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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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 Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | If you frame it as an opinion, well, I think folks will be more tolerant. |
If you actually clarified what part of the story I missed, instead of going on diatribes about LG liars. I think folks will be more tolerant. |
Dude, I did. In nearly every post. Do you really want me to link to every instance? It was a specific line that I pointed out MULTIPLE times.
In any case, why is this about me when you admitted to making the mistake to begin with? Lol. I’ve said I’m ready to move on but you seem hell bent making your mistake my issue. Lol. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | ^ Couple convos there but if the notion is that it is no big deal that his invitation was at a certain point rescinded (obviously for political reasons not financial as some have claimed) because he was eventually permitted to give the commencement...
... I think that misses the point. That we achieved the desired result isn’t necessarily what matters. Sometimes, how you get there counts for a lot. |
Got it. But I will add, I had no issue if he got there or it he did not, so the path is immaterial. |
Because it is Bill Maher, right?
If the same thing had happened to say Ilhan Omar, you’d be all about it? |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | If you frame it as an opinion, well, I think folks will be more tolerant. |
If you actually clarified what part of the story I missed, instead of going on diatribes about LG liars. I think folks will be more tolerant. |
Dude, I did. In nearly every post. Do you really want me to link to every instance? It was a specific line that I pointed out MULTIPLE times.
In any case, why is this about me when you admitted to making the mistake to begin with? Lol. I’ve said I’m ready to move on but you seem hell bent making your mistake my issue. Lol. |
lol. I'm good.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
If we may ... let’s start fresh with this one.
Why do you think social restriction of speech is a theory? I mean, you don’t believe it exists? Or.... |
I think it is as much of a restriction as holding in a fart is in public.
Calling it a restriction is laughable. Adhering to a company's code of conduct or staying consistent with a company's desired public presence is a far more accurate description. |
So you would equate the social restriction we have on the N word, for instance, in similar vein to holding in a fart in public? |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
If we may ... let’s start fresh with this one.
Why do you think social restriction of speech is a theory? I mean, you don’t believe it exists? Or.... |
I think it is as much of a restriction as holding in a fart is in public.
Calling it a restriction is laughable. Adhering to a company's code of conduct or staying consistent with a company's desired public presence is a far more accurate description. |
So you would equate the social restriction we have on the N word, for instance, in similar vein to holding in a fart in public? |
I think social restriction of free speech is made up. There is only making choices that can get you fired. Or not. People are no more restricted from using the N word than they are from doing anything else that is unpleasant.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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What is acceptable to you go ahead and use it
You'll attract new friends
New employers etc |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
If we may ... let’s start fresh with this one.
Why do you think social restriction of speech is a theory? I mean, you don’t believe it exists? Or.... |
I think it is as much of a restriction as holding in a fart is in public.
Calling it a restriction is laughable. Adhering to a company's code of conduct or staying consistent with a company's desired public presence is a far more accurate description. |
So you would equate the social restriction we have on the N word, for instance, in similar vein to holding in a fart in public? |
I think social restriction of free speech is made up. There is only making choices that can get you fired. Or not. People are no more restricted from using the N word than they are from doing anything else that is unpleasant. |
Interesting and surprising. But glad we had this conversation. I actually kind of agree with you but I think that has more to do with my phrasing.
When certain people claim they are afraid to speak up for fear of bullying or other types of social retribution, do you think they are fabricating that, or, do you think they perceive a potential retribution that does not actually exist? |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
If we may ... let’s start fresh with this one.
Why do you think social restriction of speech is a theory? I mean, you don’t believe it exists? Or.... |
I think it is as much of a restriction as holding in a fart is in public.
Calling it a restriction is laughable. Adhering to a company's code of conduct or staying consistent with a company's desired public presence is a far more accurate description. |
So you would equate the social restriction we have on the N word, for instance, in similar vein to holding in a fart in public? |
I think social restriction of free speech is made up. There is only making choices that can get you fired. Or not. People are no more restricted from using the N word than they are from doing anything else that is unpleasant. |
If I understand you correctly, I'm going to disagree. There is a very strong social force restricting what we say. You mentioned the N word. Many people do not use this word in public, even racists, because of the social repercussions.
Back to the topic, I think that often times it is why we laugh when a comedian breaks those boundaries that we can't, as did Chappelle with his squinty eyed character.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
If we may ... let’s start fresh with this one.
Why do you think social restriction of speech is a theory? I mean, you don’t believe it exists? Or.... |
I think it is as much of a restriction as holding in a fart is in public.
Calling it a restriction is laughable. Adhering to a company's code of conduct or staying consistent with a company's desired public presence is a far more accurate description. |
So you would equate the social restriction we have on the N word, for instance, in similar vein to holding in a fart in public? |
I think social restriction of free speech is made up. There is only making choices that can get you fired. Or not. People are no more restricted from using the N word than they are from doing anything else that is unpleasant. |
If I understand you correctly, I'm going to disagree. There is a very strong social force restricting what we say. You mentioned the N word. Many people do not use this word in public, even racists, because of the social repercussions.
Back to the topic, I think that often times it is why we laugh when a comedian breaks those boundaries that we can't, as did Chappelle with his squinty eyed character. |
It’s rare we agree ribeye but with you 100%. I think his point is that you are free to say what you want even if saying what you want gets you bullied, fired, outcasted, you were still free to say it.
I probably didn’t say it literally enough but I think you picked up on what I was putting down.
And on your last point, yeah, you get comedy. That is good to see. Though I will say sometimes, a comedian straddles that line and falls flat on their face. But thats part of walking that line. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | If I understand you correctly, I'm going to disagree. There is a very strong social force restricting what we say. You mentioned the N word. Many people do not use this word in public, even racists, because of the social repercussions. |
If a waitress, off work, goes around a small town and belligerently cusses out everyone she sees. So much so, people in the town avoid going to where she works. The business suffers because of it. And she is fired. Did society restrict her freedom of speech? What if the towns folk didn't change their behavior at all and pretended like her actions outside of work didn't bother them (even though it does). In that case, would the townsfolk have their freedom of speech restricted (since the Supreme Court has established $ = speech)?
I think choosing to adhere to norms in your environment is not social restriction of freedom of speech.
I mean where's the line? I didn't fight with my wife, because she would get mad at what I wanted to say. So she restricted my freedom of speech?
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | If I understand you correctly, I'm going to disagree. There is a very strong social force restricting what we say. You mentioned the N word. Many people do not use this word in public, even racists, because of the social repercussions. |
If a waitress, off work, goes around a small town and belligerently cusses out everyone she sees. So much so, people in the town avoid going to where she works. The business suffers because of it. And she is fired. Did society restrict her freedom of speech? What if the towns folk didn't change their behavior at all and pretended like her actions outside of work didn't bother them (even though it does). In that case, would the townsfolk have their freedom of speech restricted (since the Supreme Court has established $ = speech)?
I think choosing to adhere to norms in your environment is not social restriction of freedom of speech.
I mean where's the line? I didn't fight with my wife, because she would get mad at what I wanted to say. So she restricted my freedom of speech? |
I am not saying that society restricts all speech. Often however, it does shape discourse for those who care to fit in. If you don't care to fit in, or you are just an arsehol, you are probably right--what others think will have no, or little, bearing on how you address fellow citizens.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | I am not saying that society restricts all speech. Often however, it does shape discourse for those who care to fit in. If you don't care to fit in, or you are just an arsehol, you are probably right--what others think will have no, or little, bearing on how you address fellow citizens. |
I don't like using freedom of speech in this scenario. Even if someone tacks on "societal restriction of" before it. Some people refrain from saying offensive things because they personally don't want to. Some only refrain because of what people around them would think. Their reasoning is their own in each individual scenario. Tough to associate that to a right afforded to citizens in a democracy.
It kind of devalues the right. Fearing how others will respond to what you have to say is not a restriction someone else is perpetrating on you.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | I finally watched this. It was really funny. |
i thought it was funny too. I find myself to be less and less PC as I get older |
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