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Basketball Fan
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 Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | Is it me or are the French just watching it burn? I have been watching it and I don't see any water being used on it. They are just letting it burn.
It's crazy.....do they not have hoses? Is there not water next to it?
The French are just letting it burn |
They have no choice apparently they don't have the equipment to handle this sort of fire. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Today's technology will probably be able to rebuild the Cathedral but it won't be able to restore it's originality. MSNBC reporting the wealthy's of the world have already began to fund a restoration. |
A little over 25 years ago, Windsor Castle was extensively damaged by a similar fire. Now, Windsor isn't quite the icon and architectural wonder that Notre Dame is and there is no replacing the original wood work and items of history in either structure, they were able to rebuild in sufficient fashion to keep the original core and feel of the Castle.
Notre Dame will never be what it was, bit one hopes they can restore it to something worthy of continuing its character. |
Let Disney throw up something and call it a day. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I think much of America would be shook if St. Patrick's in NYC was destroyed |
St. Patrick’s Day, maybe. St. Patrick’s Church, no so much. |
I don't know that even much of New York would be shook. |
bs, that church is revered in NYC and the East in general. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I think much of America would be shook if St. Patrick's in NYC was destroyed |
St. Patrick’s Day, maybe. St. Patrick’s Church, no so much. |
I don't know that even much of New York would be shook. |
bs, that church is revered in NYC and the East in general. |
In a post 9/11 America, an historic church burning down, isnt going to shake most people. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | Is it me or are the French just watching it burn? I have been watching it and I don't see any water being used on it. They are just letting it burn.
It's crazy.....do they not have hoses? Is there not water next to it?
The French are just letting it burn |
They have no choice apparently they don't have the equipment to handle this sort of fire. |
Its a wakeup call for the fire departments near these types of historical sites that are basically irreplaceable. You have these buildings that have tons of historical value and generate huge sums of money thru tourism but your plan for dealing with a fire if not prompt could mean that the entire structure gets wiped out in a matter of hours. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | Is it me or are the French just watching it burn? I have been watching it and I don't see any water being used on it. They are just letting it burn.
It's crazy.....do they not have hoses? Is there not water next to it?
The French are just letting it burn |
They have no choice apparently they don't have the equipment to handle this sort of fire. |
Its a wakeup call for the fire departments near these types of historical sites that are basically irreplaceable. You have these buildings that have tons of historical value and generate huge sums of money thru tourism but your plan for dealing with a fire if not prompt could mean that the entire structure gets wiped out in a matter of hours. |
I suggest they correspond with contractors who specialize in high rise construction. Though Sky Scraper, the movie, was fiction the sprinkler system was a nudge of reality. Trump Tower caught fire and it's sprinkler system wasn't adequate. When the Cathedral is restored I'm sure fire suppression will be number 1 priority.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
Last I saw, they think it started in the attic space. Which makes sense. All that timber would have been the perfect tinder for a quickly spreading fire, especially when one factors in the chimney effect of the heat sucking up the air from the large space beneath and then funneling through the available upward tunnels of air. Throw in the fact that all stone acts like a brick oven and an attic fire is the perfect recipe for raging fire.
The exterior is solid stone. An exterior fire breaching into the interior through all that stone with the rapidity that fire took off at? Seems unlikely. But who knows for now.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
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In 24 frames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think the roof is made out of stone. I heard they were working on the sphire which is why they had all that scaffolding around it. I would imagine all it took was a wayward spark from a tool for it to set the entire thing on fire. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
Aren't there exterior sprinkler system made for extinguishing outside fires?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think the roof is made out of stone. I heard they were working on the sphire which is why they had all that scaffolding around it. I would imagine all it took was a wayward spark from a tool for it to set the entire thing on fire. |
The spire and roof are constructed on wood covered in lead. The spire wasn't engulfed until later in the fire and the fire was burning in the lower interior prior.
Anyway, there will be a thorough investigation and I'm sure they will find a likely source and cause. But if I were to guess, I would think that the fire started on the interior near the construction where either chemicals being used were improperly stored or some kind of electrical failure that found combustible materials. Given how big and out of control the fire became, it seems that it likely burned for a bit before being detected, which is much kiklier if it started inside the the attic area which is intricate wooden beam construction.
Either way, it's a horrible thing and it's good news that the integrity of the building has been maintained.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I just a couple of photos from inside the cathedral that show some of the interior still somewhat intact.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Looks like they dodged a bullet. The roof is destroyed but now they can probably utilize some sort of fire suppression system in the reconstruction, not necessarily water (which would probably be just as damaging as a fire to old artifacts), I'm thinking something like foam or powder based. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Some good news
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
Aren't there exterior sprinkler system made for extinguishing outside fires? |
Rain? 
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
Aren't there exterior sprinkler system made for extinguishing outside fires? |
Rain? |
I vaguely remember reading people in burn areas have outside fire suppression systems. I know clearing brush and combustibles in those areas is a part of prevention. I'm curious as to how the outside systems, if they exist, work?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think the roof is made out of stone. I heard they were working on the sphire which is why they had all that scaffolding around it. I would imagine all it took was a wayward spark from a tool for it to set the entire thing on fire. |
The spire and roof are constructed on wood covered in lead. The spire wasn't engulfed until later in the fire and the fire was burning in the lower interior prior.
Anyway, there will be a thorough investigation and I'm sure they will find a likely source and cause. But if I were to guess, I would think that the fire started on the interior near the construction where either chemicals being used were improperly stored or some kind of electrical failure that found combustible materials. Given how big and out of control the fire became, it seems that it likely burned for a bit before being detected, which is much kiklier if it started inside the the attic area which is intricate wooden beam construction.
Either way, it's a horrible thing and it's good news that the integrity of the building has been maintained. |
I don't know what kind of renovations they were doing, but I'm thinking a power device or faulty cord or something could've caused sparks. Maybe they were grinding/cutting/shaping stone. As for chemicals, they use a rubbery compound to remove soot/dust from old stone buildings. It's painted on with a brush and then peeled off when dry, akin to silly putty pulling off newsprint. That stuff in itself could be flammable. There'd be hundreds of years worth of combustible dust and dustbunnies that settled into every nook and cranny of the wood that got any air flow, down to the microscopic level. Fires like this hearken back to the age of wooden structures and how ravenous fires were in those days, back when they were much less capable of putting them out.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think the roof is made out of stone. I heard they were working on the sphire which is why they had all that scaffolding around it. I would imagine all it took was a wayward spark from a tool for it to set the entire thing on fire. |
The spire and roof are constructed on wood covered in lead. The spire wasn't engulfed until later in the fire and the fire was burning in the lower interior prior.
Anyway, there will be a thorough investigation and I'm sure they will find a likely source and cause. But if I were to guess, I would think that the fire started on the interior near the construction where either chemicals being used were improperly stored or some kind of electrical failure that found combustible materials. Given how big and out of control the fire became, it seems that it likely burned for a bit before being detected, which is much kiklier if it started inside the the attic area which is intricate wooden beam construction.
Either way, it's a horrible thing and it's good news that the integrity of the building has been maintained. |
I don't know what kind of renovations they were doing, but I'm thinking a power device or faulty cord or something could've caused sparks. Maybe they were grinding stone. There'd be hundreds of years worth of combustible dust and dustbunnies that settled into every nook and cranny of the wood that got any air flow, down to the microscopic level. Fires like this hearken back to the age of wooden structures and how ravenous fires were in those days, back when they were much less capable of putting them out. |
As I said in a different post, I think it could very have been electrical, but I think it had to be more than just some sparks. I think it would also involve highly combustible material being ignited out of view to provide the fire time to get really going before anything could be done about.
Anyway, it's all speculation until the investigators formulate an explanation.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I will be the first to ask
Why would anyone rebuild a Catholic Monument?
Over 600 million has poured in already.
Nothing better to do with that money?
Yes I am callous towards religion when it puts itself above the freedom of humanity. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | I don't think a sprinkler system would've done much good since the fire was most likely started on the outside of the building where they were doing renovations. |
Aren't there exterior sprinkler system made for extinguishing outside fires? |
Rain? |
I vaguely remember reading people in burn areas have outside fire suppression systems. I know clearing brush and combustibles in those areas is a part of prevention. I'm curious as to how the outside systems, if they exist, work? |
FlameSniffer Although it would likely be a bit of an eyesore?
Disclaimer : Ineffective against jet fueled fires in skyscrapers.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | I will be the first to ask
Why would anyone rebuild a Catholic Monument? |
Just to piss off people like you. That makes it worthwhile. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | I will be the first to ask
Why would anyone rebuild a Catholic Monument? |
Just to piss off people like you. That makes it worthwhile. |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | I will be the first to ask
Why would anyone rebuild a Catholic Monument?
Over 600 million has poured in already.
Nothing better to do with that money?
Yes I am callous towards religion when it puts itself above the freedom of humanity. |
It's a historical site. Wouldn't matter if it was Catholic, Muslim, Parisian, Egyptian, or anything else.
Also, most of that money came from two billionaires. |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I think much of America would be shook if St. Patrick's in NYC was destroyed |
St. Patrick’s Day, maybe. St. Patrick’s Church, no so much. |
I don't know that even much of New York would be shook. |
bs, that church is revered in NYC and the East in general. |
In a post 9/11 America, an historic church burning down, isnt going to shake most people. |
Although I'm an atheist I hold St. Patrick's cathedral dear to my heart...someone dear to me named her son after it. But most Americans don't know the thing exists.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
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St. Patrick's Cathedral is a monument that holds a historic place in American lore. However it is not on the same level as Notre Dame Cathedral. St Patrick is America, Notre Dame is the world.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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