Joined: 09 Apr 2012 Posts: 1938 Location: Southern California
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:00 am Post subject:
Guy is one of top 3-4 players in the NBA. Young. And a two way stud. The trade was fair. They gave up one very player IMO in Ingram, who is in the last year of his rookie deal. Hart is filler. Ball is mediocre. We can stop pretending ball will be anything special in the NBA. The 4th pick was going to be what, Darius garland or another project years away? We don’t know how good the future picks/swap will or will not be.
Clippers traded 5 picks and two swaps, an excellent young guard years away from free agency and a quality small forward for Paul George. Who isn’t in AD’s league as a player.
That’s a rip off deal. I don’t care if it’s a 2-1 with Leonard. In a vacuum the George deal is absurd. _________________ 17 time World Champions
AD's post up numbers in comparison to some of the other most frequent and established post players in the league and considered "elite" or all-star level bigs.
Post ups
Embiid 35% frequency 1.06 points per possession
AD 25% frequency 0.96 PPP
Love 23% frequency 0.94 PPP
Towns 19% frequency 0.89 PPP
Jokic 22% frequency 0.86 PPP
Aldridge 30% frequency 0.84 PPP
Only Embiid is better of the star bigmen. I think AD could become even better than Joel in post ups, if he stopped fading away on some of his post up jumpers and used his footwork to get closer to the basket.
Yesterday was a great example of how AD can abuse you in the post ups, and you can't really do anything about it unless you want to send 2-3 guys on him. He was using his footwork to get closer to the basket instead of a weak fadeaway, on the post ups. Coaching staff needs to challenge AD to become better than Embiid. Show him this stat. AD has the foorwork to catch the ball in the post and then get even closer to the basket. Sometimes he just settles for that initial catch and then fade. That is not what we want from him in the post.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
^
Some are Ingram fans who think he has proven to become a superstar or on his way and think we were better off keeping him and adding a guy like D'Angelo Russell on the super max. I don't know about that, because while no doubt Ingram has improved on offense, some of what he was doing he was already doing right before he had those clots. Remember his January/Feb numbers last season? He was already starting to reach that 20-25 points a night, consistent scoring threat, level. He has become an all-star caliber player. Some people don't like seeing that go away, but look at what the Lakers got in return - a guy that is so much better than Ingram it's not even a question, really. Defense, offense. AD is much better and is helping the team get wins, something the crew from last year was not doing and again isn't doing in New Orleans. Some people believe it's better to have numbers over quality. 2 all-star caliber players like Ingram and DLO with Lebron vs 2 superstars who compliment each other in AD/LBJ and quality role players. In the history of basketball though, 2 superstars peaking together where one superstar is a guard and the other is a big or wing that dominates defense and inside, with the right role players has shown to win again and again.
Having 2 all-star caliber young guys and a superstar and a team not with te same discipline-chemistry and impact, I don't know if you've seen those teams be as good. DLO and Ingram are these guys really as good when their usage drops and they have to share with Lebron? IDK. I think they have impact as high usage guys.
We had to give up assets and take a chance that AD was legit. I guess we probably had scouted him extensively and knew he was capable to dominate on both ends and change the way the game is played. The way we signed guys seems to be like a team that knew they were going to set everything up around AD and Lebron. It was a good plan, IMO. I don't think this is luck or a fluke. I think Rob Pelinka had this plan to get these guys the best possible situation to win ball games and believed the 2 of them together was going to be a major load.
I think most Laker fans liked BI a lot and still like him now. You're right he was showing that he reached another level right before the clot. The biggest leap he's made with NO is his 3pt shot. It seemed like he refused to even attempt them and now he's taking 5.4 and making 42%. I'll always root for BI and will follow his career. But even if he reaches his absolute maximum potential, he still won't have the impact of a freak of nature like AD. There's just no scenario I can think of where we'll look back and say it was a bad trade, other than injuries (*knockonwood*). The chemistry between Lebron and AD is great enough to overcome any combination of our young players that were traded away.
I was a loud critic of the FO during the offseason up until the point that Kawhi made his decision. And then I was pleasantly surprised with how well Rob recovered. Some people criticized the signings, but even at the time I was thinking "wow Rob did a great job kicking into plan B". He really did have a full contingency plan in place for whatever Kawhi decided. His experience as an agent lends to his ability to communicate with players and their agents. If he's good enough to earn Kobe's blessings then he's good enough for me.
Was looking at Harden once you posted this.
His O rating is 122. Amazing scoring and O rating is great.
D rating is 108.
Net difference rating is +14.
AD's O rating is 120.
His D rating is 98.
Net difference rating is 22.
I think the 2-way impact of AD is greater than any other player in the league. Only Giannis IMO is on his level in this regard. 117 on O rating, 95 on D. +23.
To me I take AD, Giannis, over Harden any day of the week. If AD and Giannis stopped caring about D, or focused on O like Harden does, they would have even better numbers than Harden.
AD's post up numbers in comparison to some of the other most frequent and established post players in the league and considered "elite" or all-star level bigs.
Post ups
Embiid 35% frequency 1.06 points per possession
AD 25% frequency 0.96 PPP
Love 23% frequency 0.94 PPP
Towns 19% frequency 0.89 PPP
Jokic 22% frequency 0.86 PPP
Aldridge 30% frequency 0.84 PPP
Only Embiid is better of the star bigmen. I think AD could become even better than Joel in post ups, if he stopped fading away on some of his post up jumpers and used his footwork to get closer to the basket.
Yesterday was a great example of how AD can abuse you in the post ups, and you can't really do anything about it unless you want to send 2-3 guys on him. He was using his footwork to get closer to the basket instead of a weak fadeaway, on the post ups. Coaching staff needs to challenge AD to become better than Embiid. Show him this stat. AD has the foorwork to catch the ball in the post and then get even closer to the basket. Sometimes he just settles for that initial catch and then fade. That is not what we want from him in the post.
That spin move in the post last night where he laid it in from behind the backboard. Just beautiful. I'm getting a little annoyed with the fadeaways too
Guy is one of top 3-4 players in the NBA. Young. And a two way stud. The trade was fair. They gave up one very player IMO in Ingram, who is in the last year of his rookie deal. Hart is filler. Ball is mediocre. We can stop pretending ball will be anything special in the NBA. The 4th pick was going to be what, Darius garland or another project years away? We don’t know how good the future picks/swap will or will not be.
Clippers traded 5 picks and two swaps, an excellent young guard years away from free agency and a quality small forward for Paul George. Who isn’t in AD’s league as a player.
That’s a rip off deal. I don’t care if it’s a 2-1 with Leonard. In a vacuum the George deal is absurd.
But the world isn’t a vacuum. They don’t do that deal with no inclusion of Kawhi so the deal was all those picks plus the cap space to sign Kawhi.
Also, the trade for AD needn’t be “fair”. Who cares if we overpaid? We got a stud. I’d rather overpay for AD then not have him at all.
I'm getting a little annoyed with the fadeaways too
Said after opening game of the season in loss to Clips. It is important we establish and develop AD as a post player during RS to get ready for the playoffs. When they put smalls on him, guys like Paul George, Kawhi or even MH. AD will not be able to just drive by them from outside or pull up over them like a guard, the way he does against many other players. Against the best defenses, AD will need to get some looks off the ball in the paint, through set ups from elite passers like Rondo and LBJ, but also through his own post ups. He can not be a Garnett for this team. No way. This is the only way we can become a dominant championship team, unbeatable in the playoffs. Because teams know how to defend everything else. However once you show them you can beat them that way as well, they usually have no answer but to send 2-3 players on you, and that just opens up the game for the rest of the team.
There's a lot of little things that AD does that I wish he would do on a consistent basis. It would make him the most dominant post player in the league, surpassing Embiid. Yesterday he did it. But then you see a game where he shoots 3-5 fades and you go I love the three pointers. I love the rolls to the basket. I love the coast to coast dribbling. The post moves where he gets the ball deep and takes a shot, I love. The only thing I want to eliminate from his game are the fadeaways in the post and when he begins to isolate from the mid-range and then settles for jumpshot. Those are not his strengths.
I'm nitpicking, but it will make a huge difference in the playoffs IMO.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:30 am Post subject:
Horry on AD: He's a heat-seeking missile when it comes to playing defense.
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
The only thing I want to eliminate from his game are the fadeaways in the post and when he begins to isolate from the mid-range and then settles for jumpshot. Those are not his strengths.
I'm nitpicking, but it will make a huge difference in the playoffs IMO.
+1
I'd like him to get a minicamp with Olajuwon (or [spit, gag] McHale), work on his footwork and replace the fadeaway 17 footers with 4 foot jumphooks and power layups. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
I'm getting a little annoyed with the fadeaways too
Said after opening game of the season in loss to Clips. It is important we establish and develop AD as a post player during RS to get ready for the playoffs. When they put smalls on him, guys like Paul George, Kawhi or even MH. AD will not be able to just drive by them from outside or pull up over them like a guard, the way he does against many other players. Against the best defenses, AD will need to get some looks off the ball in the paint, through set ups from elite passers like Rondo and LBJ, but also through his own post ups. He can not be a Garnett for this team. No way. This is the only way we can become a dominant championship team, unbeatable in the playoffs. Because teams know how to defend everything else. However once you show them you can beat them that way as well, they usually have no answer but to send 2-3 players on you, and that just opens up the game for the rest of the team.
There's a lot of little things that AD does that I wish he would do on a consistent basis. It would make him the most dominant post player in the league, surpassing Embiid. Yesterday he did it. But then you see a game where he shoots 3-5 fades and you go I love the three pointers. I love the rolls to the basket. I love the coast to coast dribbling. The post moves where he gets the ball deep and takes a shot, I love. The only thing I want to eliminate from his game are the fadeaways in the post and when he begins to isolate from the mid-range and then settles for jumpshot. Those are not his strengths.
I'm nitpicking, but it will make a huge difference in the playoffs IMO.
Doubtful it will change, it hasn’t so far in his career. He doesn’t like contact, he never has. That is why he refuses to play center. We need to be happy with what we get from him, and thankfully so far this season that has included good health. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The only thing I want to eliminate from his game are the fadeaways in the post and when he begins to isolate from the mid-range and then settles for jumpshot. Those are not his strengths.
I'm nitpicking, but it will make a huge difference in the playoffs IMO.
+1
I'd like him to get a minicamp with Olajuwon (or [spit, gag] McHale), work on his footwork and replace the fadeaway 17 footers with 4 foot jumphooks and power layups.
The jumper hs been off this far. Don’t worry about it.
23 games in and already 15 minute of defensive plays.. Beast!!
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:43 am Post subject:
lakers4life78 wrote:
Guy is one of top 3-4 players in the NBA. Young. And a two way stud. The trade was fair. They gave up one very player IMO in Ingram, who is in the last year of his rookie deal. Hart is filler. Ball is mediocre. We can stop pretending ball will be anything special in the NBA. The 4th pick was going to be what, Darius garland or another project years away? We don’t know how good the future picks/swap will or will not be.
Clippers traded 5 picks and two swaps, an excellent young guard years away from free agency and a quality small forward for Paul George. Who isn’t in AD’s league as a player.
That’s a rip off deal. I don’t care if it’s a 2-1 with Leonard. In a vacuum the George deal is absurd.
George is in AD’s league as a 2-way player. Ironically, both are solid seconds that couldn’t win as alphas. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
Yeah..5 rings do taste pretty good.
So like Kobe, with Davis, we’re going to have to take the good with the bad.
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
Yeah..5 rings do taste pretty good.
So like Kobe, with Davis, we’re going to have to take the good with the bad.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
The Davis fade away is just something we’re going to have to live with. He’s in game Load Managing. Just like not wanting to play center. Who knows, maybe he’ll start making them on a regular basis. Vogel has already asked him to shoot more threes.
Plus we watch Kobe for years jack up terrible shots while triple teamed with open teammates on the weak side. People ate that (bleep) up!
Yeah..5 rings do taste pretty good.
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
at Bazemore being a little (bleep)
I love the three pointers. I love the rolls to the basket. I love the coast to coast dribbling. The post moves where he gets the ball deep and takes a shot, I love. The only thing I want to eliminate from his game are the fadeaways in the post and when he begins to isolate from the mid-range and then settles for jumpshot. Those are not his strengths.
