Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject:
greenfrog wrote:
kikanga wrote:
^ I thought Yang performed well, also.
I just want somebody to ask him, why $1000 specifically. Why not $1100 or $1200. Is it just because $1000 is a round number?
Assuming UBI answers as many problems as he claims. I want to know the logic and data behind whatever number is chosen for the monthly stipend.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67631 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject:
Joe is still riding the Obama bus. He's gonna ride it til the wheels fall of. I don't think they will. Having said that I believe the AA vote will go with whoever the Democratic nominee is. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29286 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:28 am Post subject:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:02 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
Bullies are always thin skinned and fragile at their core. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:06 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
Bill Maher is out of touch on healthcare for all. He’ll, I was out of touch on it until my wife had an emergency necessary procedure and received a bill for over $160,000 because the facility she went to was out of network. Unless you personally know someone who experiences something like this, it’s hard for many to understand just how broken our healthcare system is.
That said, I appreciate the debate of ideas and enjoy hearing perspectives that are different from my own and then weighing those arguments on their merit.
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
I tend to agree with Bill Maher in this discussion, specifically and especially that Obama is more of a centrist Democrat than almost all of the candidates running now, if not all of them. He may have been more progressive at heart, but he ran and governed as a pragmatic moderate progressive. Maher was also right about how the promise of being able to keep your insurance (the lie of the year, though I don't agree) was a most effective talking point for Republicans. What people don't want to acknowledge is that this pragmatic progressive Democrat was hated from day one to the point that the Republicans had a pact to fight him on every freaking issue. And they did. And they are more rabid today.
Obama's popularity, this pragmatic moderate democrat, at this point compared to Trump? 43.6% - 41.6%
As I have said frequently in this forum and elsewhere, the majority of Americans do side with the Democrats on the majority of the issues--that is if taken one at a time. I will speculate that if one were to lump them all together and ask, do you want all of these at once, the people will resist and not be in favor of all at once, especially once the the price tag is turned around.
What both Maher and Moore failed to articulate, was that we have a mixed economy, and Democrats want to move the country to a more socialistic side while Republicans want to move it towards a more capitalistic side. But Moore and many of the liberal Democrats do not just want to move it, they want to ramrod it, and jolt the country to the left in a major way. He wants this tanker of a country to act more like it is a Jet Ski. Moore seems to think that because the country has made many progressive and liberal advances, that it is ready for all of them. And I don't agree, certainly not at once. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29286 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:30 am Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
I tend to agree with Bill Maher in this discussion, specifically and especially that Obama is more of a centrist Democrat than almost all of the candidates running now, if not all of them. He may have been more progressive at heart, but he ran and governed as a pragmatic moderate progressive. Maher was also right about how the promise of being able to keep your insurance (the lie of the year, though I don't agree) was a most effective talking point for Republicans. What people don't want to acknowledge is that this pragmatic progressive Democrat was hated from day one to the point that the Republicans had a pact to fight him on every freaking issue. And they did. And they are more rabid today.
Obama's popularity, this pragmatic moderate democrat, at this point compared to Trump? 43.6% - 41.6%
As I have said frequently in this forum and elsewhere, the majority of Americans do side with the Democrats on the majority of the issues--that is if taken one at a time. I will speculate that if one were to lump them all together and ask, do you want all of these at once, the people will resist and not be in favor of all at once, especially once the the price tag is turned around.
What both Maher and Moore failed to articulate, was that we have a mixed economy, and Democrats want to move the country to a more socialistic side while Republicans want to move it towards a more capitalistic side. But Moore and many of the liberal Democrats do not just want to move it, they want to ramrod it, and jolt the country to the left in a major way. He wants this tanker of a country to act more like it is a Jet Ski. Moore seems to think that because the country has made many progressive and liberal advances, that it is ready for all of them. And I don't agree, certainly not at once.
Times like this, I wish the conservatives who hit and run in this thread would read this convo. We aren't all just a hive mind in here who agree about everything. Alot of the toughest debates in here are the ones we have among ourselves.
You may be right. This primary will be a litmus test for what the Democratic party wants. Small change or large change.
2008 Obama was further left than Hillary (and he won). 2016 Trump was further right than any of his competitors (and won). In 2016, Dems chose the more "electable", "moderate", and "safer" candidate and lost. In general, an aspiration big change campaign when trying to unseat a party has been successful recently.
What Moore said about Michigan is dead on correct. They put those issues on the ballot and they did get huge turnout from college educated people, women, minorities, and people living in the greater city areas.
My issue is really Maher's hypocrisy. He'll complain about "social justice warriors" and the "me too movement" as much as possible and then have a guest on that talks about anti-semitism and he'll spend the whole time agreeing with them. Zero self awareness. It's alright for people to be offended and for them to stand up against discrimination they perceive. If Bill perceives it as well. Otherwise you're just a far left liberal who won't help Dems win any elections.
Socialist Bernie has been polling very well in Texas for months now, but Bill ignores it. Medicare for all has polled well above 50% for a while now (admittedly not as high as Medicare for all who want it), Bill ignores it.
I'll stand by my original post, in the past (2008 and 2012) Bill was left of the Democratic party. Left of Obama. Nowadays he's right of it. And it all feeds back to his narcissism. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
The only thing consistent with Bill Maher is his narcissism. He doesn't know issues in depth, he changes his mind all the time for no reason, and the only issues he really cares about is what affects him personally, like pot. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:20 am Post subject:
Upset about Banks vs Warren. They know they've become dirtier than ever
We bail out banks. Bail out banks yet yell about "Socialism"
How to explain to Republican voters the difference between
One Trillion Dollars given to already wealthy people
Less than that much invested in Human beings in America
Big business pumps fentanyl into your cities
Choose to give them a tax cut or actually take care of
Communities and families and lives these businesses have nearly destroyed
Big business fills the air and soil/water with life ending poisons
Give them a tax break or take care of all the damage they do to the earth and communities etc
They'd rather ignore the hell their party is doing as long as they
Feel they are getting revenge on their perceived enemies??
Anything to spite their perceived enemies?
As long as supporting Trump pisses off their perceived enemies they will do it?
I rag on big business often, but I, as I suspect do most, appreciate the good--jobs, technology, innovativeness, and more. But there are structural issues that create too many problems, and hardships. Three problems in particular that strike me at this moment: Being that they are now often multi-national, they are not loyal to their country of residence, or its citizens, nor any other for that matter; they are somehow considered human, and have rights as such; and related to the first problem, their only obligation is to their shareholders, which tends to only mean, greater profit--at the expense of their workers, the environment, and consumers.
Though both parties contribute to these problems, we all know the party that has a pact with them. This pact, not in writing, but certainly by understanding, is that if they support Republicans, Republicans let them be for the most part, and focus instead on the culture war that their rank and file crave so dearly. As such, though the rank and file often vote against their economic interests, these culture war issues are what boils the blood and gets them to the voting booth. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
As someone who used to watch Bill's old show, and even the one before that on Comedy Central, I'm a little surprised of Moore's characterization of him back then. I always thought he was on the libertarian/liberal spectrum, certainly not the progressive crusader (if that term even was fashionable back then) that Moore seems to think he was. Although he did move further to the left after 9/11, mostly out of self-preservation IMO since he pissed off conservatives.
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
As someone who used to watch Bill's old show, and even the one before that on Comedy Central, I'm a little surprised of Moore's characterization of him back then. I always thought he was on the libertarian/liberal spectrum, certainly not the progressive crusader (if that term even was fashionable back then) that Moore seems to think he was. Although he did move further to the left after 9/11, mostly out of self-preservation IMO since he pissed off conservatives.
Bill has always been a civil libertarian, long before libertarian, as a general term, caught fire. The difference between the two is that a civil libertarian wants government out of their personal lives regarding issues that don't directly affect others--drugs, sex, porn, etc. A libertarain wants there to be little or no government in our personal AND business lives, as they think that every entrepreneur is some John Galt whose greatness is only as good as is his freedom to do what he wants. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Bill Maher, like John Stewart is a comedian first and I actually felt sorry for Fox News hosts who would talk about Stewart as if he was a politician or journalist.
He was neither.
Neither is Maher. If you don't like his comedy, don't watch- simple as that.
I love his work- I also love the work of Bill Burr and another arrogant star- Kobe Bryant.
I am able to separate the art from the artist.
But I get where people are coming from- the way some dislike Maher, I felt about Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby... _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
If he doesn't want people to regard him as a political commentator, he shouldn't be hosting a show that is primarily political and appear on CNN and MSNBC to give his political take on things. I don't see Bill Burr appearing on Hardball.
I think Maher wants us to think he's smart, informed, and consistent. But when he gets into an argument with a conservative, he almost always loses because he knows issues only on the superficial level and doesn't or just can't ask followup questions. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29286 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject:
greenfrog wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
As someone who used to watch Bill's old show, and even the one before that on Comedy Central, I'm a little surprised of Moore's characterization of him back then. I always thought he was on the libertarian/liberal spectrum, certainly not the progressive crusader (if that term even was fashionable back then) that Moore seems to think he was. Although he did move further to the left after 9/11, mostly out of self-preservation IMO since he pissed off conservatives.
I can only speak on 2007 to 2014-2015ish. He was left of the party. And that lines up with what you’re saying. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29286 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:22 pm Post subject:
eddiejonze wrote:
Bill Maher, like John Stewart is a comedian first and I actually felt sorry for Fox News hosts who would talk about Stewart as if he was a politician or journalist.
He was neither.
Neither is Maher. If you don't like his comedy, don't watch- simple as that.
I love his work- I also love the work of Bill Burr and another arrogant star- Kobe Bryant.
I am able to separate the art from the artist.
But I get where people are coming from- the way some dislike Maher, I felt about Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby...
I’m glad you brought up Jon. From ‘08 to whenever Jon quit. Bill was LEFT of Jon. 2015 on, that’s when bill turned a corner. Inviting on Assange for an anti Hillary Clinton rant leading up to an election. Inviting on Milo Yino-whatever for offensive right wing commentary and calling him a harmless troll. Since then he’s minimized prejudice of various kinds as SJWs going overboard and Me Too-ers gone amuck.
But like green said. If you watched him long enough you’d know. He’s influenced by conservative ideals. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But nowadays Bill’s a blatant hypocrite and inconsistent voice living in a “$250,000 check from AT&T per episode” bubble. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:16 am Post subject:
eddiejonze wrote:
But I get where people are coming from- the way some dislike Maher, I felt about Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby...
I have never seen anyone put Maher in the same context as a pedophile or a rapist.
Interesting how defensive some of Maher's fans get about criticism of him. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Bill Maher, like John Stewart is a comedian first and I actually felt sorry for Fox News hosts who would talk about Stewart as if he was a politician or journalist.
He was neither.
Neither is Maher. If you don't like his comedy, don't watch- simple as that.
I love his work- I also love the work of Bill Burr and another arrogant star- Kobe Bryant.
I am able to separate the art from the artist.
But I get where people are coming from- the way some dislike Maher, I felt about Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby...
Stewart was and remains a different animal. We could use a lot more like him. He did the funny because it was his job but he did so much more. Two of my favorite videos are when he literally destroyed crossfire and Jim Kramer.
In both cases, if they are you watched with no context , you would immediately see that the hosts are way out of their weight class.
So Kavanaugh is the scumbag sexual predator we thought he was; the FBI "investigation" was a sham like we knew it was; Republican Senators were told of allegations from eye witnesses before the hearings even started like we knew they were; and all the Republican Senators voted yes anyway because they don't give a damn about women or applying the rule of law to powerful white men. The last minute FBI "background" check was a sham, like we knew it was, and served only as a fig leaf to give "moderate" GOP senators an excuse to vote yes. #KavanaughLied #ImpeachKavanaugh
So Kavanaugh is the scumbag sexual predator we thought he was; the FBI "investigation" was a sham like we knew it was; Republican Senators were told of allegations from eye witnesses before the hearings even started like we knew they were; and all the Republican Senators voted yes anyway because they don't give a damn about women or applying the rule of law to powerful white men. The last minute FBI "background" check was a sham, like we knew it was, and served only as a fig leaf to give "moderate" GOP senators an excuse to vote yes. #KavanaughLied #ImpeachKavanaugh
Reason 10,042 to win back the Senate.
Who really hasn't gone through life without ever being accused of sexual assault more than once?
Okay. Maybe it's just me and just about everyone else.
Bill Maher, like John Stewart is a comedian first and I actually felt sorry for Fox News hosts who would talk about Stewart as if he was a politician or journalist.
He was neither.
Neither is Maher. If you don't like his comedy, don't watch- simple as that.
I love his work- I also love the work of Bill Burr and another arrogant star- Kobe Bryant.
I am able to separate the art from the artist.
But I get where people are coming from- the way some dislike Maher, I felt about Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby...
Stewart was and remains a different animal. We could use a lot more like him. He did the funny because it was his job but he did so much more. Two of my favorite videos are when he literally destroyed crossfire and Jim Kramer.
In both cases, if they are you watched with no context , you would immediately see that the hosts are way out of their weight class.
Yeah, my favorite ever was his interview with goofy Chris Wallace.
I enjoyed that Stewart had no qualms going on Fox shows in person and out debating with humor, every time. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject:
ChefLinda wrote:
So Kavanaugh is the scumbag sexual predator we thought he was; the FBI "investigation" was a sham like we knew it was; Republican Senators were told of allegations from eye witnesses before the hearings even started like we knew they were; and all the Republican Senators voted yes anyway because they don't give a damn about women or applying the rule of law to powerful white men. The last minute FBI "background" check was a sham, like we knew it was, and served only as a fig leaf to give "moderate" GOP senators an excuse to vote yes. #KavanaughLied #ImpeachKavanaugh
Reason 10,042 to win back the Senate.
An alcholic, a rapist and a liar walk into a bar . . . _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I've been on a screw Bill Maher tip for a little while now. My cousin just texted me this interview with Michael Moore:
This all started maybe a 1/2 a year ago. Fran Lebowitz was on Real Time and said we don't need another geriatric white man as President (referring to Bernie and especially Biden). And Bill called it ageism. And was very offended. And he hasn't put down that cross since.
In 2008 and 2012, Bill was left of the Democratic party. This time around he's right of it. (bleep) on the Democratic left any chance possible. Glad Michael had this convo with him. Moore is right. And he won the bet.
As someone who used to watch Bill's old show, and even the one before that on Comedy Central, I'm a little surprised of Moore's characterization of him back then. I always thought he was on the libertarian/liberal spectrum, certainly not the progressive crusader (if that term even was fashionable back then) that Moore seems to think he was. Although he did move further to the left after 9/11, mostly out of self-preservation IMO since he pissed off conservatives.
Bill has always been a civil libertarian, long before libertarian, as a general term, caught fire. The difference between the two is that a civil libertarian wants government out of their personal lives regarding issues that don't directly affect others--drugs, sex, porn, etc. A libertarain wants there to be little or no government in our personal AND business lives, as they think that every entrepreneur is some John Galt whose greatness is only as good as is his freedom to do what he wants.
Speaking of Libertarians _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
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