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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems the lesson to be learned is that the draft is a total crapshoot. Only after a few years when you see what these guys can do, can you really start to make moves to acquire role players, stars, and middle of the pack guys. It goes both ways, you may have missed out on a 1 or 2 pick only to be able to pick them up for cheap years later (Andrew Bogut, Fultz etc.) Whereas tons of teams missed out on guys like Yokic, Mitchell, Kuzma.. This idea that you have to have a "homegrown" contender for it to mean anything is fantasy. |
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OCWA
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I have two words since it looks like we are desperate for bodies to fill out a roster. Liangelo Ball. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I think this has a large part to due with the type of players they were.
You need a franchise that is built around a single player or two players you can build a long era of playoff + better basketball around.
Were any of those players of that ilk, especially combined?
No.
This is not like we are passing on talent like Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons. These guys as Lakers were not even close to making the all star team. I do not want to talk about what guys may or may not do elsewhere. I am talking as Lakers. With the pressure that comes with playing in LA. None of these guys were even on Andrew Bynum level. If we had a guy like Bynum in any of these picks, you see him locked up on potential alone. Because big Bynum was a monster talent.
These guys are just not that talented to be worth spending so much capspace on when you do not have the core that will give you a playoff team (and better) in place. Now with LBJ/AD/Kuzma we have a big 3 core in place. Kyle is 23, AD is 26. Lebron is 35, but in 2 years we need to get a guy who can be something significant. Until then at least we have a core trio who will be in the playoffs each year. NOW we can start seeing who is worth keeping around these guys.
I do wish we kept more assets from the AD trade. It really gutted us. I do not know what the Lakers think they can do. Perhaps because they have shown with Kuzma Hart etc they can draft better late than they do in the lottery, that they think they can buy some 1st round picks - late 1st rounders from teams and draft well in the 2nd round. It is easier to find role player talent, talented 2-way role players, in the late 1st round and early 2nd than it is to get the lottery talents to become as good as LBJ/AD. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | Kuzma might end up better than Lonzo and BI. D'Angelo will likely always be a tick ahead of Kuzma and Randle seems to have likely hit his peak (or close to it.
My point: if Kuzma keeps working, he could have been the correct pick if you had just one.
This thread makes me want to sign D'lo (and Randle) back. |
I don't see how.. They're already better players now and they're younger, and improving just like him. |
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bluehill
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 890
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | We didn't fail at rebuilding with youth, we never gave it a chance. We were middle of the road with Kobe, then in 2017 we shook up front office, then we had 1 calm year in 2017/2018, and even still, you didn't really rebuild because you signed a bunch of 1 yr dudes to save cap space for big game hunting. |
This is an overlooked point IMO. Jim/Mitch tried the FA strategy, switched to rebuild and then Magic/Rob went back to the FA strategy. There were only two years between Kobe and LeBron where it was just the young guys playing on their own. Those guys are still learning how to play in the NBA and growing athletically.
Kawhi, Giannis, Steph, Klay didn't become all-stars until their 4th and 5th years in the league. DLo made it in his 4th year and we'll see about BI and Lonzo. |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Lakers drafted 13 players since 2014.
-Julius Randle
-Jordan Clarkson
-D’Angelo Russell
-Larry Nance Jr.
-Anthony Brown
-Brandon Ingram
-Ivica Zubac
-Lonzo Ball
-Kyle Kuzma
-Josh Hart
-Moe Wagner
-Svi Mykhailiuk
-Isaac Bonga
Pretty staggering that out of all of them:
1. only JC got an extension (nearly 50m over 4 years).
2. Kuz likely only one who will stay (Bonga/Wags possibly gone).
If this was our Process, the turnover is staggering. |
At least, there isn't an MVP-level franchise player in the bunch that we have lost. And now we have two of those.
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-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54571
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Lakers drafted 13 players since 2014.
-Julius Randle
-Jordan Clarkson
-D’Angelo Russell
-Larry Nance Jr.
-Anthony Brown
-Brandon Ingram
-Ivica Zubac
-Lonzo Ball
-Kyle Kuzma
-Josh Hart
-Moe Wagner
-Svi Mykhailiuk
-Isaac Bonga
Pretty staggering that out of all of them:
1. only JC got an extension (nearly 50m over 4 years).
2. Kuz likely only one who will stay (Bonga/Wags possibly gone).
If this was our Process, the turnover is staggering. |
At least, there isn't an MVP-level franchise player in the bunch that we have lost. And now we have two of those. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11758
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Don't get why people say we have good scouts lead by Jesse Buss. None of them made all star btw.
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Lakers drafted 13 players since 2014.
-Julius Randle
-Jordan Clarkson
-D’Angelo Russell
-Larry Nance Jr.
-Anthony Brown
-Brandon Ingram
-Ivica Zubac
-Lonzo Ball
-Kyle Kuzma
-Josh Hart
-Moe Wagner
-Svi Mykhailiuk
-Isaac Bonga
Pretty staggering that out of all of them:
1. only JC got an extension (nearly 50m over 4 years).
2. Kuz likely only one who will stay (Bonga/Wags possibly gone).
If this was our Process, the turnover is staggering. |
At least, there isn't an MVP-level franchise player in the bunch that we have lost. And now we have two of those. |
And another team that is considered to have a pretty good FO has lost two of them  |
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Don't get why people say we have good scouts lead by Jesse Buss. None of them made all star btw. |
I wouldn’t say it was drafting as it was lack of patience and player development |
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WindyCityLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1537
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| You draft a player and hopes he pans out. The worst thing you can do is overpay a draft pick because you drafted him. How many of those first round draft picks did Elgin Baylor resign with the clippers. Some were decent players but were looking for more than they were worth. Clarkson was an overpay and no way I would give Nance what he got. We will see what the league thinks of Zu, Randle and Russell this offseason. |
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LaxT
Star Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 2536
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Lakers drafted 13 players since 2014.
-Julius Randle
-Jordan Clarkson
-D’Angelo Russell
-Larry Nance Jr.
-Anthony Brown
-Brandon Ingram
-Ivica Zubac
-Lonzo Ball
-Kyle Kuzma
-Josh Hart
-Moe Wagner
-Svi Mykhailiuk
-Isaac Bonga
Pretty staggering that out of all of them:
1. only JC got an extension (nearly 50m over 4 years).
2. Kuz likely only one who will stay (Bonga/Wags possibly gone).
If this was our Process, the turnover is staggering. |
I don't think lack of extension is a problem. Losing/trading for nothing is.
Randle/Bryant/Zu/Svi were gone for nothing. Russell/Clarkson/Nance were traded for players who are gone too.
The Johnson/Pelinka regime under-appreciate draft assets, especially those drafted by the previous regime.
Future draft picks are gone too in the AD trade. Very limited tools to improve the roster in the next five years. First rounders of the past five years and the next five years are gone.
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New Orleans Pelicans get:
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
No. 4 overall pick in 2019 (De'Andre Hunter)
2021 protected first round pick (Pelicans get 2021 pick if it's top-eight, otherwise unprotected in 2022)
2023 first-round pick (unprotected swap)
2024 first-round pick (unprotected, option to defer to 2025)
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perry731
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't follow the college game. Can anyone tell me what's the difference between Zion and Julius Randle? Their game seems quite similar. What's the hype about Zion then? |
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| perry731 wrote: | | I didn't follow the college game. Can anyone tell me what's the difference between Zion and Julius Randle? Their game seems quite similar. What's the hype about Zion then? |
About 50 lbs and 40” vert and bigger wingspan |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you get a chance to check the years before 2014? |
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Legacy
Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 7054
Location: So. Californ-I-A
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I like all those players minus DLo & Bonga. I won't pretend we suffered a great loss with them off our roster though.
Let's do a quick check.
Which one of them can lead a team to a championship?
How many world class players do we have on our roster now?
Time to move forward folks. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers Drafted 13 Players in Past 5 Years (Only 1 Extension Given) |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Lakers drafted 13 players since 2014.
-Julius Randle
-Jordan Clarkson
-D’Angelo Russell
-Larry Nance Jr.
-Anthony Brown
-Brandon Ingram
-Ivica Zubac
-Lonzo Ball
-Kyle Kuzma
-Josh Hart
-Moe Wagner
-Svi Mykhailiuk
-Isaac Bonga
Pretty staggering that out of all of them:
1. only JC got an extension (nearly 50m over 4 years).
2. Kuz likely only one who will stay (Bonga/Wags possibly gone).
If this was our Process, the turnover is staggering. |
The bottom line is I don't care how the roster is assembled: drafting, trading, free agency are all viable choices.
Keeping picks is not inherently better or worse than trading them. It's all about whether the team makes good decisions.
And once I see what they do with their cap space, I'll be able to evaluate the totality of their decisions up to this point. |
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Fortysixn2
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Yeah. Not a good strategy.
Can’t acquire all your players via FA.
Theres also zero sense of loyalty, which could come back to haunt us too. |
Well, if there were any really good players in there we probably would have kept them lol. Randle and DLO are average NBA players, rest are either are TBD or scrubs. We did well in getting some ok guys later in the the draft, but our top picks weren’t really meaningful. |
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Fortysixn2
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Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| socalsp3 wrote: | | perry731 wrote: | | I didn't follow the college game. Can anyone tell me what's the difference between Zion and Julius Randle? Their game seems quite similar. What's the hype about Zion then? |
About 50 lbs and 40” vert and bigger wingspan |
Zion is a good and willing defender, Randle is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Zion is also much more Explosive than JR. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | You draft a player and hopes he pans out. The worst thing you can do is overpay a draft pick because you drafted him. How many of those first round draft picks did Elgin Baylor resign with the clippers. Some were decent players but were looking for more than they were worth. Clarkson was an overpay and no way I would give Nance what he got. We will see what the league thinks of Zu, Randle and Russell this offseason. |
In the Baylor/Sterling years, the Clips had the option to resign Mo Taylor, their draftee who got a lot of minutes over 3 years. They declined to extend him after the first 3. Actually a heady move.
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Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| On the bright side the team didn’t draft Jahlil Okafor which upset a lot of people back in 2015. |
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Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | 1999-2000 Lakers (1st of 3peat)
Top 9 players by minutes
Shaq (free agent), Kobe (trade), Rice (trade), Harper (free agent), Green (trade), Fisher (draft), Horry (trade), Lue (draft), Fox (free agent) |
Kobe (draft), Pau (trade), Bynum (draft), Lamar (trade), Artest (free agent)
Garnett (trade), Pierce (draft), Allen (trade)
Lebron (free agent), Wade (draft), Bosh (S&T)
KD (free agent, everyone else drafted)
The only real dominant (draft) champs in the modern era are the Spurs and Warriors. While you'd like your young guys to develop into a championship team, you have to figure out who is worth keeping, and get assets for the guys who are not worth paying. In hindsight, I think Julius was our only real blunder. |
The Spurs horribly mismanaged the entire situation with Kawhi and traded him away only to watch him win a championship. So even they have given a valuable player away and they might never find another player like that for several decades. And as you mentioned, they are one of the two success stories.
Last edited by Steve007 on Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | It seems the lesson to be learned is that the draft is a total crapshoot. Only after a few years when you see what these guys can do, can you really start to make moves to acquire role players, stars, and middle of the pack guys. It goes both ways, you may have missed out on a 1 or 2 pick only to be able to pick them up for cheap years later (Andrew Bogut, Fultz etc.) Whereas tons of teams missed out on guys like Yokic, Mitchell, Kuzma.. This idea that you have to have a "homegrown" contender for it to mean anything is fantasy. |
One of the good things about trading Lonzo now is he has some value due to his youth and potential, and personally I’m really skeptical about him. He keeps getting injured and has a long way to go to be a star in the league. It reminds me of when the team overpaid to get Kwame Brown because of his “potential.”
Maybe LaVar Ball thinks of Lonzo as a star but lol at that. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | Best part of our organization is the scouting department yet here we sit. |
It's gotta be frustrating amassing all these players from a scouting department point of view only to see them traded away year after year. |
Philadelphia made 27 draft choices in the 5 drafts since they started their process (2014 thru 2018).
Only Korkomaz, Bolden, Simmons, and Embiid are on the team now. Embiid is the only one who received an extension, and he's one of the 2 best big men in the game.
Covington and McConnell (undrafted finds) make it 5 for 29 if you will, but considering the other all star doesn't fit with their big 4 (and 2 others barely play), the total could be 2 for 29 by the trade deadline.
Edit:
I forgot Zhaire Smith, he was injured and spent most of the year in the G-League. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | On the bright side the team didn’t draft Jahlil Okafor which upset a lot of people back in 2015. |
Oh man. He's playing on a minimum contract again next year while DLO is looking for a 18-25m/year extension after making the all star game ("in the East," where Jah was also  ). We would not have been able to dump Moz with Jah.
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