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Luminous8
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 Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | At the small forward position with no KD...
I'm trying to think how many Small Forwards have been better than Ingram this year except for LeBron.
In the West...
Gianis, LeBron, Doncic, Kawhi and Brandon Ingram and then George and then I'd put Brandon Ingram.
Ingram is a top 5 Small Forward in the league this year at age 22.
Top 4 in the West. |
Yeah he’s definitely been better than George this year. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | At the small forward position with no KD...
I'm trying to think how many Small Forwards have been better than Ingram this year except for LeBron.
In the West...
Gianis, LeBron, Doncic, Kawhi and Brandon Ingram and then George and then I'd put Brandon Ingram.
Ingram is a top 5 Small Forward in the league this year at age 22.
Top 4 in the West. |
Yeah he’s definitely been better than George this year. |
PG hasn't been playing as many minutes this year, could be due to his conditioning. Wait until the ASB before definitively dropping him below Ingram.
Only thing that sticks out is PG's turnover rate, its up about 50%. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | At the small forward position with no KD...
I'm trying to think how many Small Forwards have been better than Ingram this year except for LeBron.
In the West...
Gianis, LeBron, Doncic, Kawhi and Brandon Ingram and then George
Ingram is a top 5 Small Forward in the league this year at age 22.
Top 4 in the West. |
George is better than Ingram
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Pelicans did not trade for Ingram as the center piece of the AD trade only to let him walk. I think they will max him out for sure.
Forward/Big Wing rankings in the West.
Lebron
Kawhi
---- gap -----
Paul George
----- gap -----
Gallinari
Ingram
Wiggins
To me Ingram is in the Gallinari-Wiggins stage-level. He has not hit Paul George level, and the next level after that is Kawhi-Lebron. He may make it to the all-star team, but I would guess that coaches if they wanted a 4th wing, would lean towards someone's team who is in the playoffs like Gallinari or Wiggins (depending on what the situation is at the all-star break).
If you traded Wiggins for Ingram, would either teams record change? I bet the Ingram fans would say yes, I tend to believe that Ingram's current numbers would not happen on a good team. What if you traded Paul George for Ingram? Would the Pels be 6-18? I think not. A bit better, and as the season went on a lot better. PG knows how to lead and carry a team.
On a competitive team, BI would be a second best player like Wiggins is, next to KAT. Lets see what happens when a healthy Zion plays with him, that will give a good idea of what he would do on a competitive team. Zion at his best will be the best player on that Pelicans team, and next year they will get a good idea of what Ingram's true ability/impact is. They should max him out, because he is a good young player improving and still may improve. |
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SocalDevin
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Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Pelicans did not trade for Ingram as the center piece of the AD trade only to let him walk. I think they will max him out for sure.
Forward/Big Wing rankings in the West.
Lebron
Kawhi
---- gap -----
Paul George
----- gap -----
Gallinari
Ingram
Wiggins
To me Ingram is in the Gallinari-Wiggins stage-level. He has not hit Paul George level, and the next level after that is Kawhi-Lebron. He may make it to the all-star team, but I would guess that coaches if they wanted a 4th wing, would lean towards someone's team who is in the playoffs like Gallinari or Wiggins (depending on what the situation is at the all-star break).
If you traded Wiggins for Ingram, would either teams record change? I bet the Ingram fans would say yes, I tend to believe that Ingram's current numbers would not happen on a good team. What if you traded Paul George for Ingram? Would the Pels be 6-18? I think not. A bit better, and as the season went on a lot better. PG knows how to lead and carry a team.
On a competitive team, BI would be a second best player like Wiggins is, next to KAT. Lets see what happens when a healthy Zion plays with him, that will give a good idea of what he would do on a competitive team. Zion at his best will be the best player on that Pelicans team, and next year they will get a good idea of what Ingram's true ability/impact is. They should max him out, because he is a good young player improving and still may improve. |
Ingram not being able to play well on a good team is nothing more than a bad theory. Replace PG with Ingram on the Clips and they'd be just as good.
Ingram being in the same tier as Gallinari and Wiggins is another peculiar remark. Can either of those guys play 1-4 on offense and defense? Gallinari has been in the league for 14 years.. He's averaged 19PPG for only 3 seasons. Ingram is averaging 25 on high efficiency at 22 years old.
Wiggins isn't nearly as efficient as Ingram.. maybe Ingram will have to be an all-star for 5 years straight with a few championships before the backhanded acknowledgments of his exceptional play stop.
Too slow to guard perimeter players... Wrong
Can't play the 1 or 2 because he can't shoot.. Wrong
Probably won't ever be a good shooter based on historical data of poor FT shooters.. Wrong
Just isn't good at basketball.. Wrong
Ball will help Ingram become a better player.. Wrong
Should be used exclusively as an off-ball option.. Wrong, one of the best iso scorers in the league.
Credit to those who are now quiet, and no longer pushing bad narratives.. I suppose I should give credit to those who aren't, being consistent even when wrong is commendable. If for nothing more than being consistent. =) |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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when measuring players at the top I think its very fair to analyze how well that player can will their team to wins and that has not looked good for BI at all. Even without Zion the Pelicans should not be this bad. Same thing happened with the Lakers last year... we were losing just as BI was putting up good numbers.
Not sold on him being able to lead/co-lead a contending team but he sure is going to get paid like a player that does.
I hindsight, I'd definitely would have kept him instead of Kuzma though if that was an option.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | when measuring players at the top I think its very fair to analyze how well that player can will their team to wins and that has not looked good for BI at all. Even without Zion the Pelicans should not be this bad. Same thing happened with the Lakers last year... we were losing just as BI was putting up good numbers.
Not sold on him being able to lead/co-lead a contending team but he sure is going to get paid like a player that does.
I hindsight, I'd definitely would have kept him instead of Kuzma though if that was an option. |
There isn’t one player who can will his team to wins, it takes a team.
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | when measuring players at the top I think its very fair to analyze how well that player can will their team to wins and that has not looked good for BI at all. Even without Zion the Pelicans should not be this bad. Same thing happened with the Lakers last year... we were losing just as BI was putting up good numbers.
Not sold on him being able to lead/co-lead a contending team but he sure is going to get paid like a player that does.
I hindsight, I'd definitely would have kept him instead of Kuzma though if that was an option. |
There isn’t one player who can will his team to wins, it takes a team. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage.
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
The question to ask yourself is.. if it matters? Would a stronger crop make him less valuable? It wouldn't.
His pay scale is based on potential and production. Other free agents that are available have no bearing on those factors. |
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Luminous8
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Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
So he would t get a max contract if it wasnt a weak crop? That’s laughable man. You just saw DLo get a max contract in one of the best free agent classes in some time. Brandon is already putting up better numbers than some of these other kids have on losing teams. Getting better numbers than Booker did with a max. It just doesn’t make sense to me why everyone KEEPS trying to some kind of negative feedback about BI. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
Careful treading here sir, lots of leftover unexploded ordnance here in these threads, mostly due to the tanks that rolled through these parts not long ago. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | You just saw DLo get a max contract in one of the best free agent classes in some time. |
Not disagreeing at all that Ingram will be maxed, but DLo held all the cards when it came to his Warriors salary. Had Golden State low-balled him in any way, the S&T crumbles and he ends up in LA, PHX, or Minnesota.
I believe the terms of the initial deal actually forced the Warriors to pay the max under CBA rules, until Durant (reportedly) imposed his will on the trade and forced the Ws to take back Graham and Napier, while sending the Nets a 1st rounder. But even then DLo would have to be paid $1M within the max. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
The question to ask yourself is.. if it matters? Would a stronger crop make him less valuable? It wouldn't.
His pay scale is based on potential and production. Other free agents that are available have no bearing on those factors. |
I merely commented it was a weak FA crop, which is true. I didn't say he's only getting the max b/c of it. I admitted my valuation of him initially was off so I'm saying he's worth it in a weak FA crop.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
So he would t get a max contract if it wasnt a weak crop? That’s laughable man. You just saw DLo get a max contract in one of the best free agent classes in some time. Brandon is already putting up better numbers than some of these other kids have on losing teams. Getting better numbers than Booker did with a max. It just doesn’t make sense to me why everyone KEEPS trying to some kind of negative feedback about BI. |
Read my post again. I think your reaction is being hypersensitive. I admitted my 20m valuation was off to begin with. Meaning, he has played himself into a max slot IN a weak FA crop. Which means barring injury, he's 100% assured he will get a max.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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And the quality of free agency doesn’t factor in to how much he will make.
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RG73
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Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
There isn’t one player who can will his team to wins, it takes a team. |
I see you've come around on this issue now... |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
There isn’t one player who can will his team to wins, it takes a team. |
I see you've come around on this issue now... |
I have always thought that every player is a role player
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Luminous8
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Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
So he would t get a max contract if it wasnt a weak crop? That’s laughable man. You just saw DLo get a max contract in one of the best free agent classes in some time. Brandon is already putting up better numbers than some of these other kids have on losing teams. Getting better numbers than Booker did with a max. It just doesn’t make sense to me why everyone KEEPS trying to some kind of negative feedback about BI. |
Read my post again. I think your reaction is being hypersensitive. I admitted my 20m valuation was off to begin with. Meaning, he has played himself into a max slot IN a weak FA crop. Which means barring injury, he's 100% assured he will get a max. |
Ok I gotcha now. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
So he would t get a max contract if it wasnt a weak crop? That’s laughable man. You just saw DLo get a max contract in one of the best free agent classes in some time. Brandon is already putting up better numbers than some of these other kids have on losing teams. Getting better numbers than Booker did with a max. It just doesn’t make sense to me why everyone KEEPS trying to some kind of negative feedback about BI. |
Read my post again. I think your reaction is being hypersensitive. I admitted my 20m valuation was off to begin with. Meaning, he has played himself into a max slot IN a weak FA crop. Which means barring injury, he's 100% assured he will get a max. |
Ok I gotcha now. |
Yeah. Remember around Jan. 2019 (about a year ago) I was converted to BI. My valuation rose thereafter, but dropped again due to the blood clot issue.
At his current production, age, 2020 FA market, etc., he will get the max for sure. I'm happy for him and pray for his health!
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
The question to ask yourself is.. if it matters? Would a stronger crop make him less valuable? It wouldn't.
His pay scale is based on potential and production. Other free agents that are available have no bearing on those factors. |
I merely commented it was a weak FA crop, which is true. I didn't say he's only getting the max b/c of it. I admitted my valuation of him initially was off so I'm saying he's worth it in a weak FA crop. |
Understood, I thought you mentioning the weak free agency crop factored into why he'd get paid. And yes, you've been in Ingram's corner sense around the time Russell was traded. |
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Luminous8
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Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hoping for good health for BI, b/c he's going to get PAID this summer.
I thought by year's end last year, he was about a 20m-ish player. Nope. Was wrong. A team is going to max him this summer, especially b/c the FA crop is weak and he's a young SF who has shown he can score. Pels better pay up or some other team will. |
He's not getting paid because of a weak free agent crop.. He's getting paid because he's a 22 year old that's a top ten scorer with one of the highest FG%s among them. He's also a league leader in 3pt%. He can also play 1-4.. those are the reasons he's getting paid. |
And it’s a weak FA crop too? I mean who is out there this summer? It really works to his advantage. |
The question to ask yourself is.. if it matters? Would a stronger crop make him less valuable? It wouldn't.
His pay scale is based on potential and production. Other free agents that are available have no bearing on those factors. |
I merely commented it was a weak FA crop, which is true. I didn't say he's only getting the max b/c of it. I admitted my valuation of him initially was off so I'm saying he's worth it in a weak FA crop. |
Understood, I thought you mentioning the weak free agency crop factored into why he'd get paid. And yes, you've been in Ingram's corner sense around the time Russell was traded. |
That’s the way I took it at first. It’s all good. But onto BI,... He’s getting into a bit of chucked mode the last few games. Need to see him get back to those 5-7 assist games. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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He has to. I saw him moving the ball, he would have had at least 6 assists tonight with better finishers.
On a night when Jrue isn't showing up, he has no choice but to be really aggressive. Holiday put up 18 shots.. Ingram shot 17..
Pels won't win anything if those guys don't put up that kind of volume.. |
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