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deal
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | Now IDEALLY, I would love it if a deal was sending just Lance, Beasley, Zu and a filler like Caruso to acquire Ariza. We would get rid of a lot of fat for a big impactful player while also leaving us room to bring up other more useful players like Travis Wear again, etc. |
You should expect then to get 4 players in return |
Yeah. For h/c purposes it would a 4 for 4 exchange.
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| AirTupac wrote: | | Lol bro you really think Ariza is even trying in Pheonix right now? Chandler looked like a corpse a month ago. |
He wasn't played. And saying Ariza "isn't trying" is actually an insult to him. Ariza has never "not tried" in his career. He may just be past his prime.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't Phoenix prefer Rondo (assuming they give a (bleep) about winning)? |
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LKA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Lol bro you really think Ariza is even trying in Pheonix right now? Chandler looked like a corpse a month ago. |
He wasn't played. And saying Ariza "isn't trying" is actually an insult to him. Ariza has never "not tried" in his career. He may just be past his prime. |
Hes definitely past his prime as is Chandler. Does that mean he cant come in and make an impact as well? |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Lol bro you really think Ariza is even trying in Pheonix right now? Chandler looked like a corpse a month ago. |
He wasn't played. And saying Ariza "isn't trying" is actually an insult to him. Ariza has never "not tried" in his career. He may just be past his prime. |
Hes definitely past his prime as is Chandler. Does that mean he cant come in and make an impact as well? |
That depends, do you think he'd make more of an impact than KCP does? Or is it "he was a Laker once" bias?
Ariza is 33 and is shooting 36% from the field and 34% from three and his defense has fallen off from last year and in general.
Is he realistically going to contribute more to the team than KCP currently does?
if we moved KCP it should be, because we're giving more minutes to the developing Svi. Not to give them to Ariza whom has performed worse this year than KCP has.
People go "but Chandler was barely himself in Phoenix, look at him now."
no.. he looks the same, he's just getting more minutes. Last year with the Suns in 25 MPG he put up 6/9. He's coming off the bench now for us in 21 MPG putting up 3/10
Chandler didn't have a resurgence here with us, he just got his minutes increased from 12 to 21 and even in those 12 MPG he was playing with Phoenix this season he put up 3/7.
He looks the same. Just when he put on a Lakers jersey and got 9 more MPG people want to see resurgence, when in reality he'd be doing the same right now if PHX decided he should play 21 MPG instead of developing their youngsters.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | Now IDEALLY, I would love it if a deal was sending just Lance, Beasley, Zu and a filler like Caruso to acquire Ariza. We would get rid of a lot of fat for a big impactful player while also leaving us room to bring up other more useful players like Travis Wear again, etc. |
You should expect then to get 4 players in return |
Yeah. For h/c purposes it would a 4 for 4 exchange. |
I think that they only have 14 on the roster so it could be 4 for 3.
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| No idea why Phoenix is so eager to trade ariza |
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anth2000
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I would think the Lakers would get Ariza AND another player. I think Ariza is certainly a good player and showed it in Houston. Let's not, like with Chandler, focus on this season. Its a different team and look how Chandler looks.
Ariza is the better player on the right team. I mean, come on, I know some of you won't admit it but Houston dropped off a lot after he left. He was a glue guy too. Its not just about points, shooting percentages. Its the intangibles. I believe Ariza brings more than just the stat line..... |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | No idea why Phoenix is so eager to trade ariza |
They want a point guard and picks. Makes sense for them. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | I would think the Lakers would get Ariza AND another player. I think Ariza is certainly a good player and showed it in Houston. Let's not, like with Chandler, focus on this season. Its a different team and look how Chandler looks.
Ariza is the better player on the right team. I mean, come on, I know some of you won't admit it but Houston dropped off a lot after he left. He was a glue guy too. Its not just about points, shooting percentages. Its the intangibles. I believe Ariza brings more than just the stat line..... |
Yes, Houston dropped off and Phoenix didn’t improve defensively.
We’re over attributing Houstons struggles to Ariza. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| This sounds like a hare-brained idea. We would probably need to kick in a pick or two to make it happen. And what would we have accomplished? |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | No idea why Phoenix is so eager to trade ariza |
They've watched him play and are trying to get what they can based on his name value as opposed to his production.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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They better not trade Svi or Bonga to do this.
KCP, I'd understand because we can't afford him next year anyway. |
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storm1324
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Why would Indiana have any interest in KCP?
They already have 5 guards Oladipo, Evans, Collison, Joseph and Holiday seeing playing time. Plus 2 wings Bogdanovic and McDermott. Aside from Holiday the other 6 are shooting better from 3 than KCP. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | This sounds like a hare-brained idea. We would probably need to kick in a pick or two to make it happen. And what would we have accomplished? |
Toss in Lance, perhaps. Clears a roster spot to sign some shooter out of Bulgaria. That's all I got. |
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LakersForever123
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just speculating:
Lakers: ariza and Justin patton
Phoenix: markelle Fultz
Sixers: kcp
-and fillers and/or 2nd round picks to make it work |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| storm1324 wrote: | Why would Indiana have any interest in KCP?
They already have 5 guards Oladipo, Evans, Collison, Joseph and Holiday seeing playing time. Plus 2 wings Bogdanovic and McDermott. Aside from Holiday the other 6 are shooting better from 3 than KCP. |
Where did you hear Indy was involved? Hadnt heard that one yet. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersForever123 wrote: | Just speculating:
Lakers: ariza and Justin patton
Phoenix: markelle Fultz
Sixers: kcp
-and fillers and/or 2nd round picks to make it work |
I don't think Fultz has any positive value. Everyone knows the Sixers need to dump him to go all in on free agency next summer. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Lol bro you really think Ariza is even trying in Pheonix right now? Chandler looked like a corpse a month ago. |
He wasn't played. And saying Ariza "isn't trying" is actually an insult to him. Ariza has never "not tried" in his career. He may just be past his prime. |
Hes definitely past his prime as is Chandler. Does that mean he cant come in and make an impact as well? |
That depends, do you think he'd make more of an impact than KCP does? Or is it "he was a Laker once" bias?
Ariza is 33 and is shooting 36% from the field and 34% from three and his defense has fallen off from last year and in general.
Is he realistically going to contribute more to the team than KCP currently does?
if we moved KCP it should be, because we're giving more minutes to the developing Svi. Not to give them to Ariza whom has performed worse this year than KCP has.
People go "but Chandler was barely himself in Phoenix, look at him now."
no.. he looks the same, he's just getting more minutes. Last year with the Suns in 25 MPG he put up 6/9. He's coming off the bench now for us in 21 MPG putting up 3/10
Chandler didn't have a resurgence here with us, he just got his minutes increased from 12 to 21 and even in those 12 MPG he was playing with Phoenix this season he put up 3/7.
He looks the same. Just when he put on a Lakers jersey and got 9 more MPG people want to see resurgence, when in reality he'd be doing the same right now if PHX decided he should play 21 MPG instead of developing their youngsters. |
Yes. I’d argue KCP hasnt had much of an impact for us this season other than a few games. When you consider that Hart is a better shooter than KCP and consistently contributes more to this team, this makes KCP expendable if you’re able to replace him with Ariza who bridges the defensive gap between KCP and Hart. If we had Ariza last game vs the Spurs does DeRozan go off for 36? This is where he can make an impact on the team.
Similar to Chandler shoring up our interior defense, Ariza can have the same impact on the perimeter. Its not so much about resurgence but rather better fit. Theres no denying Chandler looks excited to be playing basketball again now that hes on a much better team that was in need of exactly what he does .. Put yourself in Ariza’s position, you go from the western conference finals to playing for the Suns, would you be thrilled about that? At this point in the latter part of guys’ careers they want to play to win. |
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joeblow
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'll take a quick 'n dirty stab at a 3-way trade...
Lakers get:
Ariza (SF, $15m, 1-year)
Suns get:
Dennis Smith Jr. (PG, $3.8m, 3-years)
Dwight Powell (PF, $9.6m, 2-years)
<Lakers' 2nd round pick>
Mavericks get:
Kentavious CP (SG, $12m, 1-year)
Ivica Zubac (C, $1.5m, 1-year)
<Suns' 2nd round pick>
~~~~~
Salaries are pretty close to being the same for all three teams (the Lakers take on $1.5m more).
*** The Lakers make the deal solely to get Ariza, who is a much more valuable defender vs. wings than KCP while still being a semi-reliable asset at the three point line on offense.
*** The Suns make the deal to get a scoring guard in Dennis Smith that fills in their vacant PG slot in a way similar to what Eric Bledsoe does for the Bucks (obviously not as good, though). This relieves Devin Booker from handling the ball so much, especially if they can get Smith to pass the ball more than he likes to do.
BTW, Smith is also incredibly young like the rest of their core, and on a rookie contract for three more years. Also, adding a solid, young athletic PF with defensive upside in Powell is icing on the cake, and they get the Lakers second rounder to replace the one they are sending out.
*** The Mavs make the deal in order to move out Dennis Smith Jr., who is now in the way of Doncic's ability to be ball dominant since the international dynamo was drafted this year. Replacing him is a solid SG in KCP, who fits next to Doncic like a glove in the back court.
KCP will get plenty of court time as a result, since his main competition in the slot is the aging Wesley Matthews (who is still pretty solid). Because losing Powell is significant, the Mavs are compensated a bit more by getting the Suns highly decent 2nd round pick, which is looking to fall no worse than #31-#34 next summer.
Last edited by joeblow on Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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anth2000
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | I would think the Lakers would get Ariza AND another player. I think Ariza is certainly a good player and showed it in Houston. Let's not, like with Chandler, focus on this season. Its a different team and look how Chandler looks.
Ariza is the better player on the right team. I mean, come on, I know some of you won't admit it but Houston dropped off a lot after he left. He was a glue guy too. Its not just about points, shooting percentages. Its the intangibles. I believe Ariza brings more than just the stat line..... |
Yes, Houston dropped off and Phoenix didn’t improve defensively.
We’re over attributing Houstons struggles to Ariza. |
I take it you don't like the move so much? I mean, I am not a KCP guy. I think he's often brainless on the floor though he has had some decent games.
I am going to trust the FO going forward until they completely fail us. I think it would be a good thing. |
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FreakofNature
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | leking006 wrote: | Is it possible that Lakers can get AD and Ariza if the third team is the Pelicans?
AD, Ariza to Lakers
Ball to Suns
BI, KCP, 1st round pick and another player from Suns to Pelicans |
Man the Suns make out like bandits in this trade. They unload a bad contract and in return they get Lonzo Ball - (Lonzo Ball, a player some on here wouldn't even trade for De'Aaron Fox at this point). |
The ones that make out as bandits would be the lakers IMO. Ball and BI in essence for AD & Ariza, being the hub of the trade. Just don't see the Pelicans doing it, it will require another real good piece besides Ariza from the Suns, and looking at them they do not have many.
Lakers would be:
Rondo/Stephenson
Ariza/Hart
Javale/Chandler
AD/Kuz
Bron/Kuz
Last edited by FreakofNature on Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gotta question the timing of this leak. Lakers will play at least two games before they can even trade for him and it's obvious KCP would be involved. So he has to play the next two games knowing the team is trying to unload him. So you gotta think it's Phoenix leaking this to drum up better offers. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry if this has been asked but do we have to wait until 12/15 for a deal to take place? They both signed as FA’s. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Lol bro you really think Ariza is even trying in Pheonix right now? Chandler looked like a corpse a month ago. |
He wasn't played. And saying Ariza "isn't trying" is actually an insult to him. Ariza has never "not tried" in his career. He may just be past his prime. |
Hes definitely past his prime as is Chandler. Does that mean he cant come in and make an impact as well? |
That depends, do you think he'd make more of an impact than KCP does? Or is it "he was a Laker once" bias?
Ariza is 33 and is shooting 36% from the field and 34% from three and his defense has fallen off from last year and in general.
Is he realistically going to contribute more to the team than KCP currently does?
if we moved KCP it should be, because we're giving more minutes to the developing Svi. Not to give them to Ariza whom has performed worse this year than KCP has.
People go "but Chandler was barely himself in Phoenix, look at him now."
no.. he looks the same, he's just getting more minutes. Last year with the Suns in 25 MPG he put up 6/9. He's coming off the bench now for us in 21 MPG putting up 3/10
Chandler didn't have a resurgence here with us, he just got his minutes increased from 12 to 21 and even in those 12 MPG he was playing with Phoenix this season he put up 3/7.
He looks the same. Just when he put on a Lakers jersey and got 9 more MPG people want to see resurgence, when in reality he'd be doing the same right now if PHX decided he should play 21 MPG instead of developing their youngsters. |
Yes. I’d argue KCP hasnt had much of an impact for us this season other than a few games. When you consider that Hart is a better shooter than KCP and consistently contributes more to this team, this makes KCP expendable if you’re able to replace him with Ariza who bridges the defensive gap between KCP and Hart. If we had Ariza last game vs the Spurs does DeRozan go off for 36? This is where he can make an impact on the team.
Similar to Chandler shoring up our interior defense, Ariza can have the same impact on the perimeter. Its not so much about resurgence but rather better fit. Theres no denying Chandler looks excited to be playing basketball again now that hes on a much better team that was in need of exactly what he does .. Put yourself in Ariza’s position, you go from the western conference finals to playing for the Suns, would you be thrilled about that? At this point in the latter part of guys’ careers they want to play to win. |
Have you watched Ariza's defense this year?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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