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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach? |
No |
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12% |
[ 62 ] |
Yes |
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54% |
[ 271 ] |
Neutral |
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32% |
[ 163 ] |
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Total Votes : 496 |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22248 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | https://www.nba.com/lakers/frank-vogels-approach-nba-basketball
Quote: | “There’s been a major evolution stylistically how I want to play the game, and it’s about the evolution of the league,” he responded. “The whole league has changed with the 3-point shot and the amount of switching that occurs and is necessary to occur on some level – I do believe it’s overdone on some level. But the two years in Orlando, while we were developing the young talent – and it was a rebuild situation – turned into a little bit of a laboratory for me. To figure out this new NBA. Figure out this new world. What is the exact scheme that needs to go in to be successful in the modern NBA. It was a great learning experience. I continued that in my sabbatical year this past year, visiting with teams all around the league, having a lot of lengthy discussions about offensively, how to play this style of play and how to transform the scheme, and defensively as well.” |
OK, how can you NOT root for this guy? |
Hoping for the best.
So far he's been saying all the right things.
Hopefully he endorses the hiring of a shooting coach. |
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LakersRGolden Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7910 Location: Lake Forest
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:14 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Hero Ball wrote: | Practice wrote: | Vogel on ESPN Radio:
"We want FT's 1st. Layups at the rim 2nd. Corner threes 3rd. Angle 3's 4th and then the mid range jumpshot. That's how we're going to prioritize our shot selection." |
what's the meaning of free throws first? |
Good question.
Anyone know? I was thinking it was about making sure the ball moved vertical and attacking the basket. I guess it can also mean be the aggressor to get the calls. |
League average FT was 75.7% => 1.51 points per possession
To average 1.51 points per shot:
Shoot 50.5% on your 3's
75.7% on 2's
Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession.
So initiate contact, don't avoid it on shots. |
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KOBE WAN Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 May 2012 Posts: 508
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | https://www.nba.com/lakers/frank-vogels-approach-nba-basketball
Quote: | “There’s been a major evolution stylistically how I want to play the game, and it’s about the evolution of the league,” he responded. “The whole league has changed with the 3-point shot and the amount of switching that occurs and is necessary to occur on some level – I do believe it’s overdone on some level. But the two years in Orlando, while we were developing the young talent – and it was a rebuild situation – turned into a little bit of a laboratory for me. To figure out this new NBA. Figure out this new world. What is the exact scheme that needs to go in to be successful in the modern NBA. It was a great learning experience. I continued that in my sabbatical year this past year, visiting with teams all around the league, having a lot of lengthy discussions about offensively, how to play this style of play and how to transform the scheme, and defensively as well.” |
OK, how can you NOT root for this guy? |
By the way he talks he seems like a coach who takes his job seriously. He’s also a good communicator by what I’ve seen in a YouTube compilation of his huddles. I wanted Walton to succeed just was not impressed. Vogel is more seasoned and gives me more confidence. This guy even looks like an older Luke Walton. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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LakersRGolden wrote: | epak wrote: | Hero Ball wrote: | Practice wrote: | Vogel on ESPN Radio:
"We want FT's 1st. Layups at the rim 2nd. Corner threes 3rd. Angle 3's 4th and then the mid range jumpshot. That's how we're going to prioritize our shot selection." |
what's the meaning of free throws first? |
Good question.
Anyone know? I was thinking it was about making sure the ball moved vertical and attacking the basket. I guess it can also mean be the aggressor to get the calls. |
League average FT was 75.7% => 1.51 points per possession
To average 1.51 points per shot:
Shoot 50.5% on your 3's
75.7% on 2's
Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession.
So initiate contact, don't avoid it on shots. |
Nice breakdown of the importance of Free throws. There were so many games last year we gave away due to poor FT shooting. Glad it's being made a priority this season along with 3pt shooting especially from the corners |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:21 am Post subject: |
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LakersRGolden wrote: | epak wrote: | Hero Ball wrote: | Practice wrote: | Vogel on ESPN Radio:
"We want FT's 1st. Layups at the rim 2nd. Corner threes 3rd. Angle 3's 4th and then the mid range jumpshot. That's how we're going to prioritize our shot selection." |
what's the meaning of free throws first? |
Good question.
Anyone know? I was thinking it was about making sure the ball moved vertical and attacking the basket. I guess it can also mean be the aggressor to get the calls. |
League average FT was 75.7% => 1.51 points per possession
To average 1.51 points per shot:
Shoot 50.5% on your 3's
75.7% on 2's
Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession.
So initiate contact, don't avoid it on shots. |
Great stuff!! |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: |
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LakersRGolden wrote: | epak wrote: | Hero Ball wrote: | Practice wrote: | Vogel on ESPN Radio:
"We want FT's 1st. Layups at the rim 2nd. Corner threes 3rd. Angle 3's 4th and then the mid range jumpshot. That's how we're going to prioritize our shot selection." |
what's the meaning of free throws first? |
Good question.
Anyone know? I was thinking it was about making sure the ball moved vertical and attacking the basket. I guess it can also mean be the aggressor to get the calls. |
League average FT was 75.7% => 1.51 points per possession
To average 1.51 points per shot:
Shoot 50.5% on your 3's
75.7% on 2's
Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession.
So initiate contact, don't avoid it on shots. |
Keep in mind that doesn’t take into account the times somebody doesn’t get the call and misses the shot. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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LakersRGolden wrote: | Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession. |
This is the reason why almost all regular three point shooters -- not just Harden -- will play for the foul if they get the opportunity. You didn't account for the possibility of a made shot. It is actually possible for the expected points to be greater than three for some players.
When the rules create those sorts of incentives, it is hardly surprising that some players try to capitalize. |
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LakersRGolden Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7910 Location: Lake Forest
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | LakersRGolden wrote: | epak wrote: | Hero Ball wrote: | Practice wrote: | Vogel on ESPN Radio:
"We want FT's 1st. Layups at the rim 2nd. Corner threes 3rd. Angle 3's 4th and then the mid range jumpshot. That's how we're going to prioritize our shot selection." |
what's the meaning of free throws first? |
Good question.
Anyone know? I was thinking it was about making sure the ball moved vertical and attacking the basket. I guess it can also mean be the aggressor to get the calls. |
League average FT was 75.7% => 1.51 points per possession
To average 1.51 points per shot:
Shoot 50.5% on your 3's
75.7% on 2's
Now if you can get Harden treatment and shoot FT's on 3 point attempts that shoots up to 2.271 points per possession.
So initiate contact, don't avoid it on shots. |
Keep in mind that doesn’t take into account the times somebody doesn’t get the call and misses the shot. |
There's a lot of things to take into account
Non-Calls
And-1's
Foul Trouble
Early Bonus
Who's getting fouled
Game-flow start/stop
Fewer Offensive rebounds
And More |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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LAL1947 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | panamaniac wrote: | Japago wrote: | Vogel said the things I wanted to hear. He wants to run a modern NBA offense based on principles set by analytics.
The problem now is that the roster doesn't fit a team that wants to play that way. Between LeBron and the young core, all of them shoot below 34% from 3. Ingram doesn't take nearly enough of them. Kuzma is a decent FT shooter, but the rest are below 68%. Lonzo is a disaster at below 42%. |
After this, maybe the organization will finally fell prompted to hire a shooting coach. |
Shooting coaches cost money |
Doesn't seem like money is an issue for the FO. They were willing to pay the salaries for a coaching staff of Lue + Vogel + Kidd. Since Lue didn't accept that offer, they have part of that money to offer a shooting coach.
Someone really needs to impress upon them the need to hire a shooting coach though! Any thoughts on how to do that? |
Papa Curry might be a good option. I’m sure the Lakers could pay more than his announcers job. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
You should be careful about making proclamations about what prospects will never be. Also Ingram was shooting 75% from the FT line before his injury. So you're wrong about him. |
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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He already seems more knowledgeable about the minute details of basketball in one introductory press conference than Luke did in 3 full seasons. |
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lakerican Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 3780
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | LAL1947 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | panamaniac wrote: | Japago wrote: | Vogel said the things I wanted to hear. He wants to run a modern NBA offense based on principles set by analytics.
The problem now is that the roster doesn't fit a team that wants to play that way. Between LeBron and the young core, all of them shoot below 34% from 3. Ingram doesn't take nearly enough of them. Kuzma is a decent FT shooter, but the rest are below 68%. Lonzo is a disaster at below 42%. |
After this, maybe the organization will finally fell prompted to hire a shooting coach. |
Shooting coaches cost money |
Doesn't seem like money is an issue for the FO. They were willing to pay the salaries for a coaching staff of Lue + Vogel + Kidd. Since Lue didn't accept that offer, they have part of that money to offer a shooting coach.
Someone really needs to impress upon them the need to hire a shooting coach though! Any thoughts on how to do that? |
Papa Curry might be a good option. I’m sure the Lakers could pay more than his announcers job. |
Maybe if we sign his younger son to an adequate 3 years 18m, he will be more into it
That's getting 2 birds with one shot. |
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LAL1947 Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018 Posts: 1855
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | LAL1947 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Shooting coaches cost money |
Doesn't seem like money is an issue for the FO. They were willing to pay the salaries for a coaching staff of Lue + Vogel + Kidd. Since Lue didn't accept that offer, they have part of that money to offer a shooting coach.
Someone really needs to impress upon them the need to hire a shooting coach though! Any thoughts on how to do that? |
Papa Curry might be a good option. I’m sure the Lakers could pay more than his announcers job. |
Sign him up!
lakerican wrote: | Maybe if we sign his younger son to an adequate 3 years 18m, he will be more into it. |
And Seth too, if that helps, lol. |
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Bol Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 4045
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
Of course it's possible for a player to improve their FT shooting. It happens all the time. Even Deandre Jordan became a decent FT shooter this season. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bol wrote: | LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
Of course it's possible for a player to improve their FT shooting. It happens all the time. Even Deandre Jordan became a decent FT shooter this season. |
Lol did this dude really say he can’t improve on his free throws? Wow _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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How do I get to page 710 _________________ Kobe |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Sam Mitchell is available now. He would always say he could help Lonzo with his shooting _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Two things I took from the presser:
1. Vogel comes across as a grinder (aka hard worker). Bonus points for that.
2. I'll have to rewatch this but I think Rob may have thrown a nice sophisticated slice at Magic. I'm pretty sure he said something along the lines of Frank is a hard worker or has good work ethic, which the team needs Gee, I wonder who he would be saying that to (Hello, Magic!) |
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LKA Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018 Posts: 5181 Location: Sin City
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | Bol wrote: | LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
Of course it's possible for a player to improve their FT shooting. It happens all the time. Even Deandre Jordan became a decent FT shooter this season. |
Lol did this dude really say he can’t improve on his free throws? Wow |
Keep things in context .. sure it's possible for him to improve but for Lonzo to go from 40% to 80? You gonna bank on that? i'm not. Sure anything is possible and sure there's been guys who've gone from bad freethrow shooters to good ones, and there's just as many who never become good shooters _________________ I just put my whole damn arm in the fridge
10 chains on Lucky Charms I'm the (bleep) |
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LKA Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018 Posts: 5181 Location: Sin City
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to know how many players there has been in the history of the league that went from historically terrible freethrow shooters to 80+%... I'm not talking about guys who've gone from 70 to 80... Show me a good enough percentage of players for me to think twice and I'll retract _________________ I just put my whole damn arm in the fridge
10 chains on Lucky Charms I'm the (bleep) |
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LKA Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018 Posts: 5181 Location: Sin City
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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SocalDevin wrote: | LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
You should be careful about making proclamations about what prospects will never be. Also Ingram was shooting 75% from the FT line before his injury. So you're wrong about him. |
Technically I'm not wrong 75% is barely average and that wasn't the % he shot for the entire season. Thru 3 seasons he's a 66% freethrow shooter just like in college. When he shoots 80%+ from the line for an entire season then I'll shut up _________________ I just put my whole damn arm in the fridge
10 chains on Lucky Charms I'm the (bleep) |
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drae Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 16144
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Imagine if we get Kyrie. He's a great player but TBH the dude on the Boston bench helped the defense so much whenever he replaced Kyrie on the court. But Kyrie's offensive game is undeniable.
So how would Vogel, a great defensive coach, do with Kyrie and Lebron, two players who aren't so great on the D?
I dunno how I feel about this choice to be honest. I want the season to start so I can see with my own eyes what Vogel will be like |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | LKA wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | I mean.. you guys act like our current squad can't work on improving their FT shooting. |
Rightfully so....this past roster sucked at free throws. Sucked! Not decent, ok, room for improvement, we sucked.
Lonzo should be the first one there and the last one to leave everyday once practice starts. He beyond sucks.
Let's see, room for improvement?
Lonzo - 41.7%
Chandler - 59.4%
McGee - 63.2%
Rondo - 63.9%
Lebron - 66.5%
Ingram - 67.5%
Hart - 68.8% |
No denying how much of an issue it is.. I'm simply saying it can be rectified to an extent.
Rondo McGee, and Chandler probably won't be back.
Ingram was actually trending in a 75% range.. I think it's reasonable to expect Hart to improve as well.
Zo, and Bron are question marks granted.. |
Let's be real here. Lonzo will never be a good FT shooter. You expect him to go from 41% to 80? It doesn't work like that. Ingram will never be a great freethrow shooter either, most likely. It's not easy to turn bad shooters into good shooters. Better off shipping them away for a better piece next to LeBron. Someone who can shoot. Someone that won't lose you a crucial playoff game by tossing a couple Shaq's |
You should be careful about making proclamations about what prospects will never be. Also Ingram was shooting 75% from the FT line before his injury. So you're wrong about him. |
Technically I'm not wrong 75% is barely average and that wasn't the % he shot for the entire season. Thru 3 seasons he's a 66% freethrow shooter just like in college. When he shoots 80%+ from the line for an entire season then I'll shut up |
The point of my post was to point out to you that prospects improve.. Which is what Ingram had demonstrated. It's way too early to make predictions about what Ball will never be. |
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LKA Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018 Posts: 5181 Location: Sin City
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:10 am Post subject: |
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SocalDevin wrote: | The point of my post was to point out to you that prospects improve.. Which is what Ingram had demonstrated. It's way too early to make predictions about what Ball will never be. |
I hear you. I am hoping for the best with Ingram believe it or not.
"Never" might not be the best word but I'll stand by the belief of Lonzo becoming an 80% shooter being very unlikely. _________________ I just put my whole damn arm in the fridge
10 chains on Lucky Charms I'm the (bleep) |
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