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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | LaVine will take away our need for Rose. Who are we driving to the airport? I know it’s a pipe dream but this kid belongs in LA. |
Short of a miraculous infatuation with Kuzma on the part of the Bulls FO, I just don't see us having the assets. Kuzma + THT? Surely another team can top that. |
(bleep) (bleep) |
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Mamba81
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | LaVine will take away our need for Rose. Who are we driving to the airport? I know it’s a pipe dream but this kid belongs in LA. |
Short of a miraculous infatuation with Kuzma on the part of the Bulls FO, I just don't see us having the assets. Kuzma + THT? Surely another team can top that. |
forreal. this is when i start hating not having a single 1st rd pick
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Zach LaVine would be amazing but we just don’t have the assets to get a deal done, if we had a 1st round pick to dangle then maybe the Bulls would listen but we don’t. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba81 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | LaVine will take away our need for Rose. Who are we driving to the airport? I know it’s a pipe dream but this kid belongs in LA. |
Short of a miraculous infatuation with Kuzma on the part of the Bulls FO, I just don't see us having the assets. Kuzma + THT? Surely another team can top that. |
forreal. this is when i start hating not having a single 1st rd pick |
God, a 1st would be such a game-changer. Kuzma + 1st + THT + Danny Green (who himself could maybe net a 2nd, maybe 2?) That's a package. In today's NBA, no star player (Lavine is technically not an allstar, but he's playing like one this year and Chicago definitely considers him that), can go out in a trade without picks coming back. You're seen as losing the trade if you don't get at least a 1st. |
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babyskyhook
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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Location: The Garden Island
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | The top tier teams to me:
Bucks (0-1)
Clippers (0-2)
Celtics (0-1)
Raptors (0-1)
Nuggets (1-1)
Jazz (2-0)
Dallas (2-1)
Sixers (haven't played)
What the top 4 teams have in common: big scoring wings.
Nuggets and Jazz: we match up well against these teams, which is what playoffs are all about: matchups. They may kill teams we struggle against, but AD is able to neutralize their strength. Jokic cannot keep up with AD defensively but AD can. AD also pulls Gobert out to the 3 point line, where his rim protector impact is neutralized. Neither team had a big scoring wing to hit us where we're vulnerable...until the Nuggets started playing MPJ. That's a huge thing to keep an eye on. If we play them again and lose, and he goes off on us, i expect a lot of "meh, we're 2-2 against them nbd," but we wont' be 2-2 against the same Nuggets team.
Dallas? They've played us well. Needed an OT and a Luka concussion to win the first one. Got our asses kicked at home the 2nd time. Convincing win the third time, but they didn't have Porzingis in that one. I don't really consider them a serious contender, but their star player is only 20 years old. And they have the ammunition to add the kind of player that we struggle against.
Overall, we're 2-6 against teams with a big scoring wing. We will most certainly have to get past the Clippers to make the Finals, and my money is on Bucks and MAYBE the Celtics in the East. We're a combined 0-4 against them. I think it's totally rational to be concerned about the makeup of our team. |
Spot on. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: |
All the roster moves aren't great, we get that. Some good, some not so good. Other than Green, everyone else came at a bargain price compared to the market.
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McGee was not a bargain. He was over market and get got a PO, giving him a no trade rights.
Even Cook was an overpay at $3m. Not much, but still if you take McGee and Cook's cap-space and spend it on one player, you get Derrick Rose at $7m. |
The minimum is $500K less... hardly an overpay |
Which is why you force him to take the min, so you have the entire cap-space to use. |
I don't know that we could have gotten McGee for less. He was coming off a good season and generated interest.
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It is supply and demand - which team at that time could have paid more for McGee and would have been interested in him?
Lakers also had other options, I don't think we have a major drop-off if we signed WCS or Noel for the min instead of McGee.
I would much rather have those 2 + $7m in cap-space (McGee and Cook) than McGee for $4m and being unable to trade him. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if NO would ease protections to give us our 1st back in an E'twaun for Cook/Rondo and our 2023 2nd. They save 3 million and scoop up a 2nd. Now we have an 8.6 million dollar salary chip. Rondo would maybe waive his NTC since he knows NO and maybe could ingratiate himself with Zion and get him to squeeze out one more contract. Otherwise, maybe a promise he gets waived and the Lakers will add him to our coaching staff? (With a guaranteed "Rondo Has Been An Amazing Addition to the Coaching Staff" press leak from Vogel). |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | The top tier teams to me:
Bucks (0-1)
Clippers (0-2)
Celtics (0-1)
Raptors (0-1)
Nuggets (1-1)
Jazz (2-0)
Dallas (2-1)
Sixers (haven't played)
What the top 4 teams have in common: big scoring wings.
Nuggets and Jazz: we match up well against these teams, which is what playoffs are all about: matchups. They may kill teams we struggle against, but AD is able to neutralize their strength. Jokic cannot keep up with AD defensively but AD can. AD also pulls Gobert out to the 3 point line, where his rim protector impact is neutralized. Neither team had a big scoring wing to hit us where we're vulnerable...until the Nuggets started playing MPJ. That's a huge thing to keep an eye on. If we play them again and lose, and he goes off on us, i expect a lot of "meh, we're 2-2 against them nbd," but we wont' be 2-2 against the same Nuggets team.
Dallas? They've played us well. Needed an OT and a Luka concussion to win the first one. Got our asses kicked at home the 2nd time. Convincing win the third time, but they didn't have Porzingis in that one. I don't really consider them a serious contender, but their star player is only 20 years old. And they have the ammunition to add the kind of player that we struggle against.
Overall, we're 2-6 against teams with a big scoring wing. We will most certainly have to get past the Clippers to make the Finals, and my money is on Bucks and MAYBE the Celtics in the East. We're a combined 0-4 against them. I think it's totally rational to be concerned about the makeup of our team. |
We can also put asterisk next to each for the Lakers.
Celtics - first game back for AD/Rondo
Bucks - Lakers had injury issues.
Clippers - can't use game 1 as a barometer. Game 2 should have been a win. |
Na, they didn't have Paul George.. we should have won.. And what injury issues did the Lakers have against the Bucks - who's to say our guys will be more fresh in the Finals? |
Well AD missed the Indiana game right before the Bucks and Lebron missed the Denver game right after.
Neither healthy. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | trying to think of players worth both Kuz and Green. is Marcus Morris? Morris and an asset?
Morris and DSJ wouldn't be bad.. I think DSJ has potential to be solid; and day 1 provides a skillset or two we don't have...can he do it well, idk.. but I'd def give him the shot. |
This is the trade I suggested earlier.
DSJ is then sent to the Pistons for Rose.
Lakers get Morris and Rose for Green and Kuzma.
Detroit gets a young player with potential.
New York gets a personality (and young player). |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I forgot about re: Marcus Morris is his fallout with Klutch -- probably precludes us trading for him
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | trying to think of players worth both Kuz and Green. is Marcus Morris? Morris and an asset?
Morris and DSJ wouldn't be bad.. I think DSJ has potential to be solid; and day 1 provides a skillset or two we don't have...can he do it well, idk.. but I'd def give him the shot. |
This is the trade I suggested earlier.
DSJ is then sent to the Pistons for Rose.
Lakers get Morris and Rose for Green and Kuzma.
Detroit gets a young player with potential.
New York gets a personality (and young player). |
Just don't think it's enough for Detroit. DSJ's stock is really down right now, he's more expensive than Kuz, and they are both on the same contract timeline. I think Kuz has more value than DSJ does. Now, hey, if they want that, obviously, giddy up. But it's also a good point that Marcus Morris and Klutch may not see eye to eye right now. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | One thing I forgot about re: Marcus Morris is his fallout with Klutch -- probably precludes us trading for him |
There's a chance that could be overblown. He reneged on the Spurs deal and took the Knicks deal. From Rich Paul's perspective, it's bad business for him to have a client back out of a verbal deal, that really hurts his ability to make deals in the future, so he HAD to separate himself from Morris. And Morris did have this to say afterwards:
| Quote: | | “He never told me not to take the deal. For as long as I’ve known Rich — and that’s still someone I have love for and that’s still my guy — he has been great in terms of advice. |
So it's possible Morris just really didn't want to play in SA, wanted the higher 1st year money in New York with the possibility of earning a better payday next year being the #1 guy in the most overblown market and decided parting with Klutch was worthwhile collateral damage. Now does Rich Paul feel a certain way about it and not want him anywhere near the team? Maybe. But Lebron might not give a (bleep) and want the player that can help him win. |
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babyskyhook
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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Location: The Garden Island
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | It wasn’t as simple as having a lead and losing it.. the offense was stagnant from like mid 2nd on - it looked like the offense against Boston, where it was discombobulated , standnant, TOs.. it was really bad on that side of the ball. |
Yup. We scored 5 points in the Final 6 minutes. They scored 15. "blowing a lead" is what you do when you're relaxing against a team. We were definitely not relaxing. We couldn't score, while they pretty much got what they wanted.
EDIT: Further to KIROE's point, we put up 63 in the 1st half. 43 in the 2nd half. Stagnant offense. It's been a theme. |
43 points in a half is crazy in this era of basketball .. and it looked as gross as the point total suggests |
So if we beat them next game then what? Is it significant or is it just another regular season game? |
It would definitely be comforting. Moreso if it's a convincing win with an adjustment by Vogel that gives us a convincing advantage. But if we eek it out without doing much different, our record against Big Scoring Wing teams will still be of a major concern. And when you need to get 4 wins a piece against those kind of teams, one Clippers win isn't going to make me feel loads better no.
Honestly, it might be better for us in the long run to lose the next Clippers game. Beating them might make Rob feel better about not making any trades before the trade deadline. After February 2nd, we're down to prayers (certain buyout guys coming to the Lakers AND being in actual shape) |
Lose the battle, win the war. If that's what it takes to push them over the top on making a trade, I'm all for it. It sounds like they're kicking the tires already though, so I think they're going to make a move.
McMenimen was on the Lakers radio pregame while ago saying they're looking at all the guys we talk about in this thread, and talking about how they have to go all-in now because the window to win a title is here now. You know that is coming straight from Lebron's camp. Klutch is going to put enough pressure on to make something happen. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if there's an implied value in it, but one of the tools LA could use to bolster their roster is a willingness to take on salary next season. It a team will give you even an modest upgrade on some of your players with expiring contracts, that's well worth it. Not only do you improve, but it helps the roster next year when all you have to spend is the exception and minimum contracts.
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Beir32
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | It wasn’t as simple as having a lead and losing it.. the offense was stagnant from like mid 2nd on - it looked like the offense against Boston, where it was discombobulated , standnant, TOs.. it was really bad on that side of the ball. |
Yup. We scored 5 points in the Final 6 minutes. They scored 15. "blowing a lead" is what you do when you're relaxing against a team. We were definitely not relaxing. We couldn't score, while they pretty much got what they wanted.
EDIT: Further to KIROE's point, we put up 63 in the 1st half. 43 in the 2nd half. Stagnant offense. It's been a theme. |
Ok? Do you think we can’t beat them? I’m not even sure what we’re talking about here. |
We’re just talking about our flaws in relation to our record and how great we are.. just cuz we’re great doesn’t mean we’re not flawed and should be arrogant about our playoff outlook |
That’s fair. We have flaws. Everyone does this season. I’m just gonna take a wait and see approach to the Clips though since it’s not even the deadline yet and we probably have 8 more games against them this season. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | trying to think of players worth both Kuz and Green. is Marcus Morris? Morris and an asset?
Morris and DSJ wouldn't be bad.. I think DSJ has potential to be solid; and day 1 provides a skillset or two we don't have...can he do it well, idk.. but I'd def give him the shot. |
This is the trade I suggested earlier.
DSJ is then sent to the Pistons for Rose.
Lakers get Morris and Rose for Green and Kuzma.
Detroit gets a young player with potential.
New York gets a personality (and young player). |
Just don't think it's enough for Detroit. DSJ's stock is really down right now, he's more expensive than Kuz, and they are both on the same contract timeline. I think Kuz has more value than DSJ does. Now, hey, if they want that, obviously, giddy up. But it's also a good point that Marcus Morris and Klutch may not see eye to eye right now. |
What do you think they can realistically get for Rose? I can't see anyone trading a first.
If you're a rebuilding team, you take DSJ > Kuzma. He just turned 22 and has way more upside. Looking at the rest their roster, he also a better fit with your other young cornerstones.
The real question is why would the Knicks trade DSJ to get Kuzma. My argument for that is he is a better fit with their current roster and is more ready to play now. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | It wasn’t as simple as having a lead and losing it.. the offense was stagnant from like mid 2nd on - it looked like the offense against Boston, where it was discombobulated , standnant, TOs.. it was really bad on that side of the ball. |
Yup. We scored 5 points in the Final 6 minutes. They scored 15. "blowing a lead" is what you do when you're relaxing against a team. We were definitely not relaxing. We couldn't score, while they pretty much got what they wanted.
EDIT: Further to KIROE's point, we put up 63 in the 1st half. 43 in the 2nd half. Stagnant offense. It's been a theme. |
Ok? Do you think we can’t beat them? I’m not even sure what we’re talking about here. |
We’re just talking about our flaws in relation to our record and how great we are.. just cuz we’re great doesn’t mean we’re not flawed and should be arrogant about our playoff outlook |
That’s fair. We have flaws. Everyone does this season. I’m just gonna take a wait and see approach to the Clips though since it’s not even the deadline yet and we probably have 8 more games against them this season. |
Lol does that 8 include playoffs? We only got 2 postseason games left against them... |
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drae
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Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Should point out our scoring woes coincide with our 3 point percentage falling below league average again. Averaging 32% in our past 5 games. Combine that with AD returning and there being less space inside the pain and our outside shooting becomes that much more important.
With Lebron in and AD out there was a LOT of space for Lebron and the team to work. With Dwight and AD on the floor the paint becomes clogged, driving becomes harder, our outside shooting becomes more important. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Danny green/mcgee-he agrees for thj/j Jackson |
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Beir32
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Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | It wasn’t as simple as having a lead and losing it.. the offense was stagnant from like mid 2nd on - it looked like the offense against Boston, where it was discombobulated , standnant, TOs.. it was really bad on that side of the ball. |
Yup. We scored 5 points in the Final 6 minutes. They scored 15. "blowing a lead" is what you do when you're relaxing against a team. We were definitely not relaxing. We couldn't score, while they pretty much got what they wanted.
EDIT: Further to KIROE's point, we put up 63 in the 1st half. 43 in the 2nd half. Stagnant offense. It's been a theme. |
Ok? Do you think we can’t beat them? I’m not even sure what we’re talking about here. |
We’re just talking about our flaws in relation to our record and how great we are.. just cuz we’re great doesn’t mean we’re not flawed and should be arrogant about our playoff outlook |
That’s fair. We have flaws. Everyone does this season. I’m just gonna take a wait and see approach to the Clips though since it’s not even the deadline yet and we probably have 8 more games against them this season. |
Lol does that 8 include playoffs? We only got 2 postseason games left against them... |
Yessir. I think it’s a safe bet we’re playing them in the playoffs which is the only games that matter. 
Also I assume you mean regular season games. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | trying to think of players worth both Kuz and Green. is Marcus Morris? Morris and an asset?
Morris and DSJ wouldn't be bad.. I think DSJ has potential to be solid; and day 1 provides a skillset or two we don't have...can he do it well, idk.. but I'd def give him the shot. |
This is the trade I suggested earlier.
DSJ is then sent to the Pistons for Rose.
Lakers get Morris and Rose for Green and Kuzma.
Detroit gets a young player with potential.
New York gets a personality (and young player). |
Just don't think it's enough for Detroit. DSJ's stock is really down right now, he's more expensive than Kuz, and they are both on the same contract timeline. I think Kuz has more value than DSJ does. Now, hey, if they want that, obviously, giddy up. But it's also a good point that Marcus Morris and Klutch may not see eye to eye right now. |
What do you think they can realistically get for Rose? I can't see anyone trading a first.
If you're a rebuilding team, you take DSJ > Kuzma. He just turned 22 and has way more upside. Looking at the rest their roster, he also a better fit with your other young cornerstones.
The real question is why would the Knicks trade DSJ to get Kuzma. My argument for that is he is a better fit with their current roster and is more ready to play now. |
I agree that the Knicks would do that. I'm just not sure if the Pistons would. You make a compelling case as to why DSJ might be worth more than Kuz for them, but he's just played so crappy that I'm not sure that DSJ is worth enough for giving up Rose. I believe Rose's value, as I said a few pages ago, is commensurate with a non-lottery pick first round pick. I think Kuz falls in with that. I'm not sure that DSJ does. Perhaps if we added THT for the Pistons here. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Danny green/mcgee-he agrees for thj/j Jackson |
If the Mavs still value Green then I can see that as a possibility. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I would feel a lot better letting Green go if we could land 1 of LaVine/Gordon/Beal |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I would feel a lot better letting Green go if we could land 1 of LaVine/Gordon/Beal |
Beal can’t be traded until after this season. That might be our best shot. We can trade all our opt ins (Javale, Rondo, KCP) at that point too I believe. Not 💯 tho. |
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drae
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| We're going to see how extended minutes with AD at the 5 can unlock this offense. It'll be interesting to see before the trade deadline. |
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