OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:57 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
I really like Porter, but the Nuggs have him tired up for the next 4 years...


MAGA Porter Jr! 😝
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.



For me, it's not a case of wanting him gone, or wanting him to stay. It's about realistically gauging his productivity and value to the team right now, rather than just predicting/hoping he's going to have some huge jump.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
What about Cousins? How’s his recovery going?


I hope the Lakers sign him and let McGee walk. I could see the Clippers making a run at Cousins.

Is McGee opting out?


I think he might.

He probably gives up money by opting out, however, he gets to choose his team instead of the Lakers trading him, which I think they will.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.



For me, it's not a case of wanting him gone, or wanting him to stay. It's about realistically gauging his productivity and value to the team right now, rather than just predicting/hoping he's going to have some huge jump.


he is playing behind 2 top 5 players in the league that play his position.

I am sure he would average close to Brandon Ingram with horrible defense on the pelicans
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
What about Cousins? How’s his recovery going?


I hope the Lakers sign him and let McGee walk. I could see the Clippers making a run at Cousins.

Is McGee opting out?


I think he might.

He probably gives up money by opting out, however, he gets to choose his team instead of the Lakers trading him, which I think they will.


I would be shocked if he opts out. He's a journeyman who has played on six teams and won two rings. Even if the Lakers do trade him (and I'm not sure that's likely), I don't see him risking the loss of millions of dollars just to pick his team for next year.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BlueNGold wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.


Personally, I like Kuz. My issue is twofold: consistency and potential.

He is extremely inconsistent and has been his whole career and is a pure scorer that doesn't seem to be exceeding what we have already seen. If we can get better value using him as a trade chip, I'm taking it.


It's going to look inconsistent when his role changed 2x since his rookie year, plus he changed his form... ?


You made my point for with "consistency". If you're playing with one of the best distributors of the ball to ever play the game, your looks are likely to be good ones. He needs to get better at hitting those shots consistently, whatever his form is.

But again, I don't hate Kuz or think he is worthless. If he blows his consistency up and shows more upside, I'd LOVE to keep him. I just think his value lies more in the market, given our lack of assets.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
CRoost wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But we're still looking for a 3rd option. Just saying PG13 would have been perfect.

I think that's our biggest area of need as LBJ turns 36 soon. He can't be the dominant offensive engine forever. Who can be that for the MLE/trade?


Kuz will be that 3rd option. If we win it all, we a can afford to to give him volume in the regular season so he can develop and get it going.


I'm not really sure about that. I think he can be a key contributor but I'm looking for someone who can ease LBJ's playmaking burden.


Exactly - Kuzma isn't able to create or put pressure on the defense. You can't give him the ball and ask him to get you a basket or create for someone else.

I hate to say this, but Clarkson fits that role a bit better. Schroder would be a great 3rd option.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.



For me, it's not a case of wanting him gone, or wanting him to stay. It's about realistically gauging his productivity and value to the team right now, rather than just predicting/hoping he's going to have some huge jump.


He's what, an average NBA player right now? So he's worth MLE money?

I just think people that talk about trading for Dinwiddie, haven't seen how he plays. Remember all that Lou Williams stuff when he was a Laker? Exactly like that. Doesn't involve the team. Numbers look good. Team wasn't winning.

I just think a lot of these trade rumors/ideas are "change for a sake of change" without fixing what actually gets lost when certain players get traded.

DG isn't even playing well but he's the only big guard that can play elite tier defense, even in a bad game. Where else do we find that?

Where is this wing that is willing to play 2-way and possibly fits on an LBJ/AD team without taking away touches?

It's a lot more difficult to find, and I'm not as optimistic about a trade since LBJ and AD essentially built this team. Sure,I bet they're open to the right trade, but if you're trading the 2 non-elite wings in Kuzma and Green, better be getting at least 1 back. Otherwise, playing against elite wing teams down the line (LAC isn't changing any time soon), gets that much harder.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:18 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CRoost wrote:

I have more faith on Kuz than us able to bring a 3rd star on a trade until we have the cap space. Kuz need to tighten his handle and work on his footwork. Defensively, he’s putting it together. Kuz is a late bloomer. We have seen guys like Jimmy Bucket developing later. He has the mentality , just need the work ethic to put it together .


Guys like Jimmy Butler, who are stagnant in their first three years and take a big leap in their fourth year, are pretty rare, especially when they come into the league at age 22.

I would be delighted to see Kuzma be one of those rare guys, but I don't see how you can predict whether someone will be a late bloomer.

My suspicion is that Kuzma's trade value isn't as high as a lot of Lakers fans think. So far, his performance in the playoffs isn't attracting much attention or raising his value, as far as I can make out.


Kuz was a redshirted in college so he is definitely a late bloomer. He usually put up numbers whenever AD or Lebron out. So he definitely can be that 3rd option. But he need volume to get himself into rhythm. This is his first playoff ever and playing behind the best 2 players of the game who happen to play the same position.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject:

BlueNGold wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BlueNGold wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.


Personally, I like Kuz. My issue is twofold: consistency and potential.

He is extremely inconsistent and has been his whole career and is a pure scorer that doesn't seem to be exceeding what we have already seen. If we can get better value using him as a trade chip, I'm taking it.


It's going to look inconsistent when his role changed 2x since his rookie year, plus he changed his form... ?


You made my point for with "consistency". If you're playing with one of the best distributors of the ball to ever play the game, your looks are likely to be good ones. He needs to get better at hitting those shots consistently, whatever his form is.

But again, I don't hate Kuz or think he is worthless. If he blows his consistency up and shows more upside, I'd LOVE to keep him. I just think his value lies more in the market, given our lack of assets.


Shooting percentages don't change that dramatically with a completely changed form for about 2-4 years.

You basically saw two versions with what happened pre-March vs Bubble.

I find A LOT of irony in "This guy can get a bucket at least" kind of trade, and then he's unplayable to close games.

This is literally why the Clippers lost. Lou Williams was a bucket getter, and unplayable to close games and even with 2 elite defensive wings, LAC couldn't make up for it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject:

If Kuzma could get his 3PT % up to 35%+ and keeps everything else the same. That's a success moving forward.

I took it easy on Danny Green all season long when others roasted him. But his shooting splits this playoffs are indefensible. I'm surprised any time he shoots it and it goes in.

As far as role players go, I've been happier with what Morris has given us though this postseason.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But we're still looking for a 3rd option. Just saying PG13 would have been perfect.

I think that's our biggest area of need as LBJ turns 36 soon. He can't be the dominant offensive engine forever. Who can be that for the MLE/trade?


We've pushed all our chips into the center of the table for 2-3 championships with Bron. We knew what we signed up for. Bron leaves every team he's been on decimated. Expecting sustained success past 2022 isn't realistic IMO.


And I'd gladly take 2-3 championships, heck even 1. It would have been worth it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.



For me, it's not a case of wanting him gone, or wanting him to stay. It's about realistically gauging his productivity and value to the team right now, rather than just predicting/hoping he's going to have some huge jump.


He's what, an average NBA player right now? So he's worth MLE money?

I just think people that talk about trading for Dinwiddie, haven't seen how he plays. Remember all that Lou Williams stuff when he was a Laker? Exactly like that. Doesn't involve the team. Numbers look good. Team wasn't winning.

I just think a lot of these trade rumors/ideas are "change for a sake of change" without fixing what actually gets lost when certain players get traded.

DG isn't even playing well but he's the only big guard that can play elite tier defense, even in a bad game. Where else do we find that?

Where is this wing that is willing to play 2-way and possibly fits on an LBJ/AD team without taking away touches?

It's a lot more difficult to find, and I'm not as optimistic about a trade since LBJ and AD essentially built this team. Sure,I bet they're open to the right trade, but if you're trading the 2 non-elite wings in Kuzma and Green, better be getting at least 1 back. Otherwise, playing against elite wing teams down the line (LAC isn't changing any time soon), gets that much harder.


Guys like Lou and Dinwiddle will only look good in the regular season when teams are not prepared. When the calls are getting tighter and the defense getting better with all the adjustments, their shortcomings and their inabilities in defense will be transparent and get exploited. Even if Kuz can’t develop as that 3rd option, his improving defense and his switchable rotating D is more valuable in the playoff in our team.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
If Kuzma could get his 3PT % up to 35%+ and keeps everything else the same. That's a success moving forward.

I took it easy on Danny Green all season long when others roasted him. But his shooting splits this playoffs are indefensible. I'm surprised any time he shoots it and it goes in.

As far as role players go, I've been happier with what Morris has given us though this postseason.


I would like to start Kuzma over Green next year. give him 32/34 per night and see what he can do.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BlueNGold wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BlueNGold wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.


Personally, I like Kuz. My issue is twofold: consistency and potential.

He is extremely inconsistent and has been his whole career and is a pure scorer that doesn't seem to be exceeding what we have already seen. If we can get better value using him as a trade chip, I'm taking it.


It's going to look inconsistent when his role changed 2x since his rookie year, plus he changed his form... ?


You made my point for with "consistency". If you're playing with one of the best distributors of the ball to ever play the game, your looks are likely to be good ones. He needs to get better at hitting those shots consistently, whatever his form is.

But again, I don't hate Kuz or think he is worthless. If he blows his consistency up and shows more upside, I'd LOVE to keep him. I just think his value lies more in the market, given our lack of assets.


Shooting percentages don't change that dramatically with a completely changed form for about 2-4 years.

You basically saw two versions with what happened pre-March vs Bubble.

I find A LOT of irony in "This guy can get a bucket at least" kind of trade, and then he's unplayable to close games.

This is literally why the Clippers lost. Lou Williams was a bucket getter, and unplayable to close games and even with 2 elite defensive wings, LAC couldn't make up for it.


Taking that in mind, 2-4 years puts us in a position where we have to decide on his future before we truly know how that changed form will pan out. To me, that is concerning.

Kuzma has certainly picked up his defense and thrilled me with his game winner against Denver earlier in the bubble, so he isn't totally unplayable to close games. But I look at Joe Harris and Buddy Hield and think that they have the shooting stroke that would address a weakness of ours...though it has not shown up nearly as much lately.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Kuzma is a +1.3 for the playoffs. But for his first playoffs, people want him gone?

Yeesh.



For me, it's not a case of wanting him gone, or wanting him to stay. It's about realistically gauging his productivity and value to the team right now, rather than just predicting/hoping he's going to have some huge jump.


He's what, an average NBA player right now? So he's worth MLE money?

I just think people that talk about trading for Dinwiddie, haven't seen how he plays. Remember all that Lou Williams stuff when he was a Laker? Exactly like that. Doesn't involve the team. Numbers look good. Team wasn't winning.

I just think a lot of these trade rumors/ideas are "change for a sake of change" without fixing what actually gets lost when certain players get traded.

DG isn't even playing well but he's the only big guard that can play elite tier defense, even in a bad game. Where else do we find that?

Where is this wing that is willing to play 2-way and possibly fits on an LBJ/AD team without taking away touches?

It's a lot more difficult to find, and I'm not as optimistic about a trade since LBJ and AD essentially built this team. Sure,I bet they're open to the right trade, but if you're trading the 2 non-elite wings in Kuzma and Green, better be getting at least 1 back. Otherwise, playing against elite wing teams down the line (LAC isn't changing any time soon), gets that much harder.


Guys like Lou and Dinwiddle will only look good in the regular season when teams are not prepared. When the calls are getting tighter and the defense getting better with all the adjustments, their shortcomings and their inabilities in defense will be transparent and get exploited. Even if Kuz can’t develop as that 3rd option, his improving defense and his switchable rotating D is more valuable in the playoff in our team.


Exactly. It's why guys like pre-injury Roberson or even Lu Dort were playable in closing minutes. When they're on the floor, opponent PPP drops compared to the alternative, regardless of scoring ability.

Only 1 guy has to score the ball, but all 5 gotta play defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

Quote:


Taking that in mind, 2-4 years puts us in a position where we have to decide on his future before we truly know how that changed form will pan out. To me, that is concerning.


The goal is FA 2021, so I don't see what's concerning?
Quote:


Kuzma has certainly picked up his defense and thrilled me with his game winner against Denver earlier in the bubble, so he isn't totally unplayable to close games. But I look at Joe Harris and Buddy Hield and think that they have the shooting stroke that would address a weakness of ours...though it has not shown up nearly as much lately.


Once again, more guys that can shoot, and then would be absolutely exploited defensively in the playoffs.

Defense (especially at wing) is actually more of a priority than scoring.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
kikanga wrote:
If Kuzma could get his 3PT % up to 35%+ and keeps everything else the same. That's a success moving forward.

I took it easy on Danny Green all season long when others roasted him. But his shooting splits this playoffs are indefensible. I'm surprised any time he shoots it and it goes in.

As far as role players go, I've been happier with what Morris has given us though this postseason.


I would like to start Kuzma over Green next year. give him 32/34 per night and see what he can do.


Hmm. It's an interesting idea. In that houston series I do remember some minutes when he, Bron, Morris, and Brow played together. And I liked how it looked.
My only hesitancy is floor spacing. For that reason I could see LBJ and Brow pushing to start KCP and/or Green over him.
Even if he doesn't start, playing him 30+ minutes is a good idea.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject:

You guys think there is interest to bring back Waiters? We all know J.R. is definitely not coming back but there might be interest in bringing back Dion.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject:

given salary cap uncertainty, lets assume rondo, mcgee, bradley and kcp will choose to play out their contract. and assume davis would play out his option or resign.

that gives us:
lbj, davis, kuz, green, cook, caruso, tht, rondo, mcgee, bradley and kcp
that is 11

remaining 4 would come from:
1st round pick if we pick
whoever we sign back out of waiters, morris, dudley and howard

if we keep the pick, then that is space for 3 with the most likely being howard and morris.

i would prefer we keep morris, howard, first round pick (bpa) and then sign a better shooter.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject:

So who’s the keepers and who should be traded/upgraded Mike?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But we're still looking for a 3rd option. Just saying PG13 would have been perfect.

I think that's our biggest area of need as LBJ turns 36 soon. He can't be the dominant offensive engine forever. Who can be that for the MLE/trade?


We've pushed all our chips into the center of the table for 2-3 championships with Bron. We knew what we signed up for. Bron leaves every team he's been on decimated. Expecting sustained success past 2022 isn't realistic IMO.


I'd say Lebron has left every team he's been on with a banner.

They are only "decimated" to the extent that any successful team tends to decline significantly when a superstar leaves -- just ask the Bucks when Kareem left, or the Magic when Shaq left, or us when Shaq left.

In the modern NBA, I am not sure "sustained success" is a reasonable goal anymore. Superstars tend to come and go as they pleased now, and the CBA gives them greater flexibility to do so. You need to strike when the iron is hot.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
kikanga wrote:
If Kuzma could get his 3PT % up to 35%+ and keeps everything else the same. That's a success moving forward.

I took it easy on Danny Green all season long when others roasted him. But his shooting splits this playoffs are indefensible. I'm surprised any time he shoots it and it goes in.

As far as role players go, I've been happier with what Morris has given us though this postseason.


I would like to start Kuzma over Green next year. give him 32/34 per night and see what he can do.


Hmm. It's an interesting idea. In that houston series I do remember some minutes when he, Bron, Morris, and Brow played together. And I liked how it looked.
My only hesitancy is floor spacing. For that reason I could see LBJ and Brow pushing to start KCP and/or Green over him.
Even if he doesn't start, playing him 30+ minutes is a good idea.


Dwight
AD
Kuzma
KCP
Bron

will be my starting lineup.

Green and pick for a ball handler would be a great idea
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But we're still looking for a 3rd option. Just saying PG13 would have been perfect.

I think that's our biggest area of need as LBJ turns 36 soon. He can't be the dominant offensive engine forever. Who can be that for the MLE/trade?


We've pushed all our chips into the center of the table for 2-3 championships with Bron. We knew what we signed up for. Bron leaves every team he's been on decimated. Expecting sustained success past 2022 isn't realistic IMO.


Davis is going to be the face of this franchise post LeBron so I don't think we will be decimated.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject:

I think Dan Gilbert happily takes that championship ring, even though the Cavs are still rebuilding after LBJ left.

Miami probably appreciates the 2 rings they got. When he left, Bosh/Wade were still around. They missed 3 out of 6 playoffs the subsequent years, but have been relatively competitive.

We will likely still have AD and other pieces added. When LBJ is gone you'll have a 40m+ salary cap slot available too.

And we hopefully have 2-3 rings as well.
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