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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark10 45 wrote: | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5 reach at the combine , 6'11.75 ws
Demar Derozen has played equal minutes at SF & PF the last 2 seasons (listed as a PF on basketball-reference.com) - 8'6.5 reach , 6'9 ws
Kawhi 8'10, 7'3 ws
Jimmy Butler 8'5.5, 6'7.5 ws
Lebron 8'9 reach, 7'0 ws
Middleton 8'7 , 6'10.75 ws
Klay Thompson guards a lot of SFs 8'7.5 , 6'9 ws
Tobias Harris (plays a lot of PF too) 8'7.5, 6'11 ws
Gordon Hayward 8'7, 6'7.75 ws
Harrison Barnes 8'6, 6'11.25
Brandon Ingram 9'1.5, 7'3 ws
TJ Warren 8'8, 6'10.25 ws
OG Annunoby 8'11, 7'2 ws, played a solid amount of PF
Kelly Oubre Jr 8'6.5, 7'2 ws
Wiggins 8'11, 7'0 ws
Durant played mostly the 4 this year.
Tatum played half of his minutes at the 4, he's 8'10 7'0 |
Thank you. Those "short" standing reaches aren't enough to keep them off the floor.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5 reach at the combine , 6'11.75 ws
Demar Derozen has played equal minutes at SF & PF the last 2 seasons (listed as a PF on basketball-reference.com) - 8'6.5 reach , 6'9 ws
Kawhi 8'10, 7'3 ws
Jimmy Butler 8'5.5, 6'7.5 ws
Lebron 8'9 reach, 7'0 ws
Middleton 8'7 , 6'10.75 ws
Klay Thompson guards a lot of SFs 8'7.5 , 6'9 ws
Tobias Harris (plays a lot of PF too) 8'7.5, 6'11 ws
Gordon Hayward 8'7, 6'7.75 ws
Harrison Barnes 8'6, 6'11.25
Brandon Ingram 9'1.5, 7'3 ws
TJ Warren 8'8, 6'10.25 ws
OG Annunoby 8'11, 7'2 ws, played a solid amount of PF
Kelly Oubre Jr 8'6.5, 7'2 ws
Wiggins 8'11, 7'0 ws
Durant played mostly the 4 this year.
Tatum played half of his minutes at the 4, he's 8'10 7'0 |
Thank you. Those "short" standing reaches aren't enough to keep them off the floor. |
So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Yes. He has the strength to hold the position. Hell, that's where Iowa St. placed him in college.
He's a wing in a 1/2 body with outlier strength/arms/hands. Positional versatility was always part of the package.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Yes. He has the strength to hold the position. Hell, that's where Iowa St. placed him in college.
He's a wing in a 1/2 body with outlier strength/arms/hands. Positional versatility was always part of the package. |
We will have to agree to disagree. 40 years, sure. 6'3" Adrian Dantley was a great SF. I just don't see it working.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Yes. He has the strength to hold the position. Hell, that's where Iowa St. placed him in college.
He's a wing in a 1/2 body with outlier strength/arms/hands. Positional versatility was always part of the package. |
We will have to agree to disagree. 40 years, sure. 6'3" Adrian Dantley was a great SF. I just don't see it working. |
I legitimately listed 3s that had the same standing reach or less. Mark, listed more star types, including Gordon Hayward and Khris Middleton.
But man there's tons more to this than a whopping 2"+ of standing reach to "meet the average of the players that actually measured at PreDraft combines."
Yeah, we'll disagree alright, especially when THT has the elite wingspan at the position and the weight to match up in terms of strength.
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DeeAgeaux
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Height and vision also matters. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| DeeAgeaux wrote: | | Height and vision also matters. |
Really. When LAL played PHX and basically had the small backcourt of KCP, Caruso, and DS around AD and LBJ for a win in the playoffs to close the game, height didn't matter.
What did?
Being decisive about rotations and defensive team speed in the halfcourt.
Awesome closing lineup. Wish they played it more.
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epic_
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | DeeAgeaux wrote: | | Height and vision also matters. |
Really. When LAL played PHX and basically had the small backcourt of KCP, Caruso, and DS around AD and LBJ for a win in the playoffs to close the game, height didn't matter.
What did?
Being decisive about rotations and defensive team speed in the halfcourt.
Awesome closing lineup. Wish they played it more. |
Only played 13 mins together in 2 games but that lineup was awesome on defense. 88 drtg and +29.4 net rtg.
But their starting lineup was good too. +21.8 net for James, AD, Drum, KCP and DS. In 42 mins in 3 games.
Wish AD and KCP and Alex were all healthy.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | DeeAgeaux wrote: | | Height and vision also matters. |
Really. When LAL played PHX and basically had the small backcourt of KCP, Caruso, and DS around AD and LBJ for a win in the playoffs to close the game, height didn't matter.
What did?
Being decisive about rotations and defensive team speed in the halfcourt.
Awesome closing lineup. Wish they played it more. |
Only played 13 mins together in 2 games but that lineup was awesome on defense. 88 drtg and +29.4 net rtg.
But their starting lineup was good too. +21.8 net for James, AD, Drum, KCP and DS. In 42 mins in 3 games.
Wish AD and KCP and Alex were all healthy. |
PHX isn't that big of a team, but it kind of kills the idea of height being so effective and producing results, doesn't it?
Of course, the scheme is different if it's the Clippers, but sure, I'll take THT with a chance to jam Kawhi off the dribble and be physical instead of Kuzma, who can't do either, but is taller.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:24 am Post subject: |
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^ I'd use it more situationally, but the Lakers have a lot of guys 6'5 and under right now who deserve playing time, so getting THT burn as a nominal SF in 3-guard lineups makes sense.
I also like the idea of THT getting some easier corner three opportunities playing the wing to build his confidence in games.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ^ I'd use it more situationally, but the Lakers have a lot of guys 6'5 and under right now who deserve playing time, so getting THT burn as a nominal SF in 3-guard lineups makes sense.
I also like the idea of THT getting some easier corner three opportunities playing the wing to build his confidence in games. |
THT has the wingspan and the built to play taller than his height. He should get some burn anywhere on 1-3 position. I agree about those corner 3. It’s a high percentage shots than the other 3 ball that he normally takes. |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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If the question is would THT be able to give useful minutes at 3, then the answer is yes.
If the question is would 3 be THT's best position, then I don't quite see that, I think there are more 2's in the league that he can guard and in the future possibly even shut down than there are 3's. |
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GameCock-MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Yes. He has the strength to hold the position. Hell, that's where Iowa St. placed him in college.
He's a wing in a 1/2 body with outlier strength/arms/hands. Positional versatility was always part of the package. |
Respectfully disagree.
Never, I mean NEVER, put a player at positional disadvantage at 1 end of the court hoping or anticipating the opposition helps you by adjustment, not scheme.
THT would have a minimal speed advantage at the 3 but would give up height and length vs more athletic opponents - advantage: Defense.
THT would give up height and weight on defense while defending taller, potentially, more athletic Wings. We'd have to depend on the opposition going small ball to match up but if they didn't, they'd have a zero-sum-gain at that position.
I think this is why we made so many mistakes this past offseason. Montrezl is a perfect example. Gasol is another. Trying to put square pegs in round holes.
Don't waste THT's advantages at the 1/2 on both ends.
Offense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed.
Defense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed and athleticism.
THT would win on both ends as a 1/2. That can't be said about the 3. If you have to squint to see the fit, it doesn't actually fit.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| GameCock-MD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | So Mike - would you give THT significant minutes at SF?
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Yes. He has the strength to hold the position. Hell, that's where Iowa St. placed him in college.
He's a wing in a 1/2 body with outlier strength/arms/hands. Positional versatility was always part of the package. |
Respectfully disagree.
Never, I mean NEVER, put a player at positional disadvantage at 1 end of the court hoping or anticipating the opposition helps you by adjustment, not scheme.
THT would have a minimal speed advantage at the 3 but would give up height and length vs more athletic opponents - advantage: Defense.
THT would give up height and weight on defense while defending taller, potentially, more athletic Wings. We'd have to depend on the opposition going small ball to match up but if they didn't, they'd have a zero-sum-gain at that position.
I think this is why we made so many mistakes this past offseason. Montrezl is a perfect example. Gasol is another. Trying to put square pegs in round holes.
Don't waste THT's advantages at the 1/2 on both ends.
Offense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed.
Defense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed and athleticism.
THT would win on both ends as a 1/2. That can't be said about the 3. If you have to squint to see the fit, it doesn't actually fit. |
So, once again, this is about context. The 3 guard lineup didn't get killed vs. PHX. Phoenix has a ton of wings too, ya know.
Team defensive scheme is dependent on a lot of things, but I chuckle at the idea that it means "Oh THT HAS to defend Kawhi." No he doesn't. But can he absolutely play 3 on a positive lineup on this Laker team? Absolutely.
I'm just more willing to place THT there, because really, what's KCP going to do? Get outquicked, outsized, and outmuscled? At least give me a guy that can compete on some level against elite wings.
Really, this isn't different from Danny Green or even Wesley Matthews, but people are really caught up in the height thing when Danny Green has an 8'7" standing reach and Wesley Matthews doesn't exactly have a 7'1" wingspan either with giant hands like THT.
| Quote: | | Montrezl is a perfect example. Gasol is another. Trying to put square pegs in round holes. |
You do understand how much positional versatility there is at wing, vs a big, right? Gasol was aged but perfectly playable in short minutes. He did his exact job well, during the playoffs and the regular season, but people can't see past "I need rim protection" even when the Lakers were positive on the floor with Gasol there.
| Quote: |
Don't waste THT's advantages at the 1/2 on both ends.
Offense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed.
Defense - he's got good height and excellent length. Comparable speed and athleticism. |
But it's not about THT. It's about maximizing LBJ and AD. You know how many wings have issues defending ball-handlers, generally speaking? Or, should we play Kuzma there instead, where, if he's not making shots, he's an absolute zero threat?
THT is at bare minimum, a rim threat. So, as far as I'm concerned, he's an advantage on offense at 1, 2, or 3, depending on how the rest of the lineup is constructed.
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Nash Vegas
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epic_
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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THT officially an RFA.
Cool 😁
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Watch Morey try to get cute and offer poison pill contract, then we ask for Ben Simmons in return |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Watch Morey try to get cute and offer poison pill contract, then we ask for Ben Simmons in return |
I’m sure he wants to, but can’t really make a PP offer sheet without cap space and Philly certainly does not have space at the moment.
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Runway8
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Watch Morey try to get cute and offer poison pill contract, then we ask for Ben Simmons in return |
That's how he snatched Linsanity from NY, right? |
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All_Star_Laker
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Trade Kuzma for a draft pick + Space. Sign Lonzo. Start a backcourt of Lonzo/THT/Lebron that can fluidly change positions 1-3. AD + Center round out the starting 5
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Watch Morey try to get cute and offer poison pill contract, then we ask for Ben Simmons in return |
I’m sure he wants to, but can’t really make a PP offer sheet without cap space and Philly certainly does not have space at the moment. |
You're right. Even if the 76ers were able to offer a poison pill and we were able to match, they wouldn't trade Simmons for THT. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| All_Star_Laker wrote: | | Trade Kuzma for a draft pick + Space. Sign Lonzo. Start a backcourt of Lonzo/THT/Lebron that can fluidly change positions 1-3. AD + Center round out the starting 5 |
Personally I don’t think tht is a starter unless we get a functional 5 |
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Laker4lifer4real
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DeeAgeaux
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | DeeAgeaux wrote: | | Height and vision also matters. |
Really. When LAL played PHX and basically had the small backcourt of KCP, Caruso, and DS around AD and LBJ for a win in the playoffs to close the game, height didn't matter.
What did?
Being decisive about rotations and defensive team speed in the halfcourt.
Awesome closing lineup. Wish they played it more. |
Yes, Really
Height isn't the only the thing.
We don't have a league of 7' Big White Stiffs.
We also don't have a league full of very high BB IQ, super skilled and super athletic 5'9" and under guys. I see a lot of those guys at the YMCA.
Height matters. It isn't irrelevant.
Cherry picking some small sample size doesn't change that. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Interesting to see what Lakers do here. It would seem since they refused to put him on the table for Lowry at trade deadline, that he is going to be re-signed. He is probably their most important young player.
Wonder if they view him as someone that can start next year. I certainly think internal growth is one of the best ways to keep contending. Adding vets via trade or FA can help, but sometimes they do not fit. And everyone knows their game. When a young guy comes up in your system, it is the best. Teams do not expect that and you have a new weapon for teams to deal with.
Caruso, THT, KCP. In my humble opinion, these are Vogel guys. We need to keep them. THT has the talent to create his own looks and make plays happen in a way that we could rely on him maybe eventually. I would keep all 3, personally. |
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