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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach? |
No |
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12% |
[ 62 ] |
Yes |
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54% |
[ 271 ] |
Neutral |
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32% |
[ 163 ] |
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Total Votes : 496 |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67315 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: |
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IMO Vogel is the weak link. He has the personnel. I don't think he'll utilize it correctly. I've never liked his lineups or rotations.
Call me a pessimist, I expect trouble between Frank and Bron. This is it. Pelinka built a 1 year, do or die, championship or bust roster. It's full of vets who've been there done that. I don't think Frank has the wherewithal to handle this crew.
Replace Kobe with LeBron, Mike Davis with Frank Vogel _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | IMO Vogel is the weak link. He has the personnel. I don't think he'll utilize it correctly. I've never liked his lineups or rotations.
Call me a pessimist, I expect trouble between Frank and Bron. This is it. Pelinka built a 1 year, do or die, championship or bust roster. It's full of vets who've been there done that. I don't think Frank has the wherewithal to handle this crew.
Replace Kobe with LeBron, Mike Davis with Frank Vogel |
There's a reason why fans always have problems with rotations. It's because it's the easiest part of basketball to criticize. And every fan has their own personal favorite.
Most fans have a hard time criticizing a playbook because playbooks are complicated. They also have a hard time judging how a coach runs the team when they're not on the court because they don't see it.
Frank is already proven he can win a championship with LBJ. He has also proven that he knows how to run of a defense. I just don't agree with your analysis. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67315 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | jodeke wrote: | IMO Vogel is the weak link. He has the personnel. I don't think he'll utilize it correctly. I've never liked his lineups or rotations.
Call me a pessimist, I expect trouble between Frank and Bron. This is it. Pelinka built a 1 year, do or die, championship or bust roster. It's full of vets who've been there done that. I don't think Frank has the wherewithal to handle this crew.
Replace Kobe with LeBron, Mike Davis with Frank Vogel |
There's a reason why fans always have problems with rotations. It's because it's the easiest part of basketball to criticize. And every fan has their own personal favorite.
Most fans have a hard time criticizing a playbook because playbooks are complicated. They also have a hard time judging how a coach runs the team when they're not on the court because they don't see it.
Frank is already proven he can win a championship with LBJ. He has also proven that he knows how to run of a defense. I just don't agree with your analysis. |
I'm a proverbial armchair head coach. I know nothing about the real thing. I'm also not the only fan in the forum not pleased with Frank's lineups and rotations. Others are on the bus.
I know he won a ship with Bron. I don't discount that. This is a new day, roster and concern. It's do or die, ship or bust. I don't think Frank can handle it. I hope I'm wrong.
Hell, I've posted this before and ended the post with I hope I'm wrong. If Frank succeeds we succeed. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: | jodeke wrote: | IMO Vogel is the weak link. He has the personnel. I don't think he'll utilize it correctly. I've never liked his lineups or rotations.
Call me a pessimist, I expect trouble between Frank and Bron. This is it. Pelinka built a 1 year, do or die, championship or bust roster. It's full of vets who've been there done that. I don't think Frank has the wherewithal to handle this crew.
Replace Kobe with LeBron, Mike Davis with Frank Vogel |
There's a reason why fans always have problems with rotations. It's because it's the easiest part of basketball to criticize. And every fan has their own personal favorite.
Most fans have a hard time criticizing a playbook because playbooks are complicated. They also have a hard time judging how a coach runs the team when they're not on the court because they don't see it.
Frank is already proven he can win a championship with LBJ. He has also proven that he knows how to run of a defense. I just don't agree with your analysis. |
I'm a proverbial armchair head coach. I know nothing about the real thing. I'm also not the only fan in the forum not pleased with Frank's lineups and rotations. Others are on the bus.
I know he won a ship with Bron. I don't discount that. This is a new day, roster and concern. It's do or die, ship or bust. I don't think Frank can handle it. I hope I'm wrong.
Hell, I've posted this before and ended the post with I hope I'm wrong. If Frank succeeds we succeed. |
I'm just a fan too, so no digs at you, just think Frank is the best coach we have had since Phil and it's way too late to change gears now |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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This dude literally just played Rondo and Westbrook together |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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scout_0 wrote: | This dude literally just played Rondo and Westbrook together |
There was a narrative two years ago you can’t play Bron and Rondo together.
Give it time, Westbrook is still figuring out his spots and how aggressive to be. |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Get your f'king act together, Frank. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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Lonzo-Lite Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 5085
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Frank got outcoached bad. Kerr made all the right adjustments, going to zone, getting his guys to attack the paint and get open 3s.
Frank also had really questionable lineups. Not a fan of the Rondo, Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Dwight lineup. _________________ Tacos |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Nash Vegas Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 7239
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Vogel should’ve played Westbrook and Bradley, get it? (Bradley Beal)
Instead he kept playing Westbrook and Rondo together, non-shooting, ball dominant players in the backcourt together. Smh. _________________ |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11597
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Pelinka gave him Westbrick. What did you guys expect Vogel to do?
Ok, before making the trade for Westbrick, there was a plan and a vision of what a dominating game for the Lakers would look like with Westbrick and Lebron. Tell me that plan or vision!!! Tell. Me. How. Do. We. Dominate. Games. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6564
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Just rewatched the game…
Those end of the quarter line up killed Vogel tonight. AD/Anthony/Monk/Westbrook/Rondo
Killed our lead both at the end 1st and 3rd quarter… They need to change Lebron’s subbing pattern. He dont need to be starting the 2nd and 4th quarter with Westbrook on the team. Rondo/Westbrook combo has been a failure so far.
I like what I saw from the team tonight. They are a working progress and will probably lose a lot to playoff teams first half of the season. |
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twisted Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Posts: 1265
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:09 am Post subject: |
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What is this Rondo WB nonsense? Didnt he see this crap fail in the preseason? _________________ “God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to have them together.” – Vanessa Bryant |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8447
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:34 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | IMO Vogel is the weak link. He has the personnel. I don't think he'll utilize it correctly. I've never liked his lineups or rotations.
Call me a pessimist, I expect trouble between Frank and Bron. This is it. Pelinka built a 1 year, do or die, championship or bust roster. It's full of vets who've been there done that. I don't think Frank has the wherewithal to handle this crew.
Replace Kobe with LeBron, Mike Davis with Frank Vogel |
It'll be kinda interesting because the Lakers just gave him an extension. If they got rid of Frank, who would they replace him with? |
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Nash Vegas Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 7239
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Lakers played the Warriors twice during pre-season, both losses. You would think Vogel would’ve learned something from those 2 games. Apparently not. _________________ |
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blackmamba08 Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015 Posts: 2607 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Don't blame him at all for anything. He is not responsible for RW trade. Pelinka and Lebron are. Franck didn't bring him and I am sure didn't ask for him. I think Vogel is trying to make everyone happy but he will be one to pay the price. And it can be quite soon. He will be fired because of Westbrook and Lebron buddy buddy thing. I kind of feel for Vogel because he is good coach on wrong place. I am on his side right now. |
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mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32025
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Why would we bring in Rondo to play with WB when Lebron rests? Shouldn’t that be WB’s time to get the ball and play make? We got killed in the first half with it, so Frank decided to do it again in the second half? And please limit Melo and DJ. Melo is a disaster on defense and DJ looks toasty. |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:24 am Post subject: |
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blackmamba08 wrote: | Don't blame him at all for anything. He is not responsible for RW trade. Pelinka and Lebron are. Franck didn't bring him and I am sure didn't ask for him. I think Vogel is trying to make everyone happy but he will be one to pay the price. And it can be quite soon. He will be fired because of Westbrook and Lebron buddy buddy thing. I kind of feel for Vogel because he is good coach on wrong place. I am on his side right now. |
Sure never blame him for anything
Fact is he is a terrible coach. Since last years play when the suns blew us out by 30-40 points he should of been fired.
Russ will have a very hard time playing in this terrible offense. No ball movement, no body movement off the ball just straight up pick and roll with everyone standing around or Lebron or AD IsO. That will not beat a good offensive system. Yes the spurs had great star power but their offense was ALWAYS on point as far as ball movement and motion.
You are basically trading bad shots (even if it's LeBron or Davis shooting a post fade away it's a bad shot) the other team has body movement and ball movement that by the time a shot goes up they have created an easy shot.
There is a reason why coaches are so important to win.
We didn't hire an offensive coordinator why? he's afraid we might fire him.
I won't even bring up the Westbrook-Rondo pairing...
I already had a poster say
"They said the same thing about lebron-rondo" which was laughable. |
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roger_federer Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2020 Posts: 3102
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:48 am Post subject: |
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I knew this is coming. Bring names that don't fit and blame it on the coach...
Westvrick,melo, monk, DJ, Rondo all are bad defenders. How do u play them? |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I've said it before. Vogel has been given a challenging situation. He is a defensive coach but most of the acquisitions are brought in for offense. He is a poor offensive coach yet this team brought in Westbrook to pair with LBJ and hope Vogel can figure something out.
As a result, the team can't put up to the defensive standard that Vogel wish them to have and Vogel fails to unleash the offensive talent this team could accomplish.
I don't know why Pelinka is doing this to Vogel. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Had control of the game, until the late 3rd. We played well until that point. Need to figure out that 2nd unit led by Westbrook. I am not opposed to Rondo/Westbrook. I think what did us in that stretch was the defense and some missed layups by Westbrook. That Melo/Monk/Westbrook/Rondo unit just didn't have defense.
Got to get Frank some defenders. I like the Bradley move a lot. Bazemore looks solid. If Ellington can come in and give us some 3nD, now your 2nd unit has some more options.
Not really a fan of playing Melo unless his D improves. We need a second unit that defends. Our 2nd unit did horrendous on D. Melo/Monk/Westbrook/Rondo, those guys just don't blend in on D. That is my concern. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Porous defense Frank! Fix it |
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blackmamba08 Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015 Posts: 2607 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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scout_0 wrote: | blackmamba08 wrote: | Don't blame him at all for anything. He is not responsible for RW trade. Pelinka and Lebron are. Franck didn't bring him and I am sure didn't ask for him. I think Vogel is trying to make everyone happy but he will be one to pay the price. And it can be quite soon. He will be fired because of Westbrook and Lebron buddy buddy thing. I kind of feel for Vogel because he is good coach on wrong place. I am on his side right now. |
Sure never blame him for anything
Fact is he is a terrible coach. Since last years play when the suns blew us out by 30-40 points he should of been fired.
Russ will have a very hard time playing in this terrible offense. No ball movement, no body movement off the ball just straight up pick and roll with everyone standing around or Lebron or AD IsO. That will not beat a good offensive system. Yes the spurs had great star power but their offense was ALWAYS on point as far as ball movement and motion.
You are basically trading bad shots (even if it's LeBron or Davis shooting a post fade away it's a bad shot) the other team has body movement and ball movement that by the time a shot goes up they have created an easy shot.
There is a reason why coaches are so important to win.
We didn't hire an offensive coordinator why? he's afraid we might fire him.
I won't even bring up the Westbrook-Rondo pairing...
I already had a poster say
"They said the same thing about lebron-rondo" which was laughable. |
Completely wrong point. And yes I will defend Vogel because he is in this situation where Pelinka and Bron gave him LeBron's buddys to coach who are not coachable. Or better to say awful defenders and low IQ guys.
Vogel is basically forced to use Westbrook even if he knows it will not work.
Because what people would say if Westbrook is not playing? Is Bron happy with his buddy on the bench? What Melo will say if he is not playing?
Extremely difficult situation for Vogel. I just hope he will find some solution. If not he will be fired for other people mistakes.
I am sure if he can choose he would take Caruso over Westbrook 24/7.
And yes he is far from terrible coach. I would say he is actually really good one.
Tell me who would you take to coach this team assembled like this? I am dying to hear. |
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Ksig Star Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 2086
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Vogel is inept when it comes to scheming an offensive system so what do we do? Give him the worst volume shooting PG to space out the floor with our two stars who arent exactly sharpshooters either.
Vogels strength lies in defensive scheming so what do we do? Give him a team filled with short 6 foot guards who have shown to be inept on defense for their entire careers (except Bazemore) and trade away all the parts that made us the #1 defense in the league. This season you'll see that you cant just plug anyone into his system and make it work, as Trez shouldve shown us last year.
I expect we'll be very active near the mid season trade deadline. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Frank got outcoached bad. Kerr made all the right adjustments, going to zone, getting his guys to attack the paint and get open 3s.
Frank also had really questionable lineups. Not a fan of the Rondo, Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Dwight lineup. |
While I can’t disagree, if you asked 100 basketball fans which coach they would rather have, 99 would pick Kerr. With the 1 being a Laker fan. Kerr has proven his championship mettle, he should out coach Vogel. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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