilarious at times. It's like reading a good old classic QFTOS. Doesn't even realize how delusional some of these excuses are. |
It's mainly just coming from one person |
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3185
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mintberrycrunch wrote: | | hype wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MakeRocketsGreatAgain.net. |
The excuses made for Harden as a Rocket in this thread are borderline hilarious at times. It's like reading a good old classic QFTOS. Doesn't even realize how delusional some of these excuses are. |
It's mainly just coming from one person |
I've noticed most Harden fans are like that. They regurgitate the same narrative of 'superior competition' and never acknowledge Harden's poor performance or roster demands as part of the problem.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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carjoch831
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019
Posts: 951
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Houston has agreed to a deal to acquire talented 2019 first-round pick Kevin Porter Jr. from Cleveland, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. |
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LakersMD
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 8014
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| carjoch831 wrote: | | Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Houston has agreed to a deal to acquire talented 2019 first-round pick Kevin Porter Jr. from Cleveland, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. |
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Hope he gets his mind right |
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panamaniac
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Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11238
Location: PTY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The thing with Harden is he can't replicate his regular season numbers in the postseason. For all the analytics slurping, once you strip away (no pun intended) all the veneer (i.e. whistles & flops) you get what he is; a really inefficient chucker. |
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | carjoch831 wrote: | | Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Houston has agreed to a deal to acquire talented 2019 first-round pick Kevin Porter Jr. from Cleveland, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. |
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Hope he gets his mind right |
John Lucas...get to work.
These are the type of low risk/high reward moves the team should make, as it tanks. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46613
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you say yes if the Bucks call and offer Giannis for AD? |
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MookieBetts50
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 1943
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Do you say yes if the Bucks call and offer Giannis for AD? |
Yessir!!
Younger, more durable and aggressive is Freak over AD. |
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troy
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 4973
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Kieff for Javele McGee needs to happen. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | | Kieff for Javele McGee needs to happen. |
What in the?
And you can't trade back for JAV this season.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22303
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | | Kieff for Javele McGee needs to happen. |
lol |
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