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lakersken80
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Pow Gasol wrote: | forget that! where's my high speed train to Vegas??!!  |
exactly.
the high speed train needs to go from SF to LA to Diego/Laughlin/Vegas, phoenix AZ. |
Exactly. Madera to Baskersfield. Who really wants that? What use is that? |
They are starting construction in the middle of nowhere to qualify it for federal dollars. |
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C M B
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of how much it costs it's a (bleep) shame that a rathole like China has had trains like this for years and we don't.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Pow Gasol wrote: | | forget that! where's my high speed train to Vegas??!! |
exactly.
the high speed train needs to go from SF to LA to Diego/Laughlin/Vegas, phoenix AZ. |
Exactly. Madera to Baskersfield. Who really wants that? What use is that? |
They are starting construction in the middle of nowhere to qualify it for federal dollars. |
They're getting like 3.3 billion from the Feds on a project that costs 100 billion. Still seems really dumb. |
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TooCool
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Location: Monrovia, California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:08 am Post subject: |
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They should have worked on this sooner... much sooner...
As a kid, I was already dreaming of a "quick" trip up north to watch the Lakers destroy the Warriors and Kings up north.
Imagine a road trip up there by train that only takes an hour! Now by the time they finish, we're all probably old and dead.
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methdxman
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Location: Los Angeles/Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Good things must always come to an end... as an American I'm not sad to see the U.S. take a back seat to the rest of the world, but it was good while it lasted. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| TooCool wrote: | They should have worked on this sooner... much sooner...
As a kid, I was already dreaming of a "quick" trip up north to watch the Lakers destroy the Warriors and Kings up north.
Imagine a road trip up there by train that only takes an hour! Now by the time they finish, we're all probably old and dead. |
Not even a Maglev train can get to the Bay Area in an hour....
The one in Shanghai averages 165mph after acceleration and deceleration.
Only way to get to those towns that fast is by plane, its too bad that the TSA has pretty much killed any convenience by air travel. Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if there was TSA presence at the high speed rails if it ever does get built. The high speed railroad would be seen as another high value terror target. |
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waterman40
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Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:24 am Post subject: |
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State has way too many problems to be taking this kind of project on.
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methdxman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | State has way too many problems to be taking this kind of project on. |
It will be good for the economy. It's called infrastructure investment.
It's better to investment in something like this than paying cops 100,000 a year. |
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999
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Regardless of how much it costs it's a (bleep) shame that a rathole like China has had trains like this for years and we don't. |
This |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Hammett wrote: | It'll never get built.
Our country will be in the toilet by 2030. |
Either that or speaking Chinese ........ |
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tlim
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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You know, these same types of arguments were made when our highways and freeways were built.
Can't afford them, too expensive. We're in a depression, why are we doing this now?
The answer is: it helps with California's GDP. That investment creates a multiplier effect, assuming most of the money stays in the state. That $8B will translate into probably around $64B in GDP change alone. And that's without the changes in the cities that it goes by.
As for going over budget, have you not seen contractors for private things go way over budget, all the time?
I'd say, take a wait and see attitude. Deal with our other fiscal problems but looking towards the future seriously is not a problem. |
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tttppp
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | You know, these same types of arguments were made when our highways and freeways were built.
Can't afford them, too expensive. We're in a depression, why are we doing this now?
The answer is: it helps with California's GDP. That investment creates a multiplier effect, assuming most of the money stays in the state. That $8B will translate into probably around $64B in GDP change alone. And that's without the changes in the cities that it goes by.
As for going over budget, have you not seen contractors for private things go way over budget, all the time?
I'd say, take a wait and see attitude. Deal with our other fiscal problems but looking towards the future seriously is not a problem. |
Any investment that take 20 years to build should yield some spectacular techonology we don't already have. My guess is, by the time this is built, 2030-2040, it will probably be using 1980s technology. |
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tttppp
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | State has way too many problems to be taking this kind of project on. |
It's better to investment in something like this than paying cops 100,000 a year. |
I can't argue with that. |
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20,000
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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A bunch of Chinamen laid down all the transcontinental rail lines in the 1800s in a matter of minutes and this will take 20+ years?
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tlim
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Dude, don't disrespect us Chinese by calling us Chinamen. It's derogatory.
And come on guys. We all know why it takes a lot longer these days. It's the cities who are infighting about where it should go.
Rich cities and areas don't want it to come close to them and they file legal actions like nobody's business.
This is why in China, things happen quickly, but to the detriment of a great number of people (and yes, the rich lobby their way to make it so that trains don't come near them). |
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tttppp
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | A bunch of Chinamen laid down all the transcontinental rail lines in the 1800s in a matter of minutes and this will take 20+ years? |
The same problem exists with roads today. Hitler built roads more efficiently than we do today. Thats really said. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| How is this rail system better, more efficient, more convenient, less disruptive or better in any way than a cheap 40 minute flight? |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | A bunch of Chinamen laid down all the transcontinental rail lines in the 1800s in a matter of minutes and this will take 20+ years? |
You have red tape, bureaucracy, environmental studies and people that need to get paid in the right places to get stuff done nowadays. Not to mention back then the US when the railroad was built, most cities weren't even established so there was less local governments to deal with. Back then you just hired people and start building.
Last edited by lakersken80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | Dude, don't disrespect us Chinese by calling us Chinamen. It's derogatory.
And come on guys. We all know why it takes a lot longer these days. It's the cities who are infighting about where it should go.
Rich cities and areas don't want it to come close to them and they file legal actions like nobody's business.
This is why in China, things happen quickly, but to the detriment of a great number of people (and yes, the rich lobby their way to make it so that trains don't come near them). |
I know where I live, they were holding meetings to discuss where to put the route for the HSR....now imagine them doing that for all cities throughout the entire HSR route in California....it will take years to get that resolved. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Regardless of how much it costs it's a (bleep) shame that a rathole like China has had trains like this for years and we don't. |
China had no prior infrastructure so they could build from the ground up. Where as here in the US you already have established infrastructure in place so getting stuff like this done would mean tons of disruptions. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | How is this rail system better, more efficient, more convenient, less disruptive or better in any way than a cheap 40 minute flight? |
It isn't more efficient than an airplane....
Your average 737 travels cruises at 500 mph nowadays.
The problem is that many of the cities have stopped airports such as LAX from expanding capacity because residents near the airport don't want to deal with more noise and traffic. Of course most of airports were already well established before many of the residents moved into the area.
So HSR was conceived as an idea to relieve congestion from airports and roads. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | How is this rail system better, more efficient, more convenient, less disruptive or better in any way than a cheap 40 minute flight? |
It isn't more efficient than an airplane....
Your average 737 travels cruises at 500 mph nowadays.
The problem is that many of the cities have stopped airports such as LAX from expanding capacity because residents near the airport don't want to deal with more noise and traffic. Of course most of airports were already well established before many of the residents moved into the area.
So HSR was conceived as an idea to relieve congestion from airports and roads. |
How is HSR more efficient than an airplane? The projected fares are higher than airfare and the travel time is longer? As a travller, why would I choose HSR?
It seems that bulldozing a path from LA to SF would be a tad more intrusive to residents than would expanding the airports which are much more efficient. Oh, and it could be done in years rather than decades at a fraction of the cost. Fast, cheap, efficient, logical, less intrusive...
Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | How is this rail system better, more efficient, more convenient, less disruptive or better in any way than a cheap 40 minute flight? |
It isn't more efficient than an airplane....
Your average 737 travels cruises at 500 mph nowadays.
The problem is that many of the cities have stopped airports such as LAX from expanding capacity because residents near the airport don't want to deal with more noise and traffic. Of course most of airports were already well established before many of the residents moved into the area.
So HSR was conceived as an idea to relieve congestion from airports and roads. |
It seems that bulldozing a path from LA to SF would be a tad more intrusive to residents than would expanding the airports which are much more efficient. Oh, and it could be done in years rather than decades at a fraction of the cost. Fast, cheap, efficient, logical, less intrusive... |
True, but the developers bought up all the land around the airports and built homes around it. People moved into the homes around the airport because it was cheaper because of the noise but now they complain that its too loud....  |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Grab a map of CA and try to pencil out a path that would allow HSR to connect the populations of LA and SF. Then estimate how many residents will have their homes bulldozed. Then estimate how many people will remain but be impacted by noise along the route. Then figure the costs associated with reconnecting severed roads, navigating around existing structures, freeways, train tracks... Imagine the political battles amongst different neighborhoods arguing against tearing down their neighborhood in favor of making the route a block or two over... This is not a 20 years 20 billion dollar project. It is a poorly planned, illconceived scam right out of the Simpsons. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Grab a map of CA and try to pencil out a path that would allow HSR to connect the populations of LA and SF. Then estimate how many residents will have their homes bulldozed. Then estimate how many people will remain but be impacted by noise along the route. Then figure the costs associated with reconnecting severed roads, navigating around existing structures, freeways, train tracks... Imagine the political battles amongst different neighborhoods arguing against tearing down their neighborhood in favor of making the route a block or two over... This is not a 20 years 20 billion dollar project. It is a poorly planned, illconceived scam right out of the Simpsons. |
They can't even get the extension for the 710 to connect to the 210, but they are somehow going to manage to connect HSR from Sacramento all the way down to San Diego... |
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