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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
tlim wrote:
I've always felt that the efforts against Pelosi were really just misogyny.

Love what she has done and will do.


You know why? . . . Because that is exactly what it is.


Really? You can’t disagree with some of the policies she has supported and her reluctance to support other policies (like Medicare For All)? You can’t be against corporatism in the Democratic Party, of which she plays a significant role and crave something different? It has to be misogyny?


Plenty of men have similar positions and don't get the amount of flack that she does. I wonder what the difference is . . .


I have substantive differences with Surf, but I will vouch for him on the fact that he views all the mainstream democrats pretty equally. He’s an exception though.


Where did I imply otherwise?
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
Quote:
Federal prosecutors have concluded that President Donald Trump participated in federal crimes when he directed his former personal attorney Michael Cohen to commit campaign finance violations by paying off two women during his 2016 campaign.

The conclusion was drawn by federal prosecutors from the Southern District of New York, who on Friday filed a sentencing memo suggesting that Cohen serve a “substantial” prison sentence of 51 to 63 months. While they found Trump to be complicit in Cohen's crimes, no formal charge has been rendered against the president.


Dun Dun Duuunnn




So how long before the Southern District formally names Trump and officially files charges? Are they likely leaking all of the "Individual 1" mentions to Trumps team so they can get their affairs in order prior to official charges being made so the carnage is as orderly as possible? Or are they likely to wait until December 23rd and present him with a little Christmas present of those charges?


If SDNY files charges, I imagine there will be appeals up to the Supreme Court (where we don't have the numbers).
There's a great debate about whether a sitting President can be charged. The fact that it's state charges makes it interesting though.

I think Mueller has more. Filing charges against Trump is easy. Making a bulletproof case for impeachment is probably the goal (even though it's probably impossible).


I made the same mistake in interpretation initially, but these are not State charges. These are violations of federal law, yet SDNY is releasing this information without filing charges. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out the endgame here. Are they waiting until the new Congress is seated to see if they have the stomach for Impeachment proceedings? Clearly they know the Senate won't convict, so why wait for the new Congress when it's clear they believe they have the goods to charge the miscreant? They have an endgame, but I can't figure out their strategy with regards to Chief Dufus?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here


Thankfully, younger voters disagree with you.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The Right-Wing Media Can't Quit Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvqeaq/the-right-wing-media-cant-quit-alexandria-ocasio-cortez

Damn. Republicans really love to hate women.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here

You do realize that voting for a 3rd party would give Trump the Oval Office in 2020 don't you? You say you're of the "younger generation" so I'll assume you don't remember Ross Perot. 3 party may some day be the system, now is not the time. Trump is dangerous to democracy.He wants a monarchy. He wants to be king.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here

You do realize that voting for a 3rd party would give Trump the Oval Office in 2020 don't you? You say you're of the "younger generation" so I'll assume you don't remember Ross Perot. 3 party may some day be the system, now is not the time. Trump is dangerous to democracy.He wants a monarchy. He wants to be king.


Are you suggesting that if there were no Ross Perot we would have had a 2 nd term of Bush instead of Bill Clinton, and that would have been a better result?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject:

Kelly is out.


He has ruined his reputation as he exposed himself as a liar and a bigot.

The press never really condemned him the way they should have - especially for lying about a Congresswoman - but I guess one reason for that was that he was probably their main anonymous source all these months.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
tlim wrote:
I've always felt that the efforts against Pelosi were really just misogyny.

Love what she has done and will do.


You know why? . . . Because that is exactly what it is.


Really? You can’t disagree with some of the policies she has supported and her reluctance to support other policies (like Medicare For All)? You can’t be against corporatism in the Democratic Party, of which she plays a significant role and crave something different? It has to be misogyny?


Plenty of men have similar positions and don't get the amount of flack that she does. I wonder what the difference is . . .


I have substantive differences with Surf, but I will vouch for him on the fact that he views all the mainstream democrats pretty equally. He’s an exception though.


Where did I imply otherwise?


I didn’t read in one way or the other whether you were implying Surf was one of those people (it was ambiguous). I was just making sure the point was made.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here


I think someone might be a little behind and still reading all the propaganda bots from the last election.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here


I think someone might be a little behind and still reading all the propaganda bots from the last election.


I was just really drunk lol. But I still think a third party is needed
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
James Comey testimony transcript released by House committtees

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/08/james-comey-testimony-transcript-released-house-committtees

Transcript: https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Comey-interview-transcript-12-7-18_Redacted-1.pdf
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here

You do realize that voting for a 3rd party would give Trump the Oval Office in 2020 don't you? You say you're of the "younger generation" so I'll assume you don't remember Ross Perot. 3 party may some day be the system, now is not the time. Trump is dangerous to democracy.He wants a monarchy. He wants to be king.


Are you suggesting that if there were no Ross Perot we would have had a 2 nd term of Bush instead of Bill Clinton, and that would have been a better result?


There was a possibility of a 2 term Bush without Perot. Would that have been a better result, NO.
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here

You do realize that voting for a 3rd party would give Trump the Oval Office in 2020 don't you? You say you're of the "younger generation" so I'll assume you don't remember Ross Perot. 3 party may some day be the system, now is not the time. Trump is dangerous to democracy.He wants a monarchy. He wants to be king.


Are you suggesting that if there were no Ross Perot we would have had a 2 nd term of Bush instead of Bill Clinton, and that would have been a better result?


There was a possibility of a 2 term Bush without Perot. Would that have been a better result, NO.


In '92, Bush was the incumbent, as Trump is now. Perot ran as a 3rd party candidate and Bush lost the race. The equivalent if a 3rd party candidate ran would be Trump losing the White House.

Then in '96 Perot ran as a 3rd party candidate against Clinton as the incumbent and Clinton prevailed.

So if one believes a 3rd party candidate is a difference maker, then it would appear to be conclusive just who that difference would favor since Perot ran in an election in '92 against an incumbent and the incumbent lost. Then he ran again in '96, and the incumbent won. But both times he ran, the Republican candidate lost and the Democrat candidate won. So to use Perot as an example would mean that a 3rd party candidate favors the Democrat, if we're using his history as the example.
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Last edited by Aussiesuede on Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject:

It depends on what types of voters the third-party candidates draws. Nader drew more potential Gore voters. Jill Stein drew more potential Clinton voters.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
What we need to do is vote for a third party no matter what happens because me and the younger generation, we are so jaded we will never believe in what the dems or reps believe.

If you thinkk voting for the same two parties will change anything you are wrong and it starts here

You do realize that voting for a 3rd party would give Trump the Oval Office in 2020 don't you? You say you're of the "younger generation" so I'll assume you don't remember Ross Perot. 3 party may some day be the system, now is not the time. Trump is dangerous to democracy.He wants a monarchy. He wants to be king.


Are you suggesting that if there were no Ross Perot we would have had a 2 nd term of Bush instead of Bill Clinton, and that would have been a better result?


There was a possibility of a 2 term Bush without Perot. Would that have been a better result, NO.


In '92, Bush was the incumbent, as Trump is now. Perot ran as a 3rd party candidate and Bush lost the race. The equivalent if a 3rd party candidate ran would be Trump losing the White House.

Then in '96 Perot ran as a 3rd party candidate against Clinton as the incumbent and Clinton prevailed.

So if one believes a 3rd party candidate is a difference maker, then it would appear to be inconclusive just who that difference would favor since Perot ran in an election in '92 against an incumbent and the incumbent lost. Then he ran again in '96, and the incumbent won. But both times he ran, the Republican candidate lost and the Democrat candidate won. So to use Perot as an example would mean that a 3rd party candidate favors the Democrat, if we're using his history as the example.

In today's political climate I believe that dynamic would not hold true. Trump has a solid base and closet voters that would vote for him. IMO a third party candidate would hurt the democratic candidate more than Trump.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
It depends on what types of voters the third-party candidates draws. Nader drew more potential Gore voters. Jill Stein drew more potential Clinton voters.


Exactly. But pretty much every time I hear Perot's candidacy mentioned, it's in the vein of him having been a threat to the Democrat candidate, and I've never understood that since he was a prototypical "NAFTA: That Giant Sucking Sound" fiscal conservative, and it was clear he would draw the fiscally conservative libertarians that trended towards voting Republican at the time. In a lot of ways Trump stole Perot's playbook in solidifying the socially conservative voters, some of whom would have normally voted for the Democrat candidate (ie Rust Belt Americans who had their union jobs decimated and have never really been socially progressive but voted for Democrats primarily because it was good for their job safety)

So in the current climate, a socially conservative Democrat would run well in the Rust Belt and would draw Trump voters that aren't comfortable with all the slime that eminates from that candidate. Conversely, a socially progressive Democrat would be a disaster in the Rust belt running against Trump, something the "Bernie First" supporters easily glossed over during the last election.

That's why I cringe every time I hear folks talking up a socially progressive candidate for 2020. It signals that they don't get that many Rust Belt Democrats are every bit as socially bigoted and conservative as their Republican counterparts and that doesn't necessarily serve the interest of the Democrat party ESPECIALLY if there are no apparent headwinds in their jobs outlook.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Hundreds of thousands of black voters in rust-belt states were disenfranchised in the 2016 election cycle by state Republicans purging voter rolls and restrictive voter ID laws targeting them. Those votes alone would have swung those states Democratic.

Democrats don't need to chase down racist white working class voters. The newly elected Democratic governors need to repair the damage done to voting rights, expand the base and register new voters and young voters. Learn from 2018. The candidates did not pander to WWC. They talked about real issues and real policies but did not shy away from social issues. Women candidates won, gay candidates won, Muslim candidates won, black candidates won, vet candidates won.

Progressive issues and Democratic policies appeal to populations in cities and the suburbs. It's only rural America that wants to live in their cloistered past. There's nothing Democrats can do about that except outvote them where they can be outvoted.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
It depends on what types of voters the third-party candidates draws. Nader drew more potential Gore voters. Jill Stein drew more potential Clinton voters.


Exactly. But pretty much every time I hear Perot's candidacy mentioned, it's in the vein of him having been a threat to the Democrat candidate, and I've never understood that since he was a prototypical "NAFTA: That Giant Sucking Sound" fiscal conservative, and it was clear he would draw the fiscally conservative libertarians that trended towards voting Republican at the time. In a lot of ways Trump stole Perot's playbook in solidifying the socially conservative voters, some of whom would have normally voted for the Democrat candidate (ie Rust Belt Americans who had their union jobs decimated and have never really been socially progressive but voted for Democrats primarily because it was good for their job safety)

So in the current climate, a socially conservative Democrat would run well in the Rust Belt and would draw Trump voters that aren't comfortable with all the slime that eminates from that candidate. Conversely, a socially progressive Democrat would be a disaster in the Rust belt running against Trump, something the "Bernie First" supporters easily glossed over during the last election.

That's why I cringe every time I hear folks talking up a socially progressive candidate for 2020. It signals that they don't get that many Rust Belt Democrats are every bit as socially bigoted and conservative as their Republican counterparts and that doesn't necessarily serve the interest of the Democrat party ESPECIALLY if there are no apparent headwinds in their jobs outlook.

Win the suburbs in the midwest states that Trump flipped (minus Ohio which looks solid red) and you can beat Trump even while losing those same Trump-Obama voters. Democrats don't need these voters; they just need to keep the suburban (women) voters who flipped to Democrat in the midterms and get turnout high on the rest of their base.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Props to Ammon Bundy.
Hopefully more people open the eyes of their heart and speak out against hate and racism.

Quote:
Ammon Bundy spoke kindly about the migrant caravan. The backlash has him reevaluating his supporters.


Quote:
“I was asked multiple times from different various individuals what I thought about these caravans, and I didn’t know, to be honest with you. I didn’t know the facts,” he said. “So I began to research and try to determine the facts."

[Cliven Bundy’s fight against the feds has roots in interpretation of Mormon scripture]

His verdict on the caravan, which he delivered in a 17-minute video at the time, broke sharply with Trump-aligned orthodoxy on the issue. In the run-up to the midterm elections, Trump repeatedly disparaged the caravan as an “invasion," a national security threat requiring the emergency deployment of thousands of U.S. troops.

“He has basically called them all criminals,” Bundy said of Trump in the video. “What about the fathers, the mothers, the children, who have come here and are willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually by criminals?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/08/ammon-bundy-spoke-kindly-about-migrant-caravan-backlash-has-him-rethinking-his-supporters/?utm_term=.45eaf39609c8
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject:

^ when the wackiest of the wacky break from president wacko the must be near ..get QAnon on the case
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject:

trump sycophants think that everyone should be held accountable for their actions...everyone that is except trump.

those people really scare me
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The Russian ambassador. A deputy prime minister. A pop star, a weightlifter, a lawyer, a Soviet army veteran with alleged intelligence ties.

Again and again and again, over the course of Donald Trump’s 18-month campaign for the presidency, Russian citizens made contact with his closest family and friends, as well as figures on the periphery of his orbit.

Some offered to help his campaign and his real estate business. Some offered dirt on his Democratic opponent. Repeatedly, Russian nationals suggested Trump should hold a peacemaking sit-down with Vladi­mir Putin — and offered to broker such a summit.

In all, Russians interacted with at least 14 Trump associates during the campaign and presidential transition, public records and interviews show.

Quote:
“It is extremely unusual,” said Michael McFaul, who served as ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama. “Both the number of contacts and the nature of the contacts are extraordinary.”


The mounting number of communications that have been revealed occurred against the backdrop of “sustained efforts by the Russian government to interfere with the U.S. presidential election,” as Mueller’s prosecutors wrote in a court filing last week.

The special counsel’s filings have also revealed moments when Russia appeared to be taking cues from Trump. In July 2016, the then-GOP candidate said at a news conference, “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” referring to messages Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton had deleted from a private account. That day, the Russians made their first effort to break into servers used by Clinton’s personal office.


The Trail Leads To
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject:

U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/2017/01/05/d7099406-d355-11e6-9cb0-54ab630851e8_story.html?utm_term=.e3a8210ee73f

Quote:
The classified document, which officials said is over 50 pages, was delivered to President Obama on Thursday, and it is expected to be presented to Trump in New York on Friday by the nation’s top spy officials, including Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. and CIA Director John Brennan.


January 5, 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
tlim wrote:
I've always felt that the efforts against Pelosi were really just misogyny.

Love what she has done and will do.


You know why? . . . Because that is exactly what it is.


Really? You can’t disagree with some of the policies she has supported and her reluctance to support other policies (like Medicare For All)? You can’t be against corporatism in the Democratic Party, of which she plays a significant role and crave something different? It has to be misogyny?


Plenty of men have similar positions and don't get the amount of flack that she does. I wonder what the difference is . . .


I have substantive differences with Surf, but I will vouch for him on the fact that he views all the mainstream democrats pretty equally. He’s an exception though.


Where did I imply otherwise?


I didn’t read in one way or the other whether you were implying Surf was one of those people (it was ambiguous). I was just making sure the point was made.


Much obliged.

Back to the topic at hand...Da Mule...you wonder what the difference is? It could be that she’s a woman. It could also be that she’s speaker of the house and gets the extra attention because of the power one in that role can wield.

There is no question that misogyny exists and that has been used against Pelosi, especially from the right. But to make a blanket statement that the efforts against Pelosi were really just misogyny is ignoring the policies many Progressives in the party are passionate about, and which Pelosi hedges or downright disagrees with. Hell, Ocasio-Cortez-Cortez joined protesters in her office just a couple weeks ago to demand faster action on climate change.

I say this about Pelosi though, she skillfully managed to get the new young progressives on her side and the reality is everyone else who was even considering running against Pelosi was to the right of her, so the progressives went with the best possible option at this time. It will be interesting to see how her Speakership plays outover the coming years.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Now
Russia'a
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