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Theseus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/17/1912272/-Republican-super-PAC-caught-using-the-same-local-woman-in-ads-attacking-Democrats-in-8-states?utm_campaign=trending

Republican super PAC caught using the same ‘local woman’ in ads attacking Democrats in 8 states

Quote:
Stacy has every right to her local opinion. I may not agree with Stacy, but she knows her community and she’s a teacher. And she is a wife. And she is a mom. And, according to the American Action Network’s series of ads, she lives a teaching mom wife’s life in at least eight different states of the Union. Stacy is what we call in the business, a superhero. This woman is not simply a Wife, a Teacher, and a Mom, she’s eight times more than all of that. She’s like your mom but she has secret families and professions across the country!


I love that these arguments work with people. "Why impeach the president when you can fix the opioid crisis instead?" As if its that easy, Stacy. If only the dems weren't impeaching Trump we'd have free health care and flying cars.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject:

If the Democrats focused on impeachment and nothing else, I'd be pissed, too. But they've passed hundreds of bills that McConnell has ignored.

Sadly many people aren't informed and Trump takes up all the attention. Most people have no idea about the great legislation that the House has passed which will never become law as long as McConnell and Trump are there.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
greenfrog wrote:

Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?


You wanna fight, I don't, Baron. Let's just leave it there.


I don' want to fight either, but your statement, has little, if any basis. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for some 3 or 4 months or so. He passed Obamacare during that period that helped the middle class the most.


Only St. Bernie is all-knowing and perfect and worthy. Everyone else is flawed and shills for the elite.


I love how frog just throws out such a loaded accusation and then hides behind "I don't want to fight" and "let's just leave it there" when called on it.

Says a lot . . .

Damn fine poster, one of the best LG.com has to offer across all the boards.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.

Warren's rhetoric surrounding the death penalty is actually uncomfortable in how she seems to view punitive justice. She supports abolishing the death penalty (good) in some part because life in prison is greater aggregate punishment (*cringe*).

If there's a little inner Republican in Warren, I think it's by far most likely to manifest itself wrt the most progressive prison reform - reducing sentencing for the most violent offenders.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:35 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm trying to parse the significant differences between Warren and Sanders and struggling.


Paraphrasing here, but I've seen some online comments from Bernie supporters (or Russian bots) like "oh, she was a Republican until she was 50 so it shows she isn't a true progressive like Bernie, who has had it in his heart his whole life." In other words, pure crapola.

But, I mean realistic differences.

Like...does Sanders support codetermination like Warren does?

Does Warren support abolishing "right to work" laws like Sanders does?

What are the foreign policy differences? What are the monetary policy differences?

Sanders supports an immediate M4A single payer system vote.

Warren supports a two part vote that extends the ACA to everyone by 2022 and then tries to implement M4A thereafter.

Bernie supports incarcerated men and women retaining the right to vote, which is very cool.

Bernie also believes strongly in the "economic anxiety at the root of racism" while using ahistorical arguments to support said position, which is very not cool.

Warren's rhetoric surrounding the death penalty is actually uncomfortable in how she seems to view punitive justice. She supports abolishing the death penalty (good) in some part because life in prison is greater aggregate punishment (*cringe*).

If there's a little inner Republican in Warren, I think it's by far most likely to manifest itself wrt the most progressive prison reform - reducing sentencing for the most violent offenders.

This is where the whole "Warren's a crypto-Republican" bull falls apart for me - no, there's no hidden agenda, you can clearly see where the former Republican comes out, she's not obfuscating (bleep). She believes in punishing Wall Street bankers and DC lobbyists, she believes in radical structural reform to the courts and Congress, she believes in codetermination, and she has some conservaflack views on prison sentencing when it comes to the most violent offenders.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:57 am    Post subject:

Alan Dershowitz is on Trump's impeachment legal team. How long ago did we all call out Dershowitz's perplexing defense of Trump?
Well Trump won November 2016. So I'll guess, 2017. That's when Alan argued a President can't break the law. It's impossible legally.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:34 am    Post subject:

National Archives Says It Altered Trump Signs and Other Messages In Women’s March Photo.

https://tinyurl.com/vwna9y4

Dumb decision that gives credence to the TDS stuff.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:53 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
National Archives Says It Altered Trump Signs and Other Messages In Women’s March Photo.

https://tinyurl.com/vwna9y4

Dumb decision that gives credence to the TDS stuff.

Some folks making decisions at the National Archives can now be certain of how they would've acted if they had lived in Germany in the 1930s.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
If only the dems weren't impeaching Trump we'd have free health care and flying cars.


As a very wise person pointed out previously in this thread, flying cars wouldn't be as great an idea as we'd like to think.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject:

Mitch has it in his power not to hold a trial. Do any here think he will exercise that power?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Mitch has it in his power not to hold a trial. Do any here think he will exercise that power?

No. It sounds like they're going to try to fast track it and limit witnesses similar to the Kavanaugh hearings.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Mitch has it in his power not to hold a trial. Do any here think he will exercise that power?


There are a lot of things one can say about McConnell, but stupid isn't one of them. There's much more to be gained by a sham of a trial than there is to hide from it.
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Wilt
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
In a separate audio clip, Trump is heard boasting about increasing the defense budget by $2.5 trillion. To those who criticized his spending and the growing national debt, Trump said, “Who the hell cares about the budget? We’re going to have a country.”

For most of Barack Obama’s time in office, Republicans seemed to care very much about the budget, making fears around the national debt and deficit their top talking point. They’ve backed off those concerns under Trump.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/18/1912390/-Trump-at-big-donor-fundraiser-Who-the-hell-cares-about-the-budget?utm_campaign=trending
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject:

I don't think anyone realized just how farcical things could get under Trump. I mean you just can't make this stuff up:

The US Space Force has revealed its utility uniform, and the internet has things to say about it
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Quote:
In a separate audio clip, Trump is heard boasting about increasing the defense budget by $2.5 trillion. To those who criticized his spending and the growing national debt, Trump said, “Who the hell cares about the budget? We’re going to have a country.”

For most of Barack Obama’s time in office, Republicans seemed to care very much about the budget, making fears around the national debt and deficit their top talking point. They’ve backed off those concerns under Trump.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/18/1912390/-Trump-at-big-donor-fundraiser-Who-the-hell-cares-about-the-budget?utm_campaign=trending


Its odd that such an ardent fox news viewer would unironically have this take. It must mean he saw through some of the bs they were rolling out against Obama, right? Or is the logic that inconsistent, insane, and self deluded? Screw it, I think I know already. Can we vote yet?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Alan Dershowitz is on Trump's impeachment legal team. How long ago did we all call out Dershowitz's perplexing defense of Trump?
Well Trump won November 2016. So I'll guess, 2017. That's when Alan argued a President can't break the law. It's impossible legally.


Dershowitz was on CNN and argues that abuse of power is not a high crime and misdemeanor. He said abuse of power was rejected by the framers. What they rejected was the term "maladministration," which is similar but not identical to abuse of power. They rejected maladministration because it was too broad, not that it never could have a valid application. In the case of Trump, it seems to me and most, that it does have a valid application.

He says "other" (of other high crimes and misdemeanors) refers to matters that are close in kind, like treason, like bribery (like maybe coercion of a foreign government?). I think Dershowitz is hung up on semantics and not the actions leading to impeachment.

Furthermore, Madison argued that presidents could be impeached and removed for “wanton removal of meritorious officers.” Does the name Marie Yovanovitch come to mind?

Also, the other famous author of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton, "made the larger point that impeachment is directed at 'political' offenses that 'proceed from … the abuse or violation of some public trust.'" Would a high ranking official (such as our president), who recklessly disregarded congress and law, by deliberately withholding congressionally authorized funding to an ally to fight and resist a mutual enemy they were at war with, so that this high ranking official could secure an advantage in an election, be in violation of the public trust? I would think nearly everyone would agree to that--provided the high ranking person accused was a Democrat.

These last two quotes come from: The Atlantic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
greenfrog wrote:

Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?


You wanna fight, I don't, Baron. Let's just leave it there.


I don' want to fight either, but your statement, has little, if any basis. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for some 3 or 4 months or so. He passed Obamacare during that period that helped the middle class the most.


By forcing them to buy health insurance they can't afford from a monopoly?


It's a little ironic that single payer is a system where they tax you (make you pay) for healthcare run by a monopoly. Probably why they keep lying to people and saying the rich will pay for all of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
greenfrog wrote:

Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?


You wanna fight, I don't, Baron. Let's just leave it there.


I don' want to fight either, but your statement, has little, if any basis. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for some 3 or 4 months or so. He passed Obamacare during that period that helped the middle class the most.


By forcing them to buy health insurance they can't afford from a monopoly?


It's a little ironic that single payer is a system where they tax you (make you pay) for healthcare run by a monopoly. Probably why they keep lying to people and saying the rich will pay for all of it.


I should have thrown in "private" before monopoly, as in monetization of the sick and dead, but you conveniently neglect the affordability aspect (the most important part).

As far as the lie you're referring to, you're right. The middle class will have to pay something (the semantic difference between a public tax for a better product, and a private tax for a lousier one). Bernie is quite upfront about it. Warren is spinning. She doesn't even mention M4A in her stump speeches anymore, so apparantly you don't have to worry about it.


Last edited by greenfrog on Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject:

The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Incredible editorial https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/17/opinions/prosperity-gap-2020-election-opinion-sachs/index.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-passes-sanders-mccain-veterans-bill

So I guess he can compromise.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
greenfrog wrote:

Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?


You wanna fight, I don't, Baron. Let's just leave it there.


I don' want to fight either, but your statement, has little, if any basis. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for some 3 or 4 months or so. He passed Obamacare during that period that helped the middle class the most.


By forcing them to buy health insurance they can't afford from a monopoly?


It's a little ironic that single payer is a system where they tax you (make you pay) for healthcare run by a monopoly. Probably why they keep lying to people and saying the rich will pay for all of it.


I should have thrown in "private" before monopoly, as in monetization of the sick and dead, but you conveniently neglect the affordability aspect (the most important part).

As far as the lie you're referring to, you're right. The middle class will have to pay something (the semantic difference between a public tax for a better product, and a private tax for a lousier one). Bernie is quite upfront about it. Warren is spinning. She doesn't even mention M4A in her stump speeches anymore, so apparantly you don't have to worry about it.


I don't worry about it cause it ain't happening no matter who is chosen. Until the Dems get 60 in the Senate, hold the House, and take the presidency, we shouldn't even begin to get serious about what our new system will be. We'll likely get there, but it will be a long and bumpy road.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Dershowitz is a advocate for the maleficent, he advised in the case of OJ and such, yeah I said OJ! In the beginning I thought he was a good lawyer. I haven't followed him closely. Of late he seems to be a seeker of the spotlight.
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Last edited by jodeke on Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ribeye wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
greenfrog wrote:

Identity politics fail. Obama said all the right things, hollowed out the middle class, and turned Wall Street millionaires like Steve Mnuchin into billionaires (Kamala let that (bleep) off the hook, too; too much paperwork, easier to prosecute poor people). Who cares.

Obama "hollowed out the middle class?" Huh?


You wanna fight, I don't, Baron. Let's just leave it there.


I don' want to fight either, but your statement, has little, if any basis. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for some 3 or 4 months or so. He passed Obamacare during that period that helped the middle class the most.


By forcing them to buy health insurance they can't afford from a monopoly?


It's a little ironic that single payer is a system where they tax you (make you pay) for healthcare run by a monopoly. Probably why they keep lying to people and saying the rich will pay for all of it.


I should have thrown in "private" before monopoly, as in monetization of the sick and dead, but you conveniently neglect the affordability aspect (the most important part).

As far as the lie you're referring to, you're right. The middle class will have to pay something (the semantic difference between a public tax for a better product, and a private tax for a lousier one). Bernie is quite upfront about it. Warren is spinning. She doesn't even mention M4A in her stump speeches anymore, so apparantly you don't have to worry about it.


I don't worry about it cause it ain't happening no matter who is chosen. Until the Dems get 60 in the Senate, hold the House, and take the presidency, we shouldn't even begin to get serious about what our new system will be. We'll likely get there, but it will be a long and bumpy road.


You're right, but it's about values and knowing where a president stands. Frankly, I think Bernie is more likely to create a more center/left government than Biden would be. Do you go into a negotiation with your compromise position as your opening bid, or ask for the moon and then bargain down?

And even with 60 Dems M4A isn't happening. Read that editorial. Big Health is pulling the strings.
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