Amazon pulls HQ2 out of NYC
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
AOC has some interesting plans for spending that $3B laying around.


It was clear she did not know anything about that incentive package. Actually it is clear a lot of people that appeared to have strong opinions on the deal did not bother to even read the cliff notes of the deal.


Oh I have to believe she THOUGHT she knew. How can she even have an opinion about whether the deal was good or not for her constituents without actually processing the details of it?

I will say, even though I disagree with her on most things, I do respect the fact that she doesn't necessarily pander to her constituents because I generally agree with the premise that politicians need to cater to the needs of their constituents, and not their wants.


I think we disagree there....that sounds like the politicians know what is best for the people, while the people themselves do not know what is in their best interest.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
AOC has some interesting plans for spending that $3B laying around.


It was clear she did not know anything about that incentive package. Actually it is clear a lot of people that appeared to have strong opinions on the deal did not bother to even read the cliff notes of the deal.


Oh I have to believe she THOUGHT she knew. How can she even have an opinion about whether the deal was good or not for her constituents without actually processing the details of it?

I will say, even though I disagree with her on most things, I do respect the fact that she doesn't necessarily pander to her constituents because I generally agree with the premise that politicians need to cater to the needs of their constituents, and not their wants.


I think we disagree there....that sounds like the politicians know what is best for the people, while the people themselves do not know what is in their best interest.


That’s actually often the case, as is neither knowing. To paraphrase George Carlin, the average person is pretty stupid, and half the people are dumber than that.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
A good discussion of this situation:

https://twitter.com/AnandWrites/status/1096457529138270214


This was excellent.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
AOC has some interesting plans for spending that $3B laying around.


It was clear she did not know anything about that incentive package. Actually it is clear a lot of people that appeared to have strong opinions on the deal did not bother to even read the cliff notes of the deal.


Oh I have to believe she THOUGHT she knew. How can she even have an opinion about whether the deal was good or not for her constituents without actually processing the details of it?

I will say, even though I disagree with her on most things, I do respect the fact that she doesn't necessarily pander to her constituents because I generally agree with the premise that politicians need to cater to the needs of their constituents, and not their wants.


I think we disagree there....that sounds like the politicians know what is best for the people, while the people themselves do not know what is in their best interest.


That’s actually often the case, as is neither knowing. To paraphrase George Carlin, the average person is pretty stupid, and half the people are dumber than that.


not surprising that is your opinion....I will stick with the people themselves know what is in their best interest.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
AOC has some interesting plans for spending that $3B laying around.


It was clear she did not know anything about that incentive package. Actually it is clear a lot of people that appeared to have strong opinions on the deal did not bother to even read the cliff notes of the deal.


Oh I have to believe she THOUGHT she knew. How can she even have an opinion about whether the deal was good or not for her constituents without actually processing the details of it?

I will say, even though I disagree with her on most things, I do respect the fact that she doesn't necessarily pander to her constituents because I generally agree with the premise that politicians need to cater to the needs of their constituents, and not their wants.


I think we disagree there....that sounds like the politicians know what is best for the people, while the people themselves do not know what is in their best interest.


That’s actually often the case, as is neither knowing. To paraphrase George Carlin, the average person is pretty stupid, and half the people are dumber than that.


not surprising that is your opinion....I will stick with the people themselves know what is in their best interest.


Which is of course why many of them vote against it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Amazon just need to find a state with no state tax or incentive to push it to zero then it'll be pure profit

https://itep.org/amazon-in-its-prime-doubles-profits-pays-0-in-federal-income-taxes/
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
AOC has some interesting plans for spending that $3B laying around.


It was clear she did not know anything about that incentive package. Actually it is clear a lot of people that appeared to have strong opinions on the deal did not bother to even read the cliff notes of the deal.


Oh I have to believe she THOUGHT she knew. How can she even have an opinion about whether the deal was good or not for her constituents without actually processing the details of it?

I will say, even though I disagree with her on most things, I do respect the fact that she doesn't necessarily pander to her constituents because I generally agree with the premise that politicians need to cater to the needs of their constituents, and not their wants.


I think we disagree there....that sounds like the politicians know what is best for the people, while the people themselves do not know what is in their best interest.


As with most things, I think the best approach is a careful balance. People might know what they want, but they aren’t always aware of what the consequences of their desires might be.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

THIS
Thanks to the new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), Amazon’s federal tax responsibility is 21% (down from 35% in previous years). But with the help of tax breaks, according to corporate filings, Amazon won’t be paying a dime to Uncle Sam despite posting more than $11.2 billion in profits in 2018.
_-_---------------------------+

ELEVEN BILLION
IN
PROFIT.PROFIT.PROFIT

ZERO TAXES

That is creepy Very
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-taxes-zero-180337770.html


How could any American explain this?
More profit than millions of citizens combined
And NO TAXES
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

I mean for the most part, I agree with you about NYC offering benefits that no other place in the country can offer....I love NYC, but Amazon HQ2 has several other options in the East. I would guess Boston, New Jersey, Atlanta to name a few could provide Amazon everything it needs.

What I'm saying is that none of those cities will allow Amazon to poach top engineers from other companies with better reputations and work cultures. But some will take the downgrade for NYC exclusively. I don't know to what degree that's Amazon's motivation with HQ2, but it's one area where NYC's value is immense. Other cities have their own draw, but basically no one is transferring from Google in the Bay Area to go live in Atlanta and work at a worse company.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Amazon just need to find a state with no state tax or incentive to push it to zero then it'll be pure profit

https://itep.org/amazon-in-its-prime-doubles-profits-pays-0-in-federal-income-taxes/


There are only 7 states with no income tax; Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire and Tennessee. Only Washington and Texas are capable of supplying the type of talent pool Amazon needs out of the 'no income tax' states. I'd put Philadelphia in the lead at this point, and if Austin can enhance it's bid with more transportation infrastructure development, then they could get back into the race.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject:

As someone who bought in the Seattle area at the peak (May/June 2018) and is already down a few hundred thousand, I hope they bring those jobs back to Seattle to help my house value
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject:

11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).


$5 billions profit in 2017 (no deficit)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
And they will go to a different city, get a similar incentive package, and bring 25K jobs to another cities economy.


Sounds like backward socialism


it is what it is....I am just stating reality. NY, Long Island City, NYC, etc. needed Amazon more than Amazon needed them....and I would guess within seconds of the announcement Amazon had regions all over the East evaluating their odds at getting Amazons interest.

I don't know how much NYC really needed Amazon. It's probably one of a handful of metropolitan areas in the world that doesn't need Amazon.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).



I have losses from "bad decisions" too

I am sure that is part of it.. previous losses .. but those previous losses aren't my fault and they didn't sincerely pay double taxes in the past on those losses

Like the rich people are giving each other giant safety nets if they fail? *I admit to being ignorant of tax laws.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).

Not sure how far back they can roll these forward, but Amazon has only had 6 quarters of loss (totaling less than a billion dollars combined) dating back to 2009, and has been consistently profitable dating back to quarter two of 2015.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
As someone who bought in the Seattle area at the peak (May/June 2018) and is already down a few hundred thousand, I hope they bring those jobs back to Seattle to help my house value


You may have to hold long term. You were part of a frenzy that over cooked the market and hurt a lot of people (including some of you). But folks like you who could afford the mortgage are far more able to withstand a longer hold than people who can’t afford the rents are able to withstand the superheated housing market.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).

Not sure how far back they can roll these forward, but Amazon has only had 6 quarters of loss (totaling less than a billion dollars combined) dating back to 2009, and has been consistently profitable dating back to quarter two of 2015.


Loss Carryforwards differ depending on if we are discussing the actual financial statements they release to the public or for tax purposes (IRS). In regards to the IRS, Net Operating Losses (NOL's) can be carried forward for 20 years and carried back (retroactively reducing current tax liability) for 10 years. NOL carryforwards can only be reflected in GAAP Financial Statements for 7 years max. There are other factors that determine if you can actually carry forward to max amount of years.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:

I mean for the most part, I agree with you about NYC offering benefits that no other place in the country can offer....I love NYC, but Amazon HQ2 has several other options in the East. I would guess Boston, New Jersey, Atlanta to name a few could provide Amazon everything it needs.

What I'm saying is that none of those cities will allow Amazon to poach top engineers from other companies with better reputations and work cultures. But some will take the downgrade for NYC exclusively. I don't know to what degree that's Amazon's motivation with HQ2, but it's one area where NYC's value is immense. Other cities have their own draw, but basically no one is transferring from Google in the Bay Area to go live in Atlanta and work at a worse company.


you make very valid points.

Overall, I wonder how much of this is perceptions shaped by our own experience and environment. For example, I grew up in one of the more impoverished regions of the country. A region that often had an unemployment rate multiple times higher than the national rate. Growing up, it was kind of pounded in my head if someone has a good job with benefits....kind of like be thankful and take no action to lose job was the primary life goal. There was not much of a entrepreneurial or risk taking chapter in my growing up lesson. It was go to college, get a good job, and be thankful.....and move away from here. Therefore, I am kind of wired to take the jobs over all else....cost of living, neighborhood disruptions, environment all tend to come second to the jobs because I have seen the very ugly side of no jobs available.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
11 Billion in profit and no taxes paid?

How many of us were paid less than 100k and owe more than Amazon?

Paid less than 50k and still owe the government?

Pathetic

I don't understand how this is legal or ethical to allow to continue


I'm no tax attorney, but, I believe this is mainly because they had billions in losses the previous years and can carry forward your losses as write offs on future earnings. (There's a limit to this, but yeah).

Not sure how far back they can roll these forward, but Amazon has only had 6 quarters of loss (totaling less than a billion dollars combined) dating back to 2009, and has been consistently profitable dating back to quarter two of 2015.


Yeah, I am sure they have some pretty smart accountants who know how to take advantage of loopholes and other legal tax breaks. I think the operwting losses are just a portion of it.

I dont believe they are evading taxes per se.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Yeah, I am sure they have some pretty smart accountants who know how to take advantage of loopholes and other legal tax breaks. I think the operwting losses are just a portion of it.

I dont believe they are evading taxes per se.


oh they are evading them....just legally evading them.

I do not want to get into a detailed tax discussion, but I will always believe that a complicated personal and corporate tax policy will always favor the wealthiest and richest. There are many simple tax plan theories out there, but they always get destroyed in perception because the narrative will focus on the "little goodies" that us common folk like to take advantage of.....and not the "massive goodies" that the wealthy take advantage of which requires us to either pay more taxes or increase national debt. Make it simple....get rid of almost all of the loopholes and goodies for everyone....and the normal Joe will benefit.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yeah, I am sure they have some pretty smart accountants who know how to take advantage of loopholes and other legal tax breaks. I think the operwting losses are just a portion of it.

I dont believe they are evading taxes per se.


oh they are evading them....just legally evading them.

I do not want to get into a detailed tax discussion, but I will always believe that a complicated personal and corporate tax policy will always favor the wealthiest and richest. There are many simple tax plan theories out there, but they always get destroyed in perception because the narrative will focus on the "little goodies" that us common folk like to take advantage of.....and not the "massive goodies" that the wealthy take advantage of which requires us to either pay more taxes or increase national debt. Make it simple....get rid of almost all of the loopholes and goodies for everyone....and the normal Joe will benefit.


And who gonna do that? GOP? DNC?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yeah, I am sure they have some pretty smart accountants who know how to take advantage of loopholes and other legal tax breaks. I think the operwting losses are just a portion of it.

I dont believe they are evading taxes per se.


oh they are evading them....just legally evading them.

I do not want to get into a detailed tax discussion, but I will always believe that a complicated personal and corporate tax policy will always favor the wealthiest and richest. There are many simple tax plan theories out there, but they always get destroyed in perception because the narrative will focus on the "little goodies" that us common folk like to take advantage of.....and not the "massive goodies" that the wealthy take advantage of which requires us to either pay more taxes or increase national debt. Make it simple....get rid of almost all of the loopholes and goodies for everyone....and the normal Joe will benefit.


Everybody evades taxes to varying degrees. That’s the hypocrisy in all of this.

Sure, I agree with you in theory but if you get rid of every deduction, I don’t know that that would help the average Joe though. I think there are a lot of complexities at play.

Is having a dependent considered a goodie? A person without kids would say so.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yeah, I am sure they have some pretty smart accountants who know how to take advantage of loopholes and other legal tax breaks. I think the operwting losses are just a portion of it.

I dont believe they are evading taxes per se.


oh they are evading them....just legally evading them.

I do not want to get into a detailed tax discussion, but I will always believe that a complicated personal and corporate tax policy will always favor the wealthiest and richest. There are many simple tax plan theories out there, but they always get destroyed in perception because the narrative will focus on the "little goodies" that us common folk like to take advantage of.....and not the "massive goodies" that the wealthy take advantage of which requires us to either pay more taxes or increase national debt. Make it simple....get rid of almost all of the loopholes and goodies for everyone....and the normal Joe will benefit.


And who gonna do that? GOP? DNC?


I doubt it ever gets done...too many powerful and influential people benefit from the current system. Sadly the best solution is unlikely to come from either partisan party.
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