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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject:

Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.


Think he has the lowest.

Zo isn't really basketball athletic imo. He's like Chase Budinger athletic.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Kobesystem wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.


Think he has the lowest.

Zo isn't really basketball athletic imo. He's like Chase Budinger athletic.


Lol, you serious? Fox is really fast, but Lonzo is almost as fast and is super bouncy. He might be the best athlete on the list. You’re funny.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Kobesystem wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.


Think he has the lowest.

Zo isn't really basketball athletic imo. He's like Chase Budinger athletic.


Dude is quick as lightning, has hops and is 6'6. He has elite athleticism imo but I think his shot mechanics will always limit his ceiling until he fixes that mess.


Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kobesystem
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kobesystem wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.


Think he has the lowest.

Zo isn't really basketball athletic imo. He's like Chase Budinger athletic.


Lol, you serious? Fox is really fast, but Lonzo is almost as fast and is super bouncy. He might be the best athlete on the list. You’re funny.


Lonzo is nowhere near as quick as Fox. Lonzo has good straight line speed (cause of his height) and hops, but thats pretty much it....
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Relative to my perception of mainstream expectations of them...

I'm in on:
Fox - Stud
Russell - Can be a #1 guy on a playoff team
Lonzo - I see Draymond impact at guard + 3pt shooting

Neutral on:
Randle

Down on:
Tatum - This is because everyone else is seemingly so high on him. I don't see this 25ppg, #1 caliber guy. Great playoffs last year, I just don't see massive upside.
Kuz - Better wing version of Clarkson to me. Not a plus guy in anything other than scoring.
BI - He was developed to be this PnR, ISO guy, and I don't think that's him. Don't see him being a 20ppg guy on a good team.

Im high on the guards, lower on the wings.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kobesystem wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Zo has among the highest ceiling but probably the longest way to get there. He is also starting at a lower point than Fox or Tatum.


Think he has the lowest.

Zo isn't really basketball athletic imo. He's like Chase Budinger athletic.


Lol, you serious? Fox is really fast, but Lonzo is almost as fast and is super bouncy. He might be the best athlete on the list. You’re funny.


he is straight line fast and has solid 2 feet leaping ability....but he is extremely stiff, and I assume that is why many people doubt his athleticism. Like if football.....they call a really fast Cornerback who lacks elite body and hip fluidity a Safety. One can look at particular aspects of them...their 40 speed, their vertical jump, etc. and decide they are very athletic....just not the type of athleticism required to play Cornerback. That is where Lonzo comes up short in my opinion when compared to guys like Fox and Tatum in athleticism....they have much better fluidity in their hips, their coordination and body control which is all important in basketball.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Japago wrote:
If we're playing what ifs from past drafts, you should also include Porzingis.

Porzingis
Fox
Tatum

Russell
Ball
Kuzma

Ingram
Randle

I think the top 3 become stars. I think the next 3 are very good players who sneak into an all-star game or 2. I think the last 2 are good, but limited players who never sniff an all-star game.

I think Ball is easily the hardest to predict. His range will be dictated by how much his scoring improves. I don't think he needs to be a 20+ guy to be a star. But, he can be so limited that you question of he can ever be consistently adequate.


Didn't include KP as we never really considered him. That year was essentially D'lo or Okafor and no need to put Okafor on this list...As a what-if, could also have put Donovan Mitchell, but there was no way we were taking him at #2 also.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
Japago wrote:
If we're playing what ifs from past drafts, you should also include Porzingis.

Porzingis
Fox
Tatum

Russell
Ball
Kuzma

Ingram
Randle

I think the top 3 become stars. I think the next 3 are very good players who sneak into an all-star game or 2. I think the last 2 are good, but limited players who never sniff an all-star game.

I think Ball is easily the hardest to predict. His range will be dictated by how much his scoring improves. I don't think he needs to be a 20+ guy to be a star. But, he can be so limited that you question of he can ever be consistently adequate.


Didn't include KP as we never really considered him. That year was essentially D'lo or Okafor and no need to put Okafor on this list...As a what-if, could also have put Donovan Mitchell, but there was no way we were taking him at #2 also.


Not true. Porzingis was our guy until Byron got him in a workout against Mark Madsen and decided he wasn’t tough enough. Had the tank commander not had a say, we were taking Kristaps #2.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Just to ask a question of the folks who like DLO so much, if Dipo didn’t get hurt and DLO wasn’t on the all star team, what would your feelings be? Did dipo getting hurt make DLO better? Just food for thought.


Why would anyone's feelings change? He was balling whether or not he made the ASG as Dipo's replacement.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Just as an FYI, Ingram is averaging more points than Tatum... on the same number of shot attempts and without a 3 pt jumper. I'd argue Ingram has insane room to grow if the Lakers develop him properly. Personally, I think it's game over if he develops some semblance of a 3pt shot. Opens up the floor for everyone.


We're already not developing him properly. From the FO to the coaching staff, no one seems to know how to properly use him. He's spent his whole young NBA career developing his ISO game at nearly the expense of everything that he could actually be good at.

If another organization was developing Ingram? Yeah i might put him #1.

With the Lakers developing him?

Definitely below Tatum, Fox and even DLO.
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject:

RusselDoeee01 wrote:
Ingram is having a better season than Tatum.... with a worse system, worse Coach, and the most ball dominant player in the league...


Pretty much agree with this. I'm really quite happy with the season he's having, TBH
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deal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject:

Lets' see

1- Tatum
2- DLO
3- Randle
4- Kuz
5- Fox
6- Zo
7- BI


Zo is pretty over rated by some LAL fans, not saying he's bad
but right now he's not close to my top 4 IMO.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject:

1. Tatum
2. Zo
3. Fox
4. Kuz
5. Dlo
6. Randle
7. Ingram

BI and Randle are way too easy to defend. Id take Kuz over Dlo. Zo looked like he was finally becoming what we thought he could be before he got hurt.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rank These Players

LakersDC wrote:
Curious how everyone would rank these players we either have, had, or could have had assuming they were to play with this LBJ led Lakers team:

BI
Kuz
Zo
D'lo
Randle
Tatum
Fox

I'd go:
1) Fox (think this kid will still improve a lot - maybe not the best compliment to LBJ, but he's a Vegeta fan and I'd like a star PG in this era of dominant PGs)
2) Tatum (two guys we didn't take off the board first, lol)
3) D'lo (Always liked his swag, just wish he'd drive more often than settle)
4) BI/Kuz (cop-out)
5) Randle
6) Zo (I think Zo has potential, his game is just not very well suited to play with a ball dominant LBJ IMO) Was hoping to see an off-ball LBJ this year and maybe LBJ taking PG duties in the fourth, but basically plays PG all game, and Zo is turrible off-ball.


1)DLo - he brings a better passing, worse shooting Kyrie-ish package at only 22 years of age. He's a better scorer than Ball, a better passer than Tatum, Kuz, Randle, and Fox, and not unplayable defensively. He'd be most effective at fitting in as a #2 or (preferably) #3 option next to Lebron asap.

2) Fox - his improvement as a passer has been more impressive than his improvement as a shooter, and his improvement as a shooter has been most impressive. I think his rate of improvement has surpassed that of anyone on this list, so I'd be more willing to bet on his continued growth right now. I'd need to dig deeper into his C&S and playtype #s to get a feel for he'd play off of Lebron.

3) Ball - I think the defensive impact really elevates him on this list of mostly adequate to poor defenders. I'd put him at #2 on the list if the Lakers could add a second high volume scorer this summer. His defense may be the best skill among this group and ge's shown flashes of finding his niche on offense with and without Lebron. But only flashes so far, of course, in an overall underwhelming offensive performance to date.

4) Tatum - he showed more last season in an off-ball role, which I think would be beneficial as a second scorer next to Lebron. The stagnation this season is a little concerning. Overall if he was a bit more productive as a passer or a true lockdown wing defender, he could easily rise to #1 of this group, and we could see those kind of improvements.

5) Ingram - still a young third year player with intriguing upside, his improvement on defense this season has been significant in his current impact and in projecting his long-term upside. I remain skeptical of his offensive fit next to Lebron, but being the best wing defender in this group is significant in reducing pressure on Lebron to guard the KDs and PG13s of the West.

6) Kuz - not a knock on the guy, and he's such a wonderful offensive fit next to Lebron when his three is falling...but do you trust his three to fall consistently in the playoffs? If not, I don't know that the value of his perpetual motion offsets how much he'll be headhunted on defense in the playoffs. Love his character, love his confidence, though, and he could make a fool out of me putting him this low.

7) Randle - potentially useful in a small ball C role next to Lebron, the fact that he's only defended well for a few months of his career is very disconcerting. Being a fifth year player and given both his overlap with Lebron and his inconsistent effort on defense, I'd put Randle at the bottom of this list of talented young players - nonetheless, I'd happily take him back on the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Just to ask a question of the folks who like DLO so much, if Dipo didn’t get hurt and DLO wasn’t on the all star team, what would your feelings be? Did dipo getting hurt make DLO better? Just food for thought.


DLO was a rookie playing under Kobe's farewell tour. Everything that year was out of whack... so I don't even count it.

Anyone with a brain knew the kid has skills... what he didn't have was NBA experience.

What we did see were glimpses of something special... including the heart to want the ball in his hand for the final shot... with the game on the line. That, you can't teach.

What absolutely sucked was not that he was traded...but that he was, arguably, traded prematurely. If we had given DLO time to develop into an All Star player... I can damn well guarantee we would have gotten something more valuable than just salary cap relief.

The DLO trade smelled all wrong. It was the first sign that Magic wanted to wipe away almost everything to do with Kupchak and Jim Buss. DLO was their prized possession and Magic couldn't wait to trade him.

Hell, even after the trade, Magic made some personal and unnecessary comments degrading DLO... further revealing that this was... just as much a personal issue with Magic as it was about anything else.

It was no mystery that Magic strongly preferred Jahlil Okafor over De'Angelo Russell as the draft neared.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Just as an FYI, Ingram is averaging more points than Tatum... on the same number of shot attempts and without a 3 pt jumper. I'd argue Ingram has insane room to grow if the Lakers develop him properly. Personally, I think it's game over if he develops some semblance of a 3pt shot. Opens up the floor for everyone.


We're already not developing him properly. From the FO to the coaching staff, no one seems to know how to properly use him. He's spent his whole young NBA career developing his ISO game at nearly the expense of everything that he could actually be good at.

If another organization was developing Ingram? Yeah i might put him #1.

With the Lakers developing him?

Definitely below Tatum, Fox and even DLO.

I would implore you to consider that BI's development process may be very untraditional and non-linear. Last summer he focused on finishing, and this year he's putting that into practice. Hopefully, this summer he really focuses on perfecting his shooting stroke, then puts that into practice next season. After that, hopefully he gets stronger.

He's 21, and he works hard, and it's not completely up to the Lakers how he develops. He's a late bloomer who is not naturally physically strong, and I think he just needs more time.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:56 am    Post subject:

1. Zo - Outside the box pick but it's based on his upside. I think he will sort out his scoring and when he does his upside is the highest. If we're picking right now he's probably at the bottom of the list with Kuzma and BI. But his weakness right now is scoring, and that's fixable.
2. Tatum - I'm not nearly as high on Tatum as a lot of others are. He's very solid and plays both ends, and is also very young. But he receives a lot of hype for a 16 point a game scorer.
3. Fox - I picked Fox ahead of Russell here because I like his upside more. He showed huge improvement from his rookie season.
4. D'lo - He's reaching his potential now. I'm not sure how high he can go as he's the worst athlete in the list but he may be the best player right now.
5. BI - The upside is there, defense is there. He needs to improve his jumper if he can get to where he wants to go there. I only have him higher than Randle and Kuzma based on potential.
6. Randle - Randle is a proven 20/9 player at this point. In the right environment I think he can thrive and he's still relatively young.
7. Kuz - I don't want to crap on Kuzma in this list. He's the steal of his draft. Is a very good scorer. But he's a streaky volume shooter, who isn't really good at anything else. I think he has the potential to be the best scorer on the list. He's going to need to improve as a defender and rebounder, and find more consistency in his three point shot to outperform those other guys over his career.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:01 am    Post subject:

We should keep young players only for the following 3 reasons:

1) they have franchise player potential for a championship team;
2) they have core members potential for a championship team;
3) they are role player material for a championship team and at reasonable price

D’lo is a marginal all star, but may not be core member material for championship team. He isn’t unstoppable nor efficient scorer. He doesn’t deserve us to play max

Randle, Zubac are marginal starters, but not for championship team, thus don’t deserve us 10m+ contracts

Clarkson and Nance are role players material, but overpriced to us.

Thus I have no problem we traded them as we’re aiming at building a championship team.

Ball, Kuzma and Hart are supporting players material now, and will under their rookie contracts for 2-3 more years. Thus they’re keepers..

Ingram’s rookie contract will be expired after next season. He has to prove he is a core member of the team, or he may get traded before he could sign a big contract.

We’re aiming to build a championship team and should manage to spend every penny properly. It’s more important than to keep or develop those young players.

For example, if we could land KD or Leonard in this summer and decide to retain Ingram next hear, then we have to spend about $80m to keep these 3 players (including James). That leave us $40-50m to spend for rest of 12 players.


Last edited by Sina on Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject:

Where I think they end up:

1: Fox (think he develops into a quick scoring PG that’s almost top 100 all-time quality)
2: Tatum (ceiling is current PG, floor is DeRozan with a three point shot, think he ends up in the middle)
3:DLo (will get three or so All-Star appearances over his career, good scoring point guard)
4: Kuzma (similar to DLo, on his scoring alone could get two or three All-Star gigs)
5: Ingram (career borderline All-Star I think)
6: Randle (defensive deficiencies will hurt him, but still a solid 18-20/9-10 player)
7: Ball (Rubio with great defense)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Just as an FYI, Ingram is averaging more points than Tatum... on the same number of shot attempts and without a 3 pt jumper. I'd argue Ingram has insane room to grow if the Lakers develop him properly. Personally, I think it's game over if he develops some semblance of a 3pt shot. Opens up the floor for everyone.


We're already not developing him properly. From the FO to the coaching staff, no one seems to know how to properly use him. He's spent his whole young NBA career developing his ISO game at nearly the expense of everything that he could actually be good at.

If another organization was developing Ingram? Yeah i might put him #1.

With the Lakers developing him?

Definitely below Tatum, Fox and even DLO.


The beauty though is watching him coming along in other aspects of his game. These are things he’s figuring out on his own (or with help from the vets). He’s just been thrown into the fire as a top guy. Wrote it’s necessary. Put him in an offense that does a good job of actually getting guys open threes and better movement, better suited role,.. I actually think he’s above Tatum. He and Tatum basically have the same job as second fiddle in shot creating but Tatum hasn’t outscored him or out passed. Tatum hasn’t shown he can give lead scorers/ballhandlers fits like BI either. But his off ball D is better as is his rebounding and three point shooting.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Rank These Players

LakersDC wrote:
Curious how everyone would rank these players we either have, had, or could have had assuming they were to play with this LBJ led Lakers team:

BI
Kuz
Zo
D'lo
Randle
Tatum
Fox

I'd go:
1) Fox (think this kid will still improve a lot - maybe not the best compliment to LBJ, but he's a Vegeta fan and I'd like a star PG in this era of dominant PGs)
2) Tatum (two guys we didn't take off the board first, lol)
3) D'lo (Always liked his swag, just wish he'd drive more often than settle)
4) BI/Kuz (cop-out)
5) Randle
6) Zo (I think Zo has potential, his game is just not very well suited to play with a ball dominant LBJ IMO) Was hoping to see an off-ball LBJ this year and maybe LBJ taking PG duties in the fourth, but basically plays PG all game, and Zo is turrible off-ball.



1. Randle he is a 20/9.5 with 34% from 3 and a very good defender
2. Russell 20/6 assists 37% 3
3. Zo: Top defensive player in the group and best passer, changes the game
4/5 Kuz/Tatum Both showing that they may become scorers
6 BI/Fox both are young improving and have okay production
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject:

Fox
Tatum
Russell
Lonzo
Kuzma
Ingram
Randle

I wanted Zo over Fox. I didn't even think we should consider Fox. But yeah he has impressed me. I think he's more talented than Tatum. Fox should have went #1 overall.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Russell
Tatum 2b) Fox
Lonzo
Kuz 5b) Ingram


Fewtchure
Tier1
Tatum/Lonzo/Russell
Tier 2
Fox/Kuzma/Ingram


I agree with all of this.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject:

Fox has had a really good start to this year after a bad rookie year. He’s better than I expected him to be but I think he’s getting pretty overrated on here. Regardless, if we keep Ball that could be a fun matchup to watch for the next several years.
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