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windycitycane Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2012 Posts: 12933
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: Would our 'young core' players do better in another market? |
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Can't help but notice the DLO and Randell improvements over the past couple of years.
I think there has to be some consideration about these guys going to another market with less pressure, drama, 'look at those numbers in the rafters' type of expectation anyone on the Lakers has to deals with.
The Lakers are the 'rock stars' of the league, the most prestigious team out there. We have a legacy of excellence no other team in the league can't touch, the GOAT on our team and with those expectations come pressure. We expect championships, not mediocrity.
Throw in an inept coaching staff, the Hollywood Life and it must feel like these young kids are under a lot of pressure filled with distractions.
Not sure if they can live up to the hype and was wondering, hypothetically, how they'd do in a smaller market where the pressure is, well, much less?
How much has the 'off the radar' played into DLO's success?
go Lakers! _________________ "I bought the Lakers so I could beat the Celtics" - Dr. Jerry Buss |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I don't know anyone who would consider Brooklyn "off the radar." |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Dlo and Randle are exactly who they would have been for the Lakers as well.
Unfortunately for them, they weren't projected to be top 10 players in this league, and so the FO saw them as throw-away parts.
I just sucks losing potential all-star level talent for effectively nothing because the FO didn't think of them as All-NBA. |
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Staccatos Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 2416
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Not "market" but "coaching" (some semblance of coaching).. |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: |
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The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
If poor defense, tunnel vision, below average 3P shooting can be overlooked to make you the 2nd best player, I guess. But that don't usually impact to wins. Hence we miss certain other players more when they are out. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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saetarubia wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
If poor defense, tunnel vision, below average 3P shooting can be overlooked to make you the 2nd best player, I guess. But that don't usually impact to wins. Hence we miss certain other players more when they are out. |
If you're routinely hurt, what value are you really bringing to your team? Can't get wins from the bench in a suit. |
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where24happens Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 3410
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Ingram and Lonzo would benefit a lot from not being on the Lakers most likely. |
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tony smith Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1960 Location: West LA
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I think it's less the market and more the player development and cohesive system. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Young Lakers suffer from a fanbase with high expectations.
DLO was DOA to some Lakers fans after his first minute in SPL.
Lonzo/BI can do nothing right to some.
It's sort of a perfect recipe for disaster b/c other "homegrown" talent like Magic and Kobe became all time greats, so the fanbase expects our high draft picks to be that too.
They don't have the luxury of being "good" players; they have to be "great" or they're not Lakers material. I hate that mindset as it's led to having a lot of good talent leave for nothing. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
Great scorer huh? Kuzma is averaging 19 points a game! There is 30+ players in this league that average more.
Heck, two of the players you dismiss as thinking they were better than they actually are, are actually scoring better than Kuzma. DLO and Randle are scoring more, and Randle doing it much more efficiently.
What does that make DLO and Randle? Super Great scorers? |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: |
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The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
Great scorer huh? Kuzma is averaging 19 points a game! There is 30+ players in this league that average more.
Heck, two of the players you dismiss as thinking they were better than they actually are, are actually scoring better than Kuzma. DLO and Randle are scoring more, and Randle doing it much more efficiently.
What does that make DLO and Randle? Super Great scorers? |
Guess you missed the "while on the Lakers" part of what I posted. Also, how many of those players are in their second year? Your analysis is apples to oranges here. |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:43 am Post subject: |
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BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
Great scorer huh? Kuzma is averaging 19 points a game! There is 30+ players in this league that average more.
Heck, two of the players you dismiss as thinking they were better than they actually are, are actually scoring better than Kuzma. DLO and Randle are scoring more, and Randle doing it much more efficiently.
What does that make DLO and Randle? Super Great scorers? |
Guess you missed the "while on the Lakers" part of what I posted. Also, how many of those players are in their second year? Your analysis is apples to oranges here. |
That or you can just consider them all 23/24 years old. Dlo turns 23 this month, and Randle (just turned 24) is literally just months older than Kuzma. That DLO and Randle got to the league quicker shouldn't be held against them should it? I see that as a positive. But to answer your question, no, neither are in their 2nd year.
But none of that matters - I was merely calling you to task for your claims of Kuzma being a great shooter, and then a great scorer, and was using DLO and Randle as obvious examples/evidence supporting my claim that he is neither.
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:43 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Young Lakers suffer from a fanbase with high expectations.
DLO was DOA to some Lakers fans after his first minute in SPL.
Lonzo/BI can do nothing right to some.
It's sort of a perfect recipe for disaster b/c other "homegrown" talent like Magic and Kobe became all time greats, so the fanbase expects our high draft picks to be that too.
They don't have the luxury of being "good" players; they have to be "great" or they're not Lakers material. I hate that mindset as it's led to having a lot of good talent leave for nothing. |
It's not the fan base with high expectations, which is typical among NBA teams, that affects them. It's the front office, man. The ones who actually control the fate of these kids. And it's either become a star or something resembling one within your first two years or you're on the trading block. I can't even imagine being forced to go to work with those type of expectations and ramifications, let alone as a 19 to 21-year old. Throw in Lebron now, who's essentially an extension of the FO, and you have to play with and appease him on a daily basis? (bleep).
One thing's for sure, though - we drafted guys with some serious mental fortitude, both the past and present Lakers, and it's going to serve them well in their NBA careers...whether that continues here or elsewhere. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Yes because literally every other team has a shooting coach _________________ Kobe |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo maybe cause he’s sharing the stage with Rondo and Bron but BI and Kuz, prob bout the same, look at Tatum |
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KOBE WAN Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 May 2012 Posts: 508
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:58 am Post subject: |
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saetarubia wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
If poor defense, tunnel vision, below average 3P shooting can be overlooked to make you the 2nd best player, I guess. But that don't usually impact to wins. Hence we miss certain other players more when they are out. |
Every team in the nba including Boston would love to have Kuzma including Boston. |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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KOBE WAN wrote: | saetarubia wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not. |
Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.
In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?
KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better. |
No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far. |
If poor defense, tunnel vision, below average 3P shooting can be overlooked to make you the 2nd best player, I guess. But that don't usually impact to wins. Hence we miss certain other players more when they are out. |
Every team in the nba including Boston would love to have Kuzma including Boston. |
We didn't need Boston to want him.... we needed New Orleans to want him!
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Young Lakers suffer from a fanbase with high expectations.
DLO was DOA to some Lakers fans after his first minute in SPL.
Lonzo/BI can do nothing right to some.
It's sort of a perfect recipe for disaster b/c other "homegrown" talent like Magic and Kobe became all time greats, so the fanbase expects our high draft picks to be that too.
They don't have the luxury of being "good" players; they have to be "great" or they're not Lakers material. I hate that mindset as it's led to having a lot of good talent leave for nothing. |
I agree. I blame Lakers fans and their worship at Kobe temple. Imagine if Kobe chucked 4 air balls in today’s social media climate? Kobe wasn’t Kobe over night. He had great players around him. He didn’t have to do it on his own. These kids are young and misguided. We did them no favors. Mitch, Jim, Magic, Rob, etc. Fans and LA Sports Media went after Jeremy Lin (not young), DLO, Ingram, Zu & Ball. Everyone wanted Clarkson, Randle, and LouWill (not young) traded. People have unrealistic expectations. Don’t believe me, just go visit the Ingram board. After his 2nd season someone here said they would trade him for any lotto pick in the Fultz/Zo draft. We have to be more realistic with these young guys. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Would our 'young core' players do better in another market? |
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windycitycane wrote: | Can't help but notice the DLO and Randell improvements over the past couple of years.
I think there has to be some consideration about these guys going to another market with less pressure, drama, 'look at those numbers in the rafters' type of expectation anyone on the Lakers has to deals with.
The Lakers are the 'rock stars' of the league, the most prestigious team out there. We have a legacy of excellence no other team in the league can't touch, the GOAT on our team and with those expectations come pressure. We expect championships, not mediocrity.
Throw in an inept coaching staff, the Hollywood Life and it must feel like these young kids are under a lot of pressure filled with distractions.
Not sure if they can live up to the hype and was wondering, hypothetically, how they'd do in a smaller market where the pressure is, well, much less?
How much has the 'off the radar' played into DLO's success?
go Lakers! |
Hmm, didn't know Brooklyn was a smaller market. Good that Russell has the distraction-free environment of New York.
Anyway, their improvement strikes me as due to combination of (1) a better role, (2) more minutes and/or (3) modest incremental improvement you'd expect,
I think they could have done just as well in LA, if they are the right role. |
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The Lebrons Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 4778
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Why does everyone conflate "market" with "basketball situation"? |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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The God Particle wrote: |
That or you can just consider them all 23/24 years old. Dlo turns 23 this month, and Randle (just turned 24) is literally just months older than Kuzma. That DLO and Randle got to the league quicker shouldn't be held against them should it? I see that as a positive. But to answer your question, no, neither are in their 2nd year.
But none of that matters - I was merely calling you to task for your claims of Kuzma being a great shooter, and then a great scorer, and was using DLO and Randle as obvious examples/evidence supporting my claim that he is neither.
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Agree to disagree. I don't consider Randle a better scorer than Kuzma right now (although DLo is), and I don't see a single player in the 30+ players you mentioned that is in their second year. While it is good that Randle and DLo entered the league at a younger age (and I do see your point about them being around the same age), the advantage of NBA acclimation that they have had relative to Kuzma will only diminish over time. Regardless, I am excited to see the rising stars game tonight!
Note: I removed extra quotes in this post to save space, but they can be referenced above.
Edit: Checked more closely, and I see 3 with 2 years or less of NBA experience: Mitchell, Luka, and Collins. First two are definitely ahead of Kuz, and I haven't watched much of Collins, to be honest. |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28422 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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The Lebrons wrote: | Why does everyone conflate "market" with "basketball situation"? |
Too many smarmy contrarians on this board trying to look smart.
Were I a young player I'd much rather be in Brooklyn right now. Just a better situation to develop in. |
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