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adkindo
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 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | just curious....is Kraft supposedly still in a relationship with Ricki Noel Lander? I recall she had a baby last year, and he claimed it was not his.....but was never clear if they were still dating or whatever. |
Don't know if they're still dating. She said he was not the baby's father. |
that is the PR angle if they are no longer dating....play the 77 year old widower who tried to have relationships in the past, but saw how unfair it was to put the female in the middle of a media spotlight, so he has avoided companionship in recent years.....and the loneliness just caused him to make a poor decision. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | That doesn't apply to this as the parlor was being investigated for women being forced into sexual servitude.
And I'm not sure if it is legal or not in Florida/that county but if it's not then he shouldn't get a pass because the law he broke "shouldn't be a law" or he didn't know about the law. He still solicited sexual acts from an establishment that allegedly was forcing women to do those acts, even if they acted like they were consenting. |
Well, you're right, whether I agree with something being a crime or not, doesn't change the fact that solicitation is a crime and he knows that it is and so he should be punished accordingly.
However, my original post simply stated that I don't understand why solicitation of prostitution is a crime at all. It seems archaic to me from the old puritannical days. Now, as JMK said, I did say 'this' instead of specifically referring to the thread title, so I could see how that might have seemed like I was referring to sex trafficking, but I wasn't, just the crime in which Kraft was arrested for. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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What if Jeb! attended one of these parlors?
"Please fap"
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | That doesn't apply to this as the parlor was being investigated for women being forced into sexual servitude.
And I'm not sure if it is legal or not in Florida/that county but if it's not then he shouldn't get a pass because the law he broke "shouldn't be a law" or he didn't know about the law. He still solicited sexual acts from an establishment that allegedly was forcing women to do those acts, even if they acted like they were consenting. |
Well, you're right, whether I agree with something being a crime or not, doesn't change the fact that solicitation is a crime and he knows that it is and so he should be punished accordingly.
However, my original post simply stated that I don't understand why solicitation of prostitution is a crime at all. It seems archaic to me from the old puritannical days. Now, as JMK said, I did say 'this' instead of specifically referring to the thread title, so I could see how that might have seemed like I was referring to sex trafficking, but I wasn't, just the crime in which Kraft was arrested for. |
Gotcha. I agree. In this instance it's a bit more complicated with the coercion that seems to be involved by the people in charge.
But in general, yes I agree that a consenting adult should be able to sell that service to another adult if they choose to.
One note on the solicitation charges - IMO, even if prostitution was legal where this happened, since the girls were coerced into prostitution I think that even if the services were bought by someone who doesn't know about that, they should still be charged because they are still involved in criminal activity. Having no idea that you're breaking the law shouldn't give you a pass. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| one thing that I was surprised by was the actual location....did you see the images? It is not like some self standing day spa like with its own parking lot.....it is in a strip mall, basically just your standard nail salon. Just a little surprised a billionaire like Kraft would just pull up walk into the nail salon between the Dollar Tree and the Payless shoe store. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | That doesn't apply to this as the parlor was being investigated for women being forced into sexual servitude.
And I'm not sure if it is legal or not in Florida/that county but if it's not then he shouldn't get a pass because the law he broke "shouldn't be a law" or he didn't know about the law. He still solicited sexual acts from an establishment that allegedly was forcing women to do those acts, even if they acted like they were consenting. |
Well, you're right, whether I agree with something being a crime or not, doesn't change the fact that solicitation is a crime and he knows that it is and so he should be punished accordingly.
However, my original post simply stated that I don't understand why solicitation of prostitution is a crime at all. It seems archaic to me from the old puritannical days. Now, as JMK said, I did say 'this' instead of specifically referring to the thread title, so I could see how that might have seemed like I was referring to sex trafficking, but I wasn't, just the crime in which Kraft was arrested for. |
Gotcha. I agree. In this instance it's a bit more complicated with the coercion that seems to be involved by the people in charge.
But in general, yes I agree that a consenting adult should be able to sell that service to another adult if they choose to.
One note on the solicitation charges - IMO, even if prostitution was legal where this happened, since the girls were coerced into prostitution I think that even if the services were bought by someone who doesn't know about that, they should still be charged because they are still involved in criminal activity. Having no idea that you're breaking the law shouldn't give you a pass. |
That is going to open up a huge can of worms if you do that and people by the millions would be charged with crimes, and, potentially, even every single citizen. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | one thing that I was surprised by was the actual location....did you see the images? It is not like some self standing day spa like with its own parking lot.....it is in a strip mall, basically just your standard nail salon. Just a little surprised a billionaire like Kraft would just pull up walk into the nail salon between the Dollar Tree and the Payless shoe store. |
Maybe that was the appeal?  |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | one thing that I was surprised by was the actual location....did you see the images? It is not like some self standing day spa like with its own parking lot.....it is in a strip mall, basically just your standard nail salon. Just a little surprised a billionaire like Kraft would just pull up walk into the nail salon between the Dollar Tree and the Payless shoe store. |
Ironically, he might have thought this gave him more privacy than an exclusive service that might sell him out to a tabloid.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | one thing that I was surprised by was the actual location....did you see the images? It is not like some self standing day spa like with its own parking lot.....it is in a strip mall, basically just your standard nail salon. Just a little surprised a billionaire like Kraft would just pull up walk into the nail salon between the Dollar Tree and the Payless shoe store. |
Ironically, he might have thought this gave him more privacy than an exclusive service that might sell him out to a tabloid. |
Yup. We have tons of them like that out here in Orange County.
If you go to one among established businesses, it gives you some plausible deniability. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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This was an interesting, lengthy read on the breakup of an alleged Korean sex trafficking ring in Seattle a few years back: Reason.com.
Basically the article argues it was a prostitution sting that authorities sold as arresting sex traffickers. Without additional information, it may be worth being a little skeptical of police sources claiming such in this case in Florida.
| Quote: | | "Migrant sex workers, especially Asian migrant workers, are often inaccurately labeled as trafficking victims," Savannah Sly, board president for the Sex Workers Outreach Project (SWOP), cautioned in a statement at the time of the bust. "Just because a women came to the U.S. and works as an escort does not mean she did so involuntarily." |
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme.
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | That doesn't apply to this as the parlor was being investigated for women being forced into sexual servitude.
And I'm not sure if it is legal or not in Florida/that county but if it's not then he shouldn't get a pass because the law he broke "shouldn't be a law" or he didn't know about the law. He still solicited sexual acts from an establishment that allegedly was forcing women to do those acts, even if they acted like they were consenting. |
Well, you're right, whether I agree with something being a crime or not, doesn't change the fact that solicitation is a crime and he knows that it is and so he should be punished accordingly.
However, my original post simply stated that I don't understand why solicitation of prostitution is a crime at all. It seems archaic to me from the old puritannical days. Now, as JMK said, I did say 'this' instead of specifically referring to the thread title, so I could see how that might have seemed like I was referring to sex trafficking, but I wasn't, just the crime in which Kraft was arrested for. |
Gotcha. I agree. In this instance it's a bit more complicated with the coercion that seems to be involved by the people in charge.
But in general, yes I agree that a consenting adult should be able to sell that service to another adult if they choose to.
One note on the solicitation charges - IMO, even if prostitution was legal where this happened, since the girls were coerced into prostitution I think that even if the services were bought by someone who doesn't know about that, they should still be charged because they are still involved in criminal activity. Having no idea that you're breaking the law shouldn't give you a pass. |
That is going to open up a huge can of worms if you do that and people by the millions would be charged with crimes, and, potentially, even every single citizen. |
Is it though? Adults can get charged with statutory even if they don't know the person is under the age of consent. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
Not really. It's a pretty significant issue, and if you are partaking, you're at some significant risk of "renting" a trafficked person. Especially off the street or in an establishment like a massage parlor.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
Not really. It's a pretty significant issue, and if you are partaking, you're at some significant risk of "renting" a trafficked person. Especially off the street or in an establishment like a massage parlor. |
Right, but there's a whole industry of men and women who provide escort services of their own accord, control their own finances, run websites and social media accounts promoting their services, etc.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
Not really. It's a pretty significant issue, and if you are partaking, you're at some significant risk of "renting" a trafficked person. Especially off the street or in an establishment like a massage parlor. |
Right, but there's a whole industry of men and women who provide escort services of their own accord, control their own finances, run websites and social media accounts promoting their services, etc. |
Sure, I understand that, but there are traffickers who run in those circles as well, and without clear laws and regulations establishing who is who, as the customer, you can't be sure, thus you assume some risk that you are renting a trafficked person, even with high level escorts.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
It's the reality.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
Not really. It's a pretty significant issue, and if you are partaking, you're at some significant risk of "renting" a trafficked person. Especially off the street or in an establishment like a massage parlor. |
Right, but there's a whole industry of men and women who provide escort services of their own accord, control their own finances, run websites and social media accounts promoting their services, etc. |
Sure, I understand that, but there are traffickers who run in those circles as well, and without clear laws and regulations establishing who is who, as the customer, you can't be sure, thus you assume some risk that you are renting a trafficked person, even with high level escorts. |
Have fun: https://twitter.com/canadiansexpro?lang=en
More fun: https://twitter.com/YEVG3NIYA
Twitter is a wonderland: https://twitter.com/clevertravels
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
It's the reality. |
You're a sex worker?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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A follow-up thread:
| Quote: | Kate
@KateDAdamo
Replying to
@VeroBeachPD
and
@Polaris_Project
Since no one was charged with trafficking - what’s happening to those who were working in the places raided? |
https://twitter.com/KateDAdamo/status/1099100555706806272
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
It's the reality. |
You're a sex worker? |
Don't have to be one to know that many aren't by personal choice.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Who would have guessed an asian massage place was a front for prostitution?
I thought they looked at me odd the last time I asked for a Swedish Massage with my de rigueur table shower. (<$10 off before noon coupon)
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
It's the reality. |
You're a sex worker? |
Don't have to be one to know that many aren't by personal choice. |
And many are.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm surprised he decided to get his happy ending at a strip mall massage joint instead of asking Tiger or Charlie Sheen to hook him up.... |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | FWIW, I believe prostitution should be legal (not a moral judgment either way, just a belief in individual rights), but until it is and mechanisms are set in place to regulate the safety and free will of the participants, when you go to a prostitute, you are tacitly accepting the fact that you may be paying for sex from a person who does not freely consent. |
That's extreme. |
It's the reality. |
You're a sex worker? |
Don't have to be one to know that many aren't by personal choice. |
And many are. |
Neither Omar nor I said otherwise. The point is that when it is an illegal trade, you can never be sure of the circumstances, even when you think you are.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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