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Baron Von Humongous
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 Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Citizen Arcane wrote: | You can say they haven't fared well signing high risk individuals... but name the last time we signed a journeyman player and they blossomed into a star.
No one wanted Rondo, but he was better than Ennis.
If Dwight looked better than Noah during a workout, I'd go with that.
I'm way more annoyed by overpaying KCP or Green than risking a few million on DMC or risking nothing but some temporary bad vibes on Dwight |
And yet Caruso was better than Rondo. |
I like Caruso... unfortunately he'll now probably have to wait his turn behind Bradley.
I just can't believe people think going with the likes of Speights, Gortat, or injured Noah is more likely to yield a better result than a reformed Dwight who has literally nowhere else to go. |
You assume Howard is reformed. He's been reformed each of the last four summers. But surely the 5th time is the charm.
Is Noah currently injured? |
If they had Cousins and McGee... I could see taking Noah over Dwight but Noah hasn't played a full season in over five years.
It's not like they can't cut Dwight and sign Noah if he acts up.
They cannot win a championship with only McGee at center... you can try to play AD there, but you risk alienating him or injuring him when he's hasn't even signed a long term commitment yet.
Even if the odds are below 25% that Dwight shuts up and plays defense... it's still probably higher odds than Noah can last a full season and play better than Dwight.
I get from the fan's perspective that this isn't a likely a feel good story as the protagonist is perhaps irredeemably flawed, but from a probability perspective if an analytics guy modeled the numbers... my bet is that Dwight would produce a better outcome.
People who just dislike the guy... I understand... but the front office already blew it by getting rid of Zubac and Bryant. |
Tell me which frontcourt combo you'd rather see play together most often this upcoming season:
A) Davis and Howard
B) Davis and McGee
C) Davis and Kuzma |
Against a traditional center, Howard... against anyone else I'd take Davis and McGee unless Kuzma has taken a quantum leap forward as a defender or starts shooting the three at closer to 40% |
So Kuzma is out for you. Gotcha.
So you're cool with Lebron running a fair number of PnRs with Howard and McGee while AD spots up behind the 3pt line as a floor-spacer? |
Wouldn't the three be interchangeable with AD getting the majority of minutes? Dwight and JaVale splitting center minutes with Kuzma getting half PF minutes and half SF minutes when LBJ is resting...
Where did I say to put McGee and Howard on at the same time?
Even so, AD's 33% from three was better than Boogie's 27% last season. |
In your scenario (and the scenario that really concerns me as being most likely), AD would be playing most of his minutes next to a conventional roll big - one of McGee or Howard at almost all times - who both provide zero spacing (Cousins is of course a career 33% 3P shooter on volume), which then puts the onus on Davis to provide spacing at PF so the lane isn't clogged up. If Davis is posting at the elbow and Dwight Howard's on the court, what's Dwight doing except standing around near the paint, helping the defense collapse on AD and recover more easily?
And it's not like Howard or McGee are skilled passers or low-post scorers either, so some of the high/low and other two-man game action a twin towers AD/Cousins duo (or even an AD/Noah duo) could've run aren't viable. Basically, AD becomes a version of Pau in 2012-2013 the more he has to share the court with one of McGee or Howard.
But a Kuzma and AD pairing opens up the team's offense for all kinds of movement and cool little wrinkles while I doubt you'd see much of a drop-off on defense with AD at C depending on who's in the backcourt with him (I'm looking forward to a lineup of AD/Kuz/Lebron/Green/Caruso, myself).
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I saw somewhere Dwight was eating 26 candy bars a day at one point, that's enough to drive anyone nuts 
I had forgotten about Jason Kidd as well. Jason Kidd doesn't care who you are or how big you are, he'll punch Dwight in the nuts if he gets out of line. Kidd was one of the ones who vouched for Dwight this week so he won't be pleased if Dwight doesn't follow through on what he promised. |
Ok now it all makes sense. Dwight is gonna be Kidd's Sith apprentice who destroys the locker room and gets Vogel fired. |
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Citizen Arcane
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
In your scenario (and the scenario that really concerns me as being most likely), AD would be playing most of his minutes next to a conventional roll big - one of McGee or Howard at almost all times - who both provide zero spacing (Cousins is of course a career 33% 3P shooter on volume), which then puts the onus on Davis to provide spacing at PF so the lane isn't clogged up. If Davis is posting at the elbow and Dwight Howard's on the court, what's Dwight doing except standing around near the paint, helping the defense collapse on AD and recover more easily?
And it's not like Howard or McGee are skilled passers or low-post scorers either, so some of the high/low and other two-man game action a twin towers AD/Cousins duo (or even an AD/Noah duo) could've run aren't viable. Basically, AD becomes a version of Pau in 2012-2013 the more he has to share the court with one of McGee or Howard.
But a Kuzma and AD pairing opens up the team's offense for all kinds of movement and cool little wrinkles while I doubt you'd see much of a drop-off on defense with AD at C depending on who's in the backcourt with him (I'm looking forward to a lineup of AD/Kuz/Lebron/Green/Caruso, myself). |
I'd also like to see that lineup... and I'm hoping Kuzma can get his three point shooting to 35% which should compensate for any deficiencies on defense.
But having Dwight gives options on defense not available with only McGee and Kuzma.
If Noah was at full health... his superior FT shooting would make me lean towards him as someone you can use in the playoffs and to close a game, but he's been shaky for years. It's odd that everyone universally agrees Melo is done but somehow think Noah has another good year left.
McGee can do nothing to stop anyone like Embiid or Boban... He'd get bullied by Brook. Dwight is undersized but at least should put up more resistance. I'm sure if someone offered you Julius's services for 2 million you'd take it. Dwight should provide a slightly weaker version of Julius with more rim protection. |
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Citizen Arcane
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I saw somewhere Dwight was eating 26 candy bars a day at one point, that's enough to drive anyone nuts
I had forgotten about Jason Kidd as well. Jason Kidd doesn't care who you are or how big you are, he'll punch Dwight in the nuts if he gets out of line. Kidd was one of the ones who vouched for Dwight this week so he won't be pleased if Dwight doesn't follow through on what he promised. |
Ok now it all makes sense. Dwight is gonna be Kidd's Sith apprentice who destroys the locker room and gets Vogel fired. |
Remember Dwight can also be conveniently used as the scapegoat if the Lakers lose... perhaps easing the tension and pressure from LBJ and AD's shoulders.
It's a typical Big Brother/Survivor move... keep a player as a human shield who will take the heat instead of yourself. |
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AD23
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
In your scenario (and the scenario that really concerns me as being most likely), AD would be playing most of his minutes next to a conventional roll big - one of McGee or Howard at almost all times - who both provide zero spacing (Cousins is of course a career 33% 3P shooter on volume), which then puts the onus on Davis to provide spacing at PF so the lane isn't clogged up. If Davis is posting at the elbow and Dwight Howard's on the court, what's Dwight doing except standing around near the paint, helping the defense collapse on AD and recover more easily?
And it's not like Howard or McGee are skilled passers or low-post scorers either, so some of the high/low and other two-man game action a twin towers AD/Cousins duo (or even an AD/Noah duo) could've run aren't viable. Basically, AD becomes a version of Pau in 2012-2013 the more he has to share the court with one of McGee or Howard.
But a Kuzma and AD pairing opens up the team's offense for all kinds of movement and cool little wrinkles while I doubt you'd see much of a drop-off on defense with AD at C depending on who's in the backcourt with him (I'm looking forward to a lineup of AD/Kuz/Lebron/Green/Caruso, myself). |
I'd also like to see that lineup... and I'm hoping Kuzma can get his three point shooting to 35% which should compensate for any deficiencies on defense.
But having Dwight gives options on defense not available with only McGee and Kuzma.
If Noah was at full health... his superior FT shooting would make me lean towards him as someone you can use in the playoffs and to close a game, but he's been shaky for years. It's odd that everyone universally agrees Melo is done but somehow think Noah has another good year left.
McGee can do nothing to stop anyone like Embiid or Boban... He'd get bullied by Brook. Dwight is undersized but at least should put up more resistance. I'm sure if someone offered you Julius's services for 2 million you'd take it. Dwight should provide a slightly weaker version of Julius with more rim protection. |
Those defensive options aren't worth the toxic attitude even if one could make an argument they're worth bogging down the team's offense for (I would not make that argument).
Brook isn't bullying anyone these days - he's actually much more of a threat against McGee and Howard as a 3pt shooter - and who cares about him or a small minutes backup like Boban on a non-playoff team or even Embiid who the Lakers will likely only face twice this season? Bully-ball Cs are few and far between these days, and it's not like a combination of McGee, Davis, and Noah couldn't have survived a meeting or two with Embiid without the same (bleep) baggage Dwight brings everywhere he goes.
Noah did play more games than Howard last season, fwiw, and was buried in NY as much for his obscene contract as for his health/performance. In addition to his superior FT shooting, Noah is a damn good passer for his position, and remains a vocal, active, and unselfish team defender unlike someone who recently joined the Los Angeles Lakers.
Melo is "done" because he refuses to adapt his game. He keeps saying he's going to change, but then he hits the court and thinks he's the same iso-scoring star he was a decade ago. If he was willing to adapt, he'd be in the NBA right now. But he's not willing to adapt...which sounds familiar.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | | This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
Perhaps a lack of imagination on your part.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I saw somewhere Dwight was eating 26 candy bars a day at one point, that's enough to drive anyone nuts
I had forgotten about Jason Kidd as well. Jason Kidd doesn't care who you are or how big you are, he'll punch Dwight in the nuts if he gets out of line. Kidd was one of the ones who vouched for Dwight this week so he won't be pleased if Dwight doesn't follow through on what he promised. |
Ok now it all makes sense. Dwight is gonna be Kidd's Sith apprentice who destroys the locker room and gets Vogel fired. |
I do think this is the start of Kidd's power play, but it seems like a dumb gambit even if it's low stakes.
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Axshun
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | | This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
I’m not convinced that it’s an upside. But I share the same assessment to treating this as the downfall to a wasted roster spot and season.
The response from members that dislike the signing treat it as though Dwight is expected to carry the team with Kwame skill set or lack there of. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Axshun wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | | This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
I’m not convinced that it’s an upside. But I share the same assessment to treating this as the downfall to a wasted roster spot and season.
The response from members that dislike the signing treat it as though Dwight is expected to carry the team with Kwame skill set or lack there of. |
No, it's that he can make the team worse than just hiring a guy off the street due to his toxic locker room personality and lack of focus on the court.
It's like buying a pretty looking vintage muscle car that everyone tells you has a shot engine, but you think you're the one who can finally fix it and keep it running. You don't use it all the time, of course. But then when you have to drive to an important work meeting, your pretty looking muscle car craps out on you right when you need it most, and all you can think about is how you should've gotten the dependable used Toyota Camry instead.
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Citizen Arcane
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Axshun wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | | This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
I’m not convinced that it’s an upside. But I share the same assessment to treating this as the downfall to a wasted roster spot and season.
The response from members that dislike the signing treat it as though Dwight is expected to carry the team with Kwame skill set or lack there of. |
No, it's that he can make the team worse than just hiring a guy off the street due to his toxic locker room personality and lack of focus on the court.
It's like buying a pretty looking vintage muscle car that everyone tells you has a shot engine, but you think you're the one who can finally fix it and keep it running. You don't use it all the time, of course. But then when you have to drive to an important work meeting, your pretty looking muscle car craps out on you right when you need it most, and all you can think about is how you should've gotten the dependable used Toyota Camry instead. |
We won a bunch of titles with a toxic locker room personality that even drove one of the best coaches in NBA history out for awhile.
I'm not comparing the skill as one was way more impactful than the other... but I bet if you went through NBA history you'd find a lot of obnoxious characters who helped win titles.
Bynum was a headcase but he helped us win...
I agree it's not ideal... but it seems better than trying to win a title with a Camry. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen Arcane wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Axshun wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | | This is an all upside signing. Don’t quite understand the disappointment |
I’m not convinced that it’s an upside. But I share the same assessment to treating this as the downfall to a wasted roster spot and season.
The response from members that dislike the signing treat it as though Dwight is expected to carry the team with Kwame skill set or lack there of. |
No, it's that he can make the team worse than just hiring a guy off the street due to his toxic locker room personality and lack of focus on the court.
It's like buying a pretty looking vintage muscle car that everyone tells you has a shot engine, but you think you're the one who can finally fix it and keep it running. You don't use it all the time, of course. But then when you have to drive to an important work meeting, your pretty looking muscle car craps out on you right when you need it most, and all you can think about is how you should've gotten the dependable used Toyota Camry instead. |
We won a bunch of titles with a toxic locker room personality that even drove one of the best coaches in NBA history out for awhile.
I'm not comparing the skill as one was way more impactful than the other... but I bet if you went through NBA history you'd find a lot of obnoxious characters who helped win titles.
Bynum was a headcase but he helped us win...
I agree it's not ideal... but it seems better than trying to win a title with a Camry. |
You're not trying to win with a Camry, you're trying to not lose for a few minutes a night with that Camry before your F-16s in Lebron and AD come back into the game well rested.
I'm also getting mixed messages here. Is Howard a key component to a championship team or a small minutes backup big who you think will become dependable after being humbled?
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis Miller of LG?
Talk about loft expectations of urself and spending OT on Howard thread
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Citizen Arcane
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
You're not trying to win with a Camry, you're trying to not lose for a few minutes a night with that Camry before your F-16s in Lebron and AD come back into the game well rested.
I'm also getting mixed messages here. Is Howard a key component to a championship team or a small minutes backup big who you think will become dependable after being humbled? |
I'm looking for a poor man's bully ball version of Randle with a
little more length and rim protection. I already agreed that there is a high likelihood of failure with this experiment... but in my opinion a higher likelihood of success than had we gone with Speights, Gortat, or Noah.
So maybe a 25% chance of it working... vs. a 10% chance of it with Noah.
The idea of LBJ or AD playing center might be better options were they actually willing to play that role... but they aren't so he's the best way to make it through the season without wearing them down.
Noah in his prime, except for maybe one year had about half the offensive production of Dwight... it's true he will probably be a fourth option but at least opponents need to pay attention to him on defense.
Whiteside... Gobert... Jokic... Adams... all of the playoff contenders have some sort of heavy load to deal with in the West. McGee was constantly bumped away because he lacks strength. I'm also glad the Clippers didn't sign him... even though I agree it's somewhat of a red flag that they didn't take him. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | Dennis Miller of LG?
Talk about loft expectations of urself and spending OT on Howard thread
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If you don't know, just ask. It's okay to ask, Jim.
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Fourplay
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I see some comparing Dwight to a “weaker” Julius. Uh no. He is still one of the strongest in the NBA and you don’t become DPOY by being undersized. This is a low risk high reward scenario that gives us credibility on the defensive end. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Dennis Miller of LG?
Talk about loft expectations of urself and spending OT on Howard thread
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If you don't know, just ask. It's okay to ask, Jim. |
It's ok banana head
Go hard at Dwight bro
Last edited by Jesusdelonla on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Citizen Arcane
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Fourplay wrote: | | I see some comparing Dwight to a “weaker” Julius. Uh no. He is still one of the strongest in the NBA and you don’t become DPOY by being undersized. This is a low risk high reward scenario that gives us credibility on the defensive end. |
Prime Dwight was better but Julius probably outrebounds him by around 20% per minute these days.
I'd like him to better than Julius but it will be unlikely unless he's regained the explosiveness of his youth somehow. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Game 1 of finals starters:
Avery
Green
LeBron
AD
Dwight
Crazy |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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While u r at it, grow out of YouTube bro.
YouTube is for 8yr olds hope u r older then that |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: |
While u r at it, grow out of YouTube bro.
YouTube is for 8yr olds hope u r older then that |
Jimmy over here just wankin' to the monster mash. Get your dingus kink on, bro.
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: |
While u r at it, grow out of YouTube bro.
YouTube is for 8yr olds hope u r older then that |
Jimmy over here just wankin' to the monster mash. Get your dingus kink on, bro. |
Trust me bvh, u ain't worth it  |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Funny thing is, if Dwight really did embrace a bench role he could feast on backup bigs. He would be facing the likes of Illyasova, Harrell, Ed Davis and Spellman. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: |
While u r at it, grow out of YouTube bro.
YouTube is for 8yr olds hope u r older then that |
youtube is for 8 year olds? so you don't watch any internet videos?
TIL Jim is in VLF's age group. Makes sense. When he's not shaking his cane at other people's posts (i now picture the Dana Carvey Old Man character when Jim does his 10x daily "still cryin over ____?" post) it's at these younguns with their yourtubes and eyephones. |
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