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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:25 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
eureca wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikeyvp/status/1119468309521395712



If I voted for him for MVP I would ask the NBA if I could take it back after seeing that.


They should have pregame briefings for officials with footage of all the players who fake fouls and dive.

They should even post stats of which players lead the league in bullsh*t claims... faking contact like this... claiming they didn't touch the ball last when you can clearly see it came off of their hands... showing who argues against traveling and double dribble calls... I bet it would help cure that cheating quickly.


My problem with Harden's game is that it's so reliant upon getting foul calls. If he doesn't get them for some reason, then he drops to being a mid-tier All-Star rather than an MVP level player.


This silly myth needs to die. The grand majority of his points come from iso 3-pointers. If you took away all free throws from everyone he’d still lead the league in scoring. He had 29/10 and 32/10 in the first two games and only shot 3 and 5 FTs.


The game is not nearly this simple. Defenders know they can't really guard him close which makes his scoring much easier. There is also a mental aspect which I wont get into, but the point is the flopping most certainly aids his game as a whole. Harden is not the only one to do it. Its just a league full of flopper's these days. Some like it, and others like me don't. I hated Fisher for being a flopper among other things.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
eureca wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikeyvp/status/1119468309521395712



If I voted for him for MVP I would ask the NBA if I could take it back after seeing that.


They should have pregame briefings for officials with footage of all the players who fake fouls and dive.

They should even post stats of which players lead the league in bullsh*t claims... faking contact like this... claiming they didn't touch the ball last when you can clearly see it came off of their hands... showing who argues against traveling and double dribble calls... I bet it would help cure that cheating quickly.


My problem with Harden's game is that it's so reliant upon getting foul calls. If he doesn't get them for some reason, then he drops to being a mid-tier All-Star rather than an MVP level player.


This silly myth needs to die. The grand majority of his points come from iso 3-pointers. If you took away all free throws from everyone he’d still lead the league in scoring. He had 29/10 and 32/10 in the first two games and only shot 3 and 5 FTs.


The game is not nearly this simple. Defenders know they can't really guard him close which makes his scoring much easier. There is also a mental aspect which I wont get into, but the point is the flopping most certainly aids his game as a whole. Harden is not the only one to do it. Its just a league full of flopper's these days. Some like it, and others like me don't. I hated Fisher for being a flopper among other things.


Even if we were to assume all of that were true (lol), the majority of his points come from 3’s where he steps away from defenders....even those guarding him close as they often do....to create separation into an open shot. The silly myth of him relying on FTs to dominate needs to die for a player that has perfected an iso, step away 3-pointer that he is taking and making at historic rates. He’s in Curry territory of 3’s made.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
eureca wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikeyvp/status/1119468309521395712



If I voted for him for MVP I would ask the NBA if I could take it back after seeing that.


They should have pregame briefings for officials with footage of all the players who fake fouls and dive.

They should even post stats of which players lead the league in bullsh*t claims... faking contact like this... claiming they didn't touch the ball last when you can clearly see it came off of their hands... showing who argues against traveling and double dribble calls... I bet it would help cure that cheating quickly.

Agreed! It's not just the cheating that needs to go though, incompetent/corrupt refereeing needs to be cured too. Remember that GSW vs HOU game where KD went out of bounds right in front of the ref and they didn't call or review it? Mind-boggling stuff.
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
defense wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
eureca wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikeyvp/status/1119468309521395712



If I voted for him for MVP I would ask the NBA if I could take it back after seeing that.


They should have pregame briefings for officials with footage of all the players who fake fouls and dive.

They should even post stats of which players lead the league in bullsh*t claims... faking contact like this... claiming they didn't touch the ball last when you can clearly see it came off of their hands... showing who argues against traveling and double dribble calls... I bet it would help cure that cheating quickly.


My problem with Harden's game is that it's so reliant upon getting foul calls. If he doesn't get them for some reason, then he drops to being a mid-tier All-Star rather than an MVP level player.


This silly myth needs to die. The grand majority of his points come from iso 3-pointers. If you took away all free throws from everyone he’d still lead the league in scoring. He had 29/10 and 32/10 in the first two games and only shot 3 and 5 FTs.


The game is not nearly this simple. Defenders know they can't really guard him close which makes his scoring much easier. There is also a mental aspect which I wont get into, but the point is the flopping most certainly aids his game as a whole. Harden is not the only one to do it. Its just a league full of flopper's these days. Some like it, and others like me don't. I hated Fisher for being a flopper among other things.


Even if we were to assume all of that were true (lol), the majority of his points come from 3’s where he steps away from defenders....even those guarding him close as they often do....to create separation into an open shot. The silly myth of him relying on FTs to dominate needs to die for a player that has perfected an iso, step away 3-pointer that he is taking and making at historic rates. He’s in Curry territory of 3’s made.


He is able to create that space in part because he can dribble the air out the ball, get a rhythm, travel, all while the defender is forced to watch for fear of picking up a foul.

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
The silly myth of him relying on FTs to dominate needs to die for a player that has perfected an iso, step away 3-pointer that he is taking and making at historic rates. He’s in Curry territory of 3’s made.


"Silly myth". Yeah, ok.

Harden has made more free throws than shots in his career. He went 6 seasons in a row where he made more free throws than actual shots, and his last 2 seasons he only barely made more shots than free throws.

To show just how absurd that actually is, let's look at some of the game's greatest and most recognizable scorers -

Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Iverson, Steph, Durant, TMac, Melo. Those 8 players were some of the greatest perimeter players the game has ever seen, either as shooters, drivers, mid range, post, or all of the above. Those 8 combined to play 118 seasons. 118 different seasons.

How many of those seasons, for any of those players, were there more free throws made than actual shots? Zero. Nada. Zip. 0/118.

Harden has already done it 6 times, his career thrives off free throws. The way he games the ref is an absolute disgrace and revolting to watch. No superstar in the game has done it that way. If you want to view it as a skill, fine, whatever, that's your opinion. But don't pretend it's a "silly myth". He has relied on free throws more than any superstar ever has, and not just as a one off, but consistently. He's in Curry territory of 3's made? Lol. He's in Corey Maggette territory of living off free throws.
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Tony Almeida
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
eureca wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikeyvp/status/1119468309521395712



If I voted for him for MVP I would ask the NBA if I could take it back after seeing that.


Here is the real angle. Clear foul.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Itamar1710/status/1119962676560629760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1119962676560629760&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231119962676560629760


Oh man, here we go again - Throwback to so much clarity

Wish CMB was in here for this.
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leor_77
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject:

Lame ass Pacers man...F off. Bucks better smash the Celtics next round.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject:

I seriously thought Indiana would do better than this. I thought Boston would ultimately win but I did not expect a sweep.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
I seriously thought Indiana would do better than this. I thought Boston would ultimately win but I did not expect a sweep.


Me 2.

I thought the series had a chance to go deep.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:

He is able to create that space in part because he can dribble the air out the ball, get a rhythm, travel, all while the defender is forced to watch for fear of picking up a foul.


He is able to create that space because rules don’t allow you to handcheck and he has perfected a shot around the gather RULE (it’s not a travel), so if you can’t touch a player you can’t stop him from stepping away from you to shoot. You are arguing that players fear a guy stepping away from them from foul hunting. The very essence is to avoid contact.

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject:

Pacers and Jazz are the biggest disappointments in the playoffs so far.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:

"Silly myth". Yeah, ok.


Yes, beyond silly at this phase. Does Harden make more FTs than FGs now? No, he doesn’t. He’s not even in the top 10 in FT rate this season. If you eliminated everyone’s FTs he’d still lead the league in scoring. The majority of his shots are an iso 3 where he steps away from a defender. He’s completely rebuilt his offensive game the past two offseasons. Lowe has a pretty recent in-depth article on it.

Yes, that silly myth needs to die. “Hey, look at that guy jumping away from everyone on most of his shots, hunting for fouls”. Repeat that to yourself and try not to laugh, or actually watch some of the Rocket games to see how he is playing now. What next, are y’all gonna say Mike D is running the 7 seconds or less offense and ignoring defense completely?

Tony Almeida wrote:

How many of those seasons, for any of those players, were there more free throws made than actual shots? Zero. Nada. Zip. 0/118.


If Kobe and Iverson shot the % Harden does then they woulda done it in 2005 and 2007. And this is pre hand-check removal. I’m sure I could find more examples if I took the time to look. Either way, most of his shots and points now come from a shot where he’s stepping away from the defense. It’s an illogical argument now.


Last edited by Dreamshake on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tony Almeida
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:

"Silly myth". Yeah, ok.


Yes, beyond silly at this phase. Does Harden make more FTs than FGs now? No, he doesn’t. He’s not even in the top 10 in FT rate this season. If you eliminated everyone’s FTs he’d still lead the league in scoring. The majority of his shots are an iso 3 where he steps away from a defender.

Yes, that silly myth needs to die. “Hey, look at that guy jumping away from everyone on most of his shots hunting for fouls”. Repeat that to yourself and try not to laugh.


Way to ignore what that post was about to keep on going with an awful, myopic, agenda. Classic Dreamshake.

Does he make more FTs than FGs now - no, barely. After 6 years in a row where he did, he had these two seasons -

18-19: 843 shots made. 754 free throws made
17-18: 651 shots made. 624 free throws made (lol)

Career 5500 shots made, 5600 free throws made.

Yawn. I'll never respect a superstar who relies on gaming officials and getting to the line as a big part of his game.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:

"Silly myth". Yeah, ok.


Yes, beyond silly at this phase. Does Harden make more FTs than FGs now? No, he doesn’t. He’s not even in the top 10 in FT rate this season. If you eliminated everyone’s FTs he’d still lead the league in scoring. The majority of his shots are an iso 3 where he steps away from a defender.

Yes, that silly myth needs to die. “Hey, look at that guy jumping away from everyone on most of his shots hunting for fouls”. Repeat that to yourself and try not to laugh.


Way to ignore what that post was about to keep on going with an awful, myopic, agenda. Classic Dreamshake.

Does he make more FTs than FGs now - no, barely. After 6 years in a row where he did, he had these two seasons -

18-19: 843 shots made. 754 free throws made
17-18: 651 shots made. 624 free throws made (lol)

Career 5500 shots made, 5600 free throws made.

Yawn. I'll never respect a superstar who relies on gaming officials and getting to the line as a big part of his game.


What part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question....

18-19...his high totals are based on a high shot volume. Again, he’s not even top 10 in FT rate. No facts agree with your argument now. What you mainly see Harden doing now is taking 3’s while stepping away from a defender. Remove FTs and he’s still leading the league in scoring, via taking and making 3’s at a historic rate (volume wise, not % wise).


Last edited by Dreamshake on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tony Almeida
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Imagine being a Harden fan and trying to play the ref card to diminish STEPH CURRY'S three point skills.

Holy (bleep). That's really some next level stuff right there.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject:

So many Warriors fans in Staples
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Imagine being a Harden fan and trying to play the ref card to diminish STEPH CURRY'S three point skills.

Holy (bleep). That's really some next level stuff right there.


I didn’t diminish his skills. I accurately described the shots he takes. Threes he creates and ones he gets from screens, most of which are moving ones. Great shooter in a great system, on a great team with plenty of other shooters that you can’t leave.

But please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question....
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject:

I'm not surprised the Warriors lose interest at times during the game....sometimes it comes too easy for them.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
He is able to create that space because rules don’t allow you to handcheck and he has perfected a shot around the gather RULE (it’s not a travel)


Dreamshake wrote:
Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Dreamshake wrote:
(Curry) Threes he creates and ones he gets from screens, most of which are moving ones. Great shooter in a great system, on a great team with plenty of other shooters that you can’t leave.


Dreamshake wrote:
(Harden) The silly myth of him relying on FTs to dominate needs to die for a player that has perfected an iso, step away 3-pointer that he is taking and making at historic rates. He’s in Curry territory of 3’s made.


Imagine actually believing all of these things and not seeing the irony.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:

Imagine actually believing all of these things and not seeing the irony.


Please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question (3rd time asking, since you are quoting the rest of my posts).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Imagine being a Harden fan and trying to play the ref card to diminish STEPH CURRY'S three point skills.

Holy (bleep). That's really some next level stuff right there.


I didn’t diminish his skills. I accurately described the shots he takes. Threes he creates and ones he gets from screens, most of which are moving ones. Great shooter in a great system, on a great team with plenty of other shooters that you can’t leave.

But please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question....


Dude, he has made more free throws in his career than shots, and he was damn close the last 2 seasons once again. You keep bringing up the iso step back 3, COOL STORY. That isn't what the original point was about. You said it's a silly myth he relies on free throws to dominate.

Nothing you have said has refuted that point. Yeah, he makes step back threes. Cool. You know what else he does? Makes just about as many free throws as shots. Period. Free throws are a huge part of his game, you're trying to pass it off like it's some sidenote. It is not. He relies on them more than any other superstar ever has, period. Step back 3s are irrelevant to the point that free throws have boosted his game to the level they have. You trying to remove them and show he still is the leading scorer isn't helping your argument - because he DOES have the free throws and got to "dominate" at the level he did in large part because of it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Imagine being a Harden fan and trying to play the ref card to diminish STEPH CURRY'S three point skills.

Holy (bleep). That's really some next level stuff right there.


I didn’t diminish his skills. I accurately described the shots he takes. Threes he creates and ones he gets from screens, most of which are moving ones. Great shooter in a great system, on a great team with plenty of other shooters that you can’t leave.

But please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question....


Besides the traveling? The flopping on 95% of them and tricking referees into calling BS fouls. His entire game is based on creating contact and flopping, and defenders being afraid to guard him because they know he's going to flop and refs are going to fall for it.
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Tony Almeida
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:

Imagine actually believing all of these things and not seeing the irony.


Please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question (3rd time asking, since you are quoting the rest of my posts).


If you don't think Harden games the officials, I question just how much of a Rockets fan you really are.

Apparently, in your world all you see is Harden shooting step back 3s. Do free throws even register on your screen? Simple question, since you know, apparently all Harden is doing is shooting iso step back 3's to get to his dominant season.

Oh, all those absurd free throws, flopping, and making just about as many free throws as shots, no big deal, didn't even register, doesn't everyone else do that?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Tony Almeida wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

defense wrote:

Curry gets his 3's in a multitude of ways mostly without flopping, although I'm sure even he does it from time to time.


Curry gets his threes off quick pull-ups and being freed from a myriad of moving screens.


Imagine being a Harden fan and trying to play the ref card to diminish STEPH CURRY'S three point skills.

Holy (bleep). That's really some next level stuff right there.


I didn’t diminish his skills. I accurately described the shots he takes. Threes he creates and ones he gets from screens, most of which are moving ones. Great shooter in a great system, on a great team with plenty of other shooters that you can’t leave.

But please explain what part of an iso step-back 3 is relying on gaming officials? That’s where the majority of his shots and points come from now. Simple question....


Besides the traveling? The flopping on 95% of them and tricking referees into calling BS fouls. His entire game is based on creating contact and flopping, and defenders being afraid to guard him because they know he's going to flop and refs are going to fall for it.


No man, you don't get it. His entire game is iso step back 3s. All those free throws aren't driving his dominance at all. It's really just a sidenote. Barely worth mentioning. All the game's greats got free throws to the level Harden does. It's that damn iso step back 3, which is totally not a travel, that is the real reason he dominates.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Dubs doubling Lou, smart move.
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