California High Speed Rail is a go!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rwongega
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 20510
Location: UCLA -> NY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
Regardless of how much it costs it's a (bleep) shame that a rathole like China has had trains like this for years and we don't.


Give it a few years. When China starts to call on the debts the US owes, they'll be owning rails in the US in no time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Grab a map of CA and try to pencil out a path that would allow HSR to connect the populations of LA and SF. Then estimate how many residents will have their homes bulldozed. Then estimate how many people will remain but be impacted by noise along the route. Then figure the costs associated with reconnecting severed roads, navigating around existing structures, freeways, train tracks... Imagine the political battles amongst different neighborhoods arguing against tearing down their neighborhood in favor of making the route a block or two over... This is not a 20 years 20 billion dollar project. It is a poorly planned, illconceived scam right out of the Simpsons.


They can't even get the extension for the 710 to connect to the 210, but they are somehow going to manage to connect HSR from Sacramento all the way down to San Diego...
Exactly. The 710 extension has been talked about for decades. It would provide a much needed route connecting the LB harbor to the San G Valley and provide a direct route rather than the terrible choice of surface streets or freeways taking you 25 miles out of the way. That extension has been approved and is beyond necessary, but has been successfully blocked by a relatively small number of residents using the same tactics that can be employed by residents impacted by the rail line. HSR is a completely fantastical idea that has insurmountable obstacles standing in it's way. HSR in a vacuum is a wonderful idea with no practical way to carve a path through the expensive sprawl of California.

Pure speculation on my part, but it would seem more plausible to sink a rail line tube in the ocean, or tunnel under somehom like they did with BART...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Grab a map of CA and try to pencil out a path that would allow HSR to connect the populations of LA and SF. Then estimate how many residents will have their homes bulldozed. Then estimate how many people will remain but be impacted by noise along the route. Then figure the costs associated with reconnecting severed roads, navigating around existing structures, freeways, train tracks... Imagine the political battles amongst different neighborhoods arguing against tearing down their neighborhood in favor of making the route a block or two over... This is not a 20 years 20 billion dollar project. It is a poorly planned, illconceived scam right out of the Simpsons.


They can't even get the extension for the 710 to connect to the 210, but they are somehow going to manage to connect HSR from Sacramento all the way down to San Diego...
Exactly. The 710 extension has been talked about for decades. It would provide a much needed route connecting the LB harbor to the San G Valley and provide a direct route rather than the terrible choice of surface streets or freeways taking you 25 miles out of the way. That extension has been approved and is beyond necessary, but has been successfully blocked by a relatively small number of residents using the same tactics that can be employed by residents impacted by the rail line. HSR is a completely fantastical idea that has insurmountable obstacles standing in it's way. HSR in a vacuum is a wonderful idea with no practical way to carve a path through the expensive sprawl of California.

Pure speculation on my part, but it would seem more plausible to sink a rail line tube in the ocean, or tunnel under somehom like they did with BART...


It would probably be cheaper since they wouldn't have to buy land from private homeowners along the path...of course the downside would that it would probably just be a straight shot from San Francisco to Los Angeles and maybe San Diego...if they built it like the Transbay Tube where they built the the tunnel on land and sunk it on the ocean it could be done without a lot of the headaches from the local government.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Hammett
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 9310

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
Regardless of how much it costs it's a (bleep) shame that a rathole like China has had trains like this for years and we don't.


No kidding. Japan's train system is really cool, too.
_________________
Lakers. Built different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tlim
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 6648

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject:

Let's not fully criticize until we see the plan. I do know that they expect to get to union station. In order to do that, they could either use some existing lines, or tunnel underneath something. Putting the entire line above ground and buying land would be insane in LA.

Taipei did it by having them underground because it's so populated above it.

As for efficiency, current rail systems cost 1 gallon of gas to move 1 ton of product 600 miles. I'd like to see the specs for HSR as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
Let's not fully criticize until we see the plan. I do know that they expect to get to union station. In order to do that, they could either use some existing lines, or tunnel underneath something. Putting the entire line above ground and buying land would be insane in LA.

Taipei did it by having them underground because it's so populated above it.

As for efficiency, current rail systems cost 1 gallon of gas to move 1 ton of product 600 miles. I'd like to see the specs for HSR as well.

Rail is extremely efficient, but dropping a rail line connecting LA to SF seems almost impossible. I would love to know what the plan is before we allocate 10s of Billions of dollars and start laying track out in the middle of nowhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
Let's not fully criticize until we see the plan. I do know that they expect to get to union station. In order to do that, they could either use some existing lines, or tunnel underneath something. Putting the entire line above ground and buying land would be insane in LA.

Taipei did it by having them underground because it's so populated above it.

As for efficiency, current rail systems cost 1 gallon of gas to move 1 ton of product 600 miles. I'd like to see the specs for HSR as well.


Except the public got sold on the "plan" would only cost $35.9 billion for the rail from San Francisco to Anaheim, and would be finished by 2020....
The goal posts keep moving, so don't be surprised by the criticism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject:

Interesting article on the LA Times about the HSR, looks like its being designed by special interests and not taking input from experts in the field...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rail-advice-20120709,0,4539140.story?page=1&track=rss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LAkers 4 Life
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject:

Pow Gasol wrote:
forget that! where's my high speed train to Vegas??!!


I remember many years ago Amtrak had a proposed LA to Vegas route, and Vegas was gonna foot a big part of the bill, but I think it was quashed when neighboring counties complained that they wanted routes too and everyone backed out from all the headaches from the whining.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TNLakersFanInLA
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 9657
Location: Chattanooga, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject:

This
_________________
Monta Ellis: "Kobe is #1, I'm #2, LeBron is #3."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject:

TNLakersFanInLA wrote:
This


The shared tracks is a reason why this thing is doomed to failed.
You are talking about sharing the same tracks that run Metrolink, Union Pacific, among others....not only is that a safety hazard but it would not be really high speed rail at the end of the day.
Plus no electrification in the central valley?
How do they plan to get this thing to 200mph, thru hopes and dreams???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tttppp
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
TNLakersFanInLA wrote:
This


The shared tracks is a reason why this thing is doomed to failed.
You are talking about sharing the same tracks that run Metrolink, Union Pacific, among others....not only is that a safety hazard but it would not be really high speed rail at the end of the day.
Plus no electrification in the central valley?
How do they plan to get this thing to 200mph, thru hopes and dreams???


So its another slow speed rail?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GonzagaAlum
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 3021

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject:

as people have pointed out... the massive population centers make this an awful idea.

Vegas to Anaheim probably would be the best plausible high speed line. You would have people from Vegas wanting to do Disneyland, Knotts, and even renting cars when they get into the area to head to San Diego/LA. You would also have people from the same areas heading out to Vegas. There is tons of empty space. You practically can get all the way to around 20 miles from OC if you play your cards right without really demolishing anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject:

GonzagaAlum wrote:
as people have pointed out... the massive population centers make this an awful idea.

Vegas to Anaheim probably would be the best plausible high speed line. You would have people from Vegas wanting to do Disneyland, Knotts, and even renting cars when they get into the area to head to San Diego/LA. You would also have people from the same areas heading out to Vegas. There is tons of empty space. You practically can get all the way to around 20 miles from OC if you play your cards right without really demolishing anything.


The problem with the Vegas to OC line is that it benefits Vegas more than Socal....thats why it will never get built with state funds. There is a bigger population to draw from in the LA metropolitan area than there is from the Las Vegas area.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
methdxman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6879
Location: Los Angeles/Barcelona

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject:

All the naysayers and chickens in here are the reason why USA is no longer number one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger Reply with quote
OshadowO
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject:

It's already way over budget and it's probably going to cost twice as much by the time it's done if it's done. With the myriad of self-imposed regulations and all the nimby-ism this thing is gonna face it's just not gonna happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject:

methdxman wrote:
All the naysayers and chickens in here are the reason why USA is no longer number one.


The problem with the plan for high speed rail is that it is anything but...
The politicians have taken a great idea and hijacked it.
If you take a careful look at it, it is not even using the latest in rail technology....If you are going to spend billions of dollars of public money, I would hope they would use something newer than technology from the 1960's..
Other countries are moving towards utilizing maglev trains, this high speed rail is going to use existing rail lines...that is a terrible idea since they are poorly maintained and not suited for high speed rail travel....Plus the planning for routes is all wrong, they are planning on having stops in the boonies in the central valley. You had advisors from Japan who have built the Shinkansen and France who operate the TGV, yet the state politicians have basically ignored their advice that the current route proposed is not going to be successful. You have a path along the 5 freeway that is state owned, which the HSR could be placed at which is not only cheaper and faster route, but because the politicians have their special interests they are going to go with that route that requires buying up land and bulldozing existing farmland along the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/california-governor-rebut-trump-1st-state-state-61010853

No more SF to LA HSR....or slow speed rail as it ended up being.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17197
Location: In a no-ship

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Gee who could have seen that years ago? Maybe just every one of us who voted no on this huge waste of money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Surfitall
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject:

What a bummer in every respect. Truly a waste.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject:

this project got green lit when Florida Governor Rick Scott rejected the Federal Funds for the project in Florida. He said at the time the cost projections were misleading, and the state would be left on the hook for this "boondoggle". He took a lot of heat for the decision at the time.....appears he may have been onto something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject:

LA to Vegas in Under a Minute
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ExPatLkrFan
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 3982
Location: Mukdahan, Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Well who would have guessed this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38751

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject:

I'm not surprised it died....what I am surprised is that it was Gavin Newsom who reduced the scope of the project....this thing was Jerry Brown's baby. If they were serious about building HSR from LA to SF it would've been built on the I-5 corridor since the state owns the land and they don't have to go thru litigation to acquire the land for the current route, which unsurprisingly faces tons of legal and environmental hurdles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52624
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
I'm not surprised it died....what I am surprised is that it was Gavin Newsom who reduced the scope of the project....this thing was Jerry Brown's baby. If they were serious about building HSR from LA to SF it would've been built on the I-5 corridor since the state owns the land and they don't have to go thru litigation to acquire the land for the current route, which unsurprisingly faces tons of legal and environmental hurdles.


It never should have lived in the first place.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB