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Wilt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:09 pm    Post subject:

Human history is full of awful things. But we're living in 2020 and it seems like all it's doing is unite his base, but that won't be enough.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject:

This has to be the stuuupidest campaign add of all times.

Trump Ad On What Happens If Police Are Defunded: "Our Estimated Wait Time Is Currently 5 Days"


LINK
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:54 pm    Post subject:

RIP to The Onion. I know they have been challenged trying to create content that is humorous in a time when the absurdity that is their brand is competing with an absurd reality, but they might as well close up shop. It's over. This time they've been completely outdone by the real news.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Human history is full of awful things. But we're living in 2020 and it seems like all it's doing is unite his base, but that won't be enough.


I admire your optimism, but Trump hasn't just held his base. He's inspired a virulence to it we haven't seen until now. As election day draws near and Trump's re-election seems imperiled to those on the right, they are going to dig in and defend come November. Their newly consolidated affirmation to be open about their racism and hatred is going to bring more of the far right Republicans to the polls than were in 2016.

Meanwhile, on the Left, people are saying, "he's gone too far. People will clearly see that and even some Republicans will vote against him" and such people will in turn become complacent and stay home, just like they did in 2016 because the polls told them Hilary had it in the bag.

The more hideous Trump becomes, the more emboldened his supporters become. There is no one on the Right who is working to reduce that. We get sucked into the "Well Lindsey Graham kind of criticized Trump." sense of security. But meanwhile, everyone in the GOP that matters is full bore Trump.

Watching what is going on in the country in regards to the pandemic and BLM etc. right now, we are in far more precarious a situation than we were in 2016.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.
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Wilt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:06 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Human history is full of awful things. But we're living in 2020 and it seems like all it's doing is unite his base, but that won't be enough.


I admire your optimism, but Trump hasn't just held his base. He's inspired a virulence to it we haven't seen until now. As election day draws near and Trump's re-election seems imperiled to those on the right, they are going to dig in and defend come November. Their newly consolidated affirmation to be open about their racism and hatred is going to bring more of the far right Republicans to the polls than were in 2016.

Meanwhile, on the Left, people are saying, "he's gone too far. People will clearly see that and even some Republicans will vote against him" and such people will in turn become complacent and stay home, just like they did in 2016 because the polls told them Hilary had it in the bag.

The more hideous Trump becomes, the more emboldened his supporters become. There is no one on the Right who is working to reduce that. We get sucked into the "Well Lindsey Graham kind of criticized Trump." sense of security. But meanwhile, everyone in the GOP that matters is full bore Trump.

Watching what is going on in the country in regards to the pandemic and BLM etc. right now, we are in far more precarious a situation than we were in 2016.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.


I think you're stuck in the 2016 mindset. It's tempting to think that way, but you can't win an election in which you think everything will go right for the other side and nothing will go right for your side, but somehow hoping you're wrong. If Democrats collectively had that mindset, I don't think it would turn out positive. I know you don't want people to become complacent (you've been making that point for months) by assuming that Trump will lose, but I'm not sure thinking he'll win is the best way to motivate your base either. There's a nice balance of optimism and focus. That's how Obama won. We had the optimism in 2016 (we all thought Hillary had it in the bag), but we didn't have the right focus, primarily because Trump had no record to run on, no four years of chaos, no 130,000 dead people, no economic collapse, etc. You minimized those things in your post, which happen to be the most important factors of this election on our side. You left out the motivation, the anger, the numbers of the majority of this country. You left out the biggest electoral landslide in a generation in 2018.

In a bizarre scenario in which every single thing went his way, he won by 77,000 votes. While not forgetting what happened in 2016 (I will never shake off that disappointment as long as I live), we live in the reality of 2020. And all indications are that Trump is in big trouble electorally. His response was to go 100% racist to motivate his base, which he might very well do, in addition to more reluctant Republicans that are not necessarily part of his base but always vote Republican. He wouldn't be doing this if he was in the lead. And let's assume he has a big turnout among his supporters, that's still not enough to win the election if we show up and we have plenty of powerful reasons to vote. And I don't think that being overly pessimistic for months will erase all complacency among our electorate. I think it's more likely it will result in the saddest campaign ever. Fortunately, there's plenty of hope and focus among most Democrats.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:00 am    Post subject:

2 things worry me about this election.
1) Republicans throughout history have shown a god-like ability to hold their nose and vote for "their guy". No matter what.
2) Trump will cheat (and get away with it if he wins).

It's hard enough to oust an incumbent when they aren't breaking the law to win
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:24 am    Post subject:

I think we will win in 2020 for the reasons Wilt mentioned but the nagging thought of it not happening is lurking. You know the feeling "I don't want to jinx it" so you don't openly commit. Unless the economy makes a miracle recovery and the virus goes poof Biden will win in a landslide.

There are racist in America, always will be. The majority of Americans aren't racist. The majority are tribal. As a diverse whole that tribe is American and will put country first.

Trump opened the eyes of people who in the past just let politics be politics because as a country America was at the top of the heap. It's now near the bottom. Voters will go to the polls in droves and vote in the best interest of the country. Gotta keep the faith. JMHO
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:28 am    Post subject:

If you aren’t reading Heather Cox Richardson you need to start...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject:

NMLaker wrote:
If you aren’t reading Heather Cox Richardson you need to start...


Yea, she is amazing. Sometimes, if one really wanted to be lazy, all they would have ro do is read her daily Facebook post and they would know 95% of what happened on any given day in a minute or two worth of reading.
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Wilt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
2 things worry me about this election.
1) Republicans throughout history have shown a god-like ability to hold their nose and vote for "their guy". No matter what.


Even if we assume that's true, for them to win requires them to show up and for us not to show up, given we are the majority. That's how he won in 2016, persuading enough on our side not to vote or vote for joke candidates (with the help of the Russians, of course) or prevent enough of us from voting through voter suppression. And he did that with the culture war stuff by driving up Hillary's negatives in key states with higher percentages of whites without college degrees. The problem is that it's not working against Biden, at least for now. That's why I keep emphasizing that 77,000 number. We don't have to worry about any Hillary state going for Trump, but Trump has to defend MI/WI/PA and other states against an old white guy that hasn't had 30 years of hatred directed towards him. Biden might lose for other reasons, but not for the same reasons Hillary lost.

Quote:
2) Trump will cheat (and get away with it if he wins).

It's hard enough to oust an incumbent when they aren't breaking the law to win


That's my bigger worry. But at the same time, some key states, such as MI/WI/PA have Democratic governors and secretaries of state, which will make it harder this time around.

He can win only if there is some kind of miracle economic recovery and he persuades enough people in the middle - suburban moms, older people, white college educated people - that the recovery justifies close to 200,000 deaths AND he is successful at cheating with the help of domestic and foreign sources in a very close election.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:03 am    Post subject:

paymonM wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Biden’s tax plan is quite progressive


it is definitely progressive, but where the disparity exists is not with the income tax, but with the wealth tax.

That $100M stock sale example showing only 1M in gain is because of the inheritance tax.


Right, and if you read that, that’s part of what he’s addressing...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject:

The main difference from 2016 is we have a MALE candidate so we aren't fighting widespread misogyny in addition to everything else. And when I say misogyny, I include white women in helping to perpetuate it. This is especially true for evangelicals (bible based patriarchy) and non-college educated women and men.

It's not going to be easy to overcome racism, voter suppression and other Republican and Russian shenanigans, but it will be easier. The Clinton-hate was always largely connected to her gender (starting back with the "baking cookies" and "standing by her man" quotes).

It will be easier to pick off Independents and moderate-white-suburban-women this time around. Trump has driven college educated white women away from him in droves since 2016 -- and he has replaced them with no one. His whole ploy is to go full-racist to gin up his base and suppress the Democratic vote wherever he can. That's harder for him to pull off this time around because in addition to his gender-gap problem, and not adding to his base problem, there is more energy against him due to his mishandling of COVID (which has also driven seniors from him), turning off even more young people and people of color who have been protesting for over a month. If we can get those people to the polls then it will make a difference.

Other positives for Democratic side is the huge voter turnout in 2018 and every election since then, including during the pandemic with the Republicans expressly doing everything to depress voter turnout -- and it didn't work -- Democratic voters showed up in waves determined to overcome Republican's blatant anti-Democratic cheating. People are angry and scared and fed up. They are much, much, much more motivated to show up than 2016.

Again, not saying it will be easy, but there are many positive signs and I'd rather focus on and support Democrats where I can rather than focusing on the DEPLORABLES. (bleep) them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject:

NYT: Mary Trump’s Book Accuses the President of Embracing ‘Cheating as a Way of Life’

Quote:
The book, “Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man,” depicts a multigenerational saga of greed, betrayal and internecine tension and seeks to explain how President Trump’s position in one of New York’s wealthiest and most infamous real-estate empires helped him acquire what Ms. Trump has referred to as “twisted behaviors” — attributes like seeing other people in “monetary terms” and practicing “cheating as a way of life.”


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Cheating on a College Entrance Test

As a high school student in Queens, Ms. Trump writes, Donald Trump paid someone to take a precollegiate test, the SAT, on his behalf. The high score the proxy earned for him, Ms. Trump adds, helped the young Mr. Trump to later gain admittance as an undergraduate to the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton business school.


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Sending a Brother to the Hospital Alone

It has long been part of the Trump family’s lore that the eldest child of Fred Trump Sr., Fred Trump Jr., who was better known as Freddy, was the black sheep of the dynasty. Freddy Trump was a handsome, garrulous man and a heavy drinker who, after a miserable experience working for his father, left his job in real estate to pursue a passion for flying, becoming a pilot for Trans World Airlines.

Donald Trump has often remarked that his brother’s departure from the family business opened space for him to move into and succeed. “For me, it worked very well,” Mr. Trump told The New York Times during his presidential campaign about serving under his father. “For Fred, it wasn’t something that was going to work.”

Fred Trump Sr. could be brutal to his namesake, shouting at him once as a group of employees looked on, “Donald is worth ten of you,” Ms. Trump writes.

Freddy Trump died in 1981 from an alcohol-induced heart attack when he was 42, and Ms. Trump tells the story in her book about how his family sent him to the hospital alone on the night of his death. No one went with him, Ms. Trump writes.

Donald Trump, she added, went to see a movie.


Quote:
Ms. Trump, a clinical psychologist, asserts that her uncle has all nine clinical criteria for being a narcissist. And yet, she notes, even that label does not capture the full array of the president’s psychological troubles.

“The fact is,” she writes, “Donald’s pathologies are so complex and his behaviors so often inexplicable that coming up with an accurate and comprehensive diagnosis would require a full battery of psychological and neurophysical tests that he’ll never sit for.


Quote:
Like other critics of the president, Ms. Trump takes issue in the book with the notion that Mr. Trump is a strategic thinker who operates according to specific agendas or organizing principles.

“He doesn’t,” she writes. “Donald’s ego has been and is a fragile and inadequate barrier between him and the real world, which, thanks to his father’s money and power, he never had to negotiate by himself.”
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject:

This basically confirms everything LS and others have said about Republicans they know personally. It's like mass hypnosis.

Rolling Stone: What 9 GOP Campaign Consultants Really Think About Republicans’ Chances in November

Quote:
The last 3 months have been a political dumpster fire for President Trump, and the flames have engulfed Republicans up and down the ballot. But while pockets of Republican resistance have roasted Dear Leader, elected officials in D.C. and their svengalis in the consultant class have remained steadfast.


Quote:
I reached out to nine of my former allies and rivals who still consult for Republican candidates at the highest levels of Senate and House races, some who have gone full MAGA and others for whom the president is not their cup of tea. I asked them to speak candidly, without their names attached, to learn about the real behind the scenes conversations about the state of affairs. How is the president’s performance impacting their candidate? Are there discussions about either storming the cockpit or gently trying to #WalkAway from Trump? And finally, why in the hell aren’t they more pissed at this incompetent (bleep) who is (bleep) up their life?


Quote:
What I found in their answers was one part Stockholm Syndrome, one part survival instinct. They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship. And even among those who don’t share the tribalistic hatreds, they perceive a political reality driven by base voters and the president’s (bleep) that simply does not allow for dissent.

As one put it: “There are two options, you can be on this hell ship or you can be in the water drowning.”

So I give you the view from the U.S.S Hellship, first the political state of play, and then the psychological.


Quote:
“Every shred of evidence points to a likely ass kicking in the fall.”
“Well it’s as bad as it gets right now.”
“Right now most campaigns are thanking baby jesus every day the election isn’t held today.”
“I’ve got Trump down in Texas. [Republican Senator Steve] Daines down in Montana.”
“It’s certainly better than public polling, but it’s not good.”
“I told very high ranking people in the Trump Administration that it hasn’t been like this since October of 06” – when President Bush’s numbers were tanking over fallout from the Iraq War, Katrina, and the Mark Foley scandal.


Quote:
This same calculus pervades no matter the race, no matter the district, no matter the geography: The operatives insist that the pro-Trump zealotry the president’s supporters demand makes it far more difficult for candidates to win over anyone else.


Quote:
Suggestions that maybe, just maybe, in the face of these headwinds, that they should try to win back some of the suburban vote and claim their own destiny rather than grabbing a middle seat on Trump Airlines and hope for the best, are met with derision. Trump “sucks the oxygen out of the room from every other candidate” to such a degree that you “can’t run independent of him,” as one put it.


Quote:
But it’s interesting that at a time when the numbers are “as bad as it gets,” the notion of trying to separate from Trump is not even being contemplated. Maybe there is something more to it.


Quote:
But what I found was underneath that surface level eye-rolling at Trump and hat-tipping to the record on judges was an emotional alliance with the president that is deeper than they might let on in mixed company. A compartmentalization of the badness of the orange man, set aside in favor of a deep and visceral hatred of the president’s enemies.


Quote:
So shouldn’t they be pissed at this egomaniacal racist who is making their lives miserable, bringing down their candidates, and affecting their home lives and friendships — simply because he can’t for a single hour control his outbursts? Shouldn’t they be clamoring to tell him to (bleep) off and act like a damn adult and stop putting them in these terrible situations?

When asked, almost to a person, the answer was no.


Trump's non-college base shares his hatred of blacks and anyone who is "the other". GOP politicians and well-off Republicans share Trump's hatred of liberals and the media.

So no, they will not abandon him. You may get a "concerned" out them once in a while, but the entire Republican party is 100% on board and complicit. And they must all be repudiated, first at the ballot box and then whatever other forms that may take. Including telling your racist uncle/co-worker/friend that they are racist and why it's so repugnant. I don't care if they change, they probably won't. But they should be made to feel uncomfortable in their bigotry. If they feel even momentary shame, good. It's not enough for we white-people to not be racist, we must be anti-racist. That means affirmatively standing up for what is right in the face of ignorance and hatred. Because who else is going to do it?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject:

People probably have a Constitutional right to be prejudiced (but not racist).

Regardless: F#ck 'em!

I won't waste my time trying to reason with them...change them...show them the error of their ways. God can take care of that, if/when that moment occurs.

Insofar as what I'll do to combat racism: I won't act in racist ways, even though I, too, as a non-white, have my own prejudices. I will vote to further the cause of equality and justice for all, but I will not get into it with racists.

Having been in jail for a felony crime, I learned to get along with the other "races"...even though one of them--whites--practiced a notable "white" agenda.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Human history is full of awful things. But we're living in 2020 and it seems like all it's doing is unite his base, but that won't be enough.


I admire your optimism, but Trump hasn't just held his base. He's inspired a virulence to it we haven't seen until now. As election day draws near and Trump's re-election seems imperiled to those on the right, they are going to dig in and defend come November. Their newly consolidated affirmation to be open about their racism and hatred is going to bring more of the far right Republicans to the polls than were in 2016.

Meanwhile, on the Left, people are saying, "he's gone too far. People will clearly see that and even some Republicans will vote against him" and such people will in turn become complacent and stay home, just like they did in 2016 because the polls told them Hilary had it in the bag.

The more hideous Trump becomes, the more emboldened his supporters become. There is no one on the Right who is working to reduce that. We get sucked into the "Well Lindsey Graham kind of criticized Trump." sense of security. But meanwhile, everyone in the GOP that matters is full bore Trump.

Watching what is going on in the country in regards to the pandemic and BLM etc. right now, we are in far more precarious a situation than we were in 2016.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.


I think you're stuck in the 2016 mindset. It's tempting to think that way, but you can't win an election in which you think everything will go right for the other side and nothing will go right for your side, but somehow hoping you're wrong. If Democrats collectively had that mindset, I don't think it would turn out positive. I know you don't want people to become complacent (you've been making that point for months) by assuming that Trump will lose, but I'm not sure thinking he'll win is the best way to motivate your base either. There's a nice balance of optimism and focus. That's how Obama won. We had the optimism in 2016 (we all thought Hillary had it in the bag), but we didn't have the right focus, primarily because Trump had no record to run on, no four years of chaos, no 130,000 dead people, no economic collapse, etc. You minimized those things in your post, which happen to be the most important factors of this election on our side. You left out the motivation, the anger, the numbers of the majority of this country. You left out the biggest electoral landslide in a generation in 2018.

In a bizarre scenario in which every single thing went his way, he won by 77,000 votes. While not forgetting what happened in 2016 (I will never shake off that disappointment as long as I live), we live in the reality of 2020. And all indications are that Trump is in big trouble electorally. His response was to go 100% racist to motivate his base, which he might very well do, in addition to more reluctant Republicans that are not necessarily part of his base but always vote Republican. He wouldn't be doing this if he was in the lead. And let's assume he has a big turnout among his supporters, that's still not enough to win the election if we show up and we have plenty of powerful reasons to vote. And I don't think that being overly pessimistic for months will erase all complacency among our electorate. I think it's more likely it will result in the saddest campaign ever. Fortunately, there's plenty of hope and focus among most Democrats.


Well first of all, anyone who has read any of my posts in this thread over the last 4 years know I in no way minimize the atrocious behavior and actions of Trump's horrendous Presidency. I have been clear in the intensity of my outrage for the atrocious things he has said and done and the contempt I have for the atmosphere he has created. It is because of the level of my outrage is so high, I am staggered by the complete lack of moral and ethical decency demonstrated by the Republicans. Their aggressive refusal to insistent on any accountability whatsoever for all the destructive and outright illegal activities of this President has lead to an erosion of the sense of what the office is about and the need to keep in check. The things that occur on a daily basis that should be the end of presidency are ignored by the Right, and as a result, the level of acceptance for such acts grows and they have become normalized. Noting that important fact is not minimizing them in any fashion.

Secondly, I mention 2016 not because I am somehow "stuck" there and I think the same situations exist today. I mention 2016 because things are so radically different than they were then for the reasons I mention above. I think if anyone in November of 2016 was told the place we would be in as a Nation now, with four months to go to the 2020 election, no one would believe the depths of depravity Trump has brought to the office. And part of that disbelief would be based on the belief that there would be no way that even staunch Republican leaders would stand for the action and words of any President. Just look to Watergate. What Nixon did pales in comparison the volumes of dangerous, destructive and un-democratic acts of Trump, but the Republicans actually had the decency to see Nixon's Presidency has passed the level of acceptance. Now look to Trump . . . crickets.

You see me as being dismissive of the magnitude of the things Trump has done. But to my mind, people are being dismissive of the magnitude of the corruption and complicity that has enveloped the Republicans and the very real threat that poses to the results of the coming election. You say all we have to do as Democrats is vote, as if that is a complete given and will simply offset the efforts of Trump and the Republicans to steal another election in a world were the Republicans not only condone Trump's corruption and their party before country convictions.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Trump's non-college base shares his hatred of blacks and anyone who is "the other". GOP politicians and well-off Republicans share Trump's hatred of liberals and the media.

So no, they will not abandon him. You may get a "concerned" out them once in a while, but the entire Republican party is 100% on board and complicit. And they must all be repudiated, first at the ballot box and then whatever other forms that may take. Including telling your racist uncle/co-worker/friend that they are racist and why it's so repugnant. I don't care if they change, they probably won't. But they should be made to feel uncomfortable in their bigotry. If they feel even momentary shame, good. It's not enough for we white-people to not be racist, we must be anti-racist. That means affirmatively standing up for what is right in the face of ignorance and hatred. Because who else is going to do it?


Great article. Great analysis. Great post from top to bottom.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
This basically confirms everything LS and others have said about Republicans they know personally. It's like mass hypnosis.

Rolling Stone: What 9 GOP Campaign Consultants Really Think About Republicans’ Chances in November



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
2 things worry me about this election.
1) Republicans throughout history have shown a god-like ability to hold their nose and vote for "their guy". No matter what.
2) Trump will cheat (and get away with it if he wins).

It's hard enough to oust an incumbent when they aren't breaking the law to win


And every Republican out there will be voting to ensure their guys stays in office. He's done far too much to further their aims in ways they couldn't have imagined . . . and they want more.
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And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

Trumps pulled out all stops. He's gone flat out racist. He's no longer hiding it. I believe it will be his undoing.
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Last edited by jodeke on Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
This basically confirms everything LS and others have said about Republicans they know personally. It's like mass hypnosis.

Rolling Stone: What 9 GOP Campaign Consultants Really Think About Republicans’ Chances in November

Quote:
The last 3 months have been a political dumpster fire for President Trump, and the flames have engulfed Republicans up and down the ballot. But while pockets of Republican resistance have roasted Dear Leader, elected officials in D.C. and their svengalis in the consultant class have remained steadfast.


Quote:
I reached out to nine of my former allies and rivals who still consult for Republican candidates at the highest levels of Senate and House races, some who have gone full MAGA and others for whom the president is not their cup of tea. I asked them to speak candidly, without their names attached, to learn about the real behind the scenes conversations about the state of affairs. How is the president’s performance impacting their candidate? Are there discussions about either storming the cockpit or gently trying to #WalkAway from Trump? And finally, why in the hell aren’t they more pissed at this incompetent (bleep) who is (bleep) up their life?


Quote:
What I found in their answers was one part Stockholm Syndrome, one part survival instinct. They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship. And even among those who don’t share the tribalistic hatreds, they perceive a political reality driven by base voters and the president’s (bleep) that simply does not allow for dissent.

As one put it: “There are two options, you can be on this hell ship or you can be in the water drowning.”

So I give you the view from the U.S.S Hellship, first the political state of play, and then the psychological.


Quote:
“Every shred of evidence points to a likely ass kicking in the fall.”
“Well it’s as bad as it gets right now.”
“Right now most campaigns are thanking baby jesus every day the election isn’t held today.”
“I’ve got Trump down in Texas. [Republican Senator Steve] Daines down in Montana.”
“It’s certainly better than public polling, but it’s not good.”
“I told very high ranking people in the Trump Administration that it hasn’t been like this since October of 06” – when President Bush’s numbers were tanking over fallout from the Iraq War, Katrina, and the Mark Foley scandal.


Quote:
This same calculus pervades no matter the race, no matter the district, no matter the geography: The operatives insist that the pro-Trump zealotry the president’s supporters demand makes it far more difficult for candidates to win over anyone else.


Quote:
Suggestions that maybe, just maybe, in the face of these headwinds, that they should try to win back some of the suburban vote and claim their own destiny rather than grabbing a middle seat on Trump Airlines and hope for the best, are met with derision. Trump “sucks the oxygen out of the room from every other candidate” to such a degree that you “can’t run independent of him,” as one put it.


Quote:
But it’s interesting that at a time when the numbers are “as bad as it gets,” the notion of trying to separate from Trump is not even being contemplated. Maybe there is something more to it.


Quote:
But what I found was underneath that surface level eye-rolling at Trump and hat-tipping to the record on judges was an emotional alliance with the president that is deeper than they might let on in mixed company. A compartmentalization of the badness of the orange man, set aside in favor of a deep and visceral hatred of the president’s enemies.


Quote:
So shouldn’t they be pissed at this egomaniacal racist who is making their lives miserable, bringing down their candidates, and affecting their home lives and friendships — simply because he can’t for a single hour control his outbursts? Shouldn’t they be clamoring to tell him to (bleep) off and act like a damn adult and stop putting them in these terrible situations?

When asked, almost to a person, the answer was no.


Trump's non-college base shares his hatred of blacks and anyone who is "the other". GOP politicians and well-off Republicans share Trump's hatred of liberals and the media.

So no, they will not abandon him. You may get a "concerned" out them once in a while, but the entire Republican party is 100% on board and complicit. And they must all be repudiated, first at the ballot box and then whatever other forms that may take. Including telling your racist uncle/co-worker/friend that they are racist and why it's so repugnant. I don't care if they change, they probably won't. But they should be made to feel uncomfortable in their bigotry. If they feel even momentary shame, good. It's not enough for we white-people to not be racist, we must be anti-racist. That means affirmatively standing up for what is right in the face of ignorance and hatred. Because who else is going to do it?


This can't be ignored or underestimated.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:

Last weekend, I had a conversation with a neighbor...a woman whose husband is a cop. I asked how he was doing with all the social unrest and for the first time our conversation turned from light chit-chat to politics and race. Her perspective: That the BLM movement is extremist, that they've hailed Floyd as a hero/martyr when he has a terrible track record, that the looters have spoiled forever any positive that can come out of the protests, and that police have ben unfairly villified through all this. She said she doesn't like Trump, but she feels forced to vote for him anyway because of the extremists on the left.

So much to unpack. The first place I want was: "You don't think Biden is a leftist extremist, do you?" She backtracked. "Well, no...you are probably right." I said, "My perspective, the George Floyd protests triggered something bigger, but it really isn't about him. It's about people feeling like they haven't been treated fairly. When they say 'Black Lives Matter', they aren't saying black lives matter more than anyone elses, they are saying black lives matter as much as anyone elses. And if a small percentage of the protesters looting ruins it for all the peaceful protesters, does that not also mean that a small percentage of bad cops ruin it for all the good ones like your husband?"

I'm not sure it will make any difference, but I felt compelled to go there. Perhaps I should have gone further...but that is where we left things.


Not can this be ignored or underestimated it's potential effect come November.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject:

Leave nothing to chance. Check your registration status at the link below. Be sure and

GET OUT AND VOTE!!!!

LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


Last edited by jodeke on Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
This basically confirms everything LS and others have said about Republicans they know personally. It's like mass hypnosis.

Rolling Stone: What 9 GOP Campaign Consultants Really Think About Republicans’ Chances in November

Quote:
The last 3 months have been a political dumpster fire for President Trump, and the flames have engulfed Republicans up and down the ballot. But while pockets of Republican resistance have roasted Dear Leader, elected officials in D.C. and their svengalis in the consultant class have remained steadfast.


Quote:
I reached out to nine of my former allies and rivals who still consult for Republican candidates at the highest levels of Senate and House races, some who have gone full MAGA and others for whom the president is not their cup of tea. I asked them to speak candidly, without their names attached, to learn about the real behind the scenes conversations about the state of affairs. How is the president’s performance impacting their candidate? Are there discussions about either storming the cockpit or gently trying to #WalkAway from Trump? And finally, why in the hell aren’t they more pissed at this incompetent (bleep) who is (bleep) up their life?


Quote:
What I found in their answers was one part Stockholm Syndrome, one part survival instinct. They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship. And even among those who don’t share the tribalistic hatreds, they perceive a political reality driven by base voters and the president’s (bleep) that simply does not allow for dissent.

As one put it: “There are two options, you can be on this hell ship or you can be in the water drowning.”

So I give you the view from the U.S.S Hellship, first the political state of play, and then the psychological.


Quote:
“Every shred of evidence points to a likely ass kicking in the fall.”
“Well it’s as bad as it gets right now.”
“Right now most campaigns are thanking baby jesus every day the election isn’t held today.”
“I’ve got Trump down in Texas. [Republican Senator Steve] Daines down in Montana.”
“It’s certainly better than public polling, but it’s not good.”
“I told very high ranking people in the Trump Administration that it hasn’t been like this since October of 06” – when President Bush’s numbers were tanking over fallout from the Iraq War, Katrina, and the Mark Foley scandal.


Quote:
This same calculus pervades no matter the race, no matter the district, no matter the geography: The operatives insist that the pro-Trump zealotry the president’s supporters demand makes it far more difficult for candidates to win over anyone else.


Quote:
Suggestions that maybe, just maybe, in the face of these headwinds, that they should try to win back some of the suburban vote and claim their own destiny rather than grabbing a middle seat on Trump Airlines and hope for the best, are met with derision. Trump “sucks the oxygen out of the room from every other candidate” to such a degree that you “can’t run independent of him,” as one put it.


Quote:
But it’s interesting that at a time when the numbers are “as bad as it gets,” the notion of trying to separate from Trump is not even being contemplated. Maybe there is something more to it.


Quote:
But what I found was underneath that surface level eye-rolling at Trump and hat-tipping to the record on judges was an emotional alliance with the president that is deeper than they might let on in mixed company. A compartmentalization of the badness of the orange man, set aside in favor of a deep and visceral hatred of the president’s enemies.


Quote:
So shouldn’t they be pissed at this egomaniacal racist who is making their lives miserable, bringing down their candidates, and affecting their home lives and friendships — simply because he can’t for a single hour control his outbursts? Shouldn’t they be clamoring to tell him to (bleep) off and act like a damn adult and stop putting them in these terrible situations?

When asked, almost to a person, the answer was no.


Trump's non-college base shares his hatred of blacks and anyone who is "the other". GOP politicians and well-off Republicans share Trump's hatred of liberals and the media.

So no, they will not abandon him. You may get a "concerned" out them once in a while, but the entire Republican party is 100% on board and complicit. And they must all be repudiated, first at the ballot box and then whatever other forms that may take. Including telling your racist uncle/co-worker/friend that they are racist and why it's so repugnant. I don't care if they change, they probably won't. But they should be made to feel uncomfortable in their bigotry. If they feel even momentary shame, good. It's not enough for we white-people to not be racist, we must be anti-racist. That means affirmatively standing up for what is right in the face of ignorance and hatred. Because who else is going to do it?


This is very disturbing. It's shocking that so many are willing to go down with the Trump ship, that their hatred of Democrats is so visceral.

Last weekend, I had a conversation with a neighbor...a woman whose husband is a cop. I asked how he was doing with all the social unrest and for the first time our conversation turned from light chit-chat to politics and race. Her perspective: That the BLM movement is extremist, that they've hailed Floyd as a hero/martyr when he has a terrible track record, that the looters have spoiled forever any positive that can come out of the protests, and that police have ben unfairly villified through all this. She said she doesn't like Trump, but she feels forced to vote for him anyway because of the extremists on the left.

So much to unpack. The first place I want was: "You don't think Biden is a leftist extremist, do you?" She backtracked. "Well, no...you are probably right." I said, "My perspective, the George Floyd protests triggered something bigger, but it really isn't about him. It's about people feeling like they haven't been treated fairly. When they say 'Black Lives Matter', they aren't saying black lives matter more than anyone elses, they are saying black lives matter as much as anyone elses. And if a small percentage of the protesters looting ruins it for all the peaceful protesters, does that not also mean that a small percentage of bad cops ruin it for all the good ones like your husband?"

I'm not sure it will make any difference, but I felt compelled to go there. Perhaps I should have gone further...but that is where we left things.


What you're likely dealing with is someone who is going to vote Trump because minorities, liberals, et al, are a perceived danger to her white, middle class, cop's wife existence as she knows it. So no matter what argument you make, she's going to either stick with her reason or simply find a new justification to achieve the goal she's going to achieve anyway: rationalizing her support of the GOP and Trump.

The thing most people don't realize is that most of these voters have been giving us the lazy susan of "pick a rationalization" for why they vote GOP for years. And Trump isn't pitching something new to them, so he's either a slightly bigger rationalization or a freedom from rationalization, depending on the person. But either way they are voting for him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Trumps pulled out all stops. He's gone flat out racist. He's no longer hiding it. I believe it will be his undoing.


you'd be surprise how many closet racist are in this country. people in this country hate being political correct even though they know the opposite is wrong. those folks need someone to voice their opinion without any consequences to themselves. another word, ton of closet racists and anti-political correctness folks need a front man like Trump. i wouldn't be surprised he wins in November. i hope i'm wrong though.
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