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ChefLinda
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 Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:28 am Post subject: |
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More Than 100 News Organizations Call On Minnesota To End Police Arrests, Attacks On Journalists Covering Protests
| Quote: | A coalition of more than 100 state and national news organizations, including all of the major networks, are calling on state officials in Minnesota to “end the series of police arrests and attacks on credentialed and clearly identifiable journalists in your city in recent days.”
The incidents against reporters covering the protests of the death of George Floyd continued through the weekend, even after the Minnesota Governor Tim Walz apologized for the arrest of CNN’s Omar Jimenez and his crew while they were live on air early Friday. Reporters from an array of different outlets have been arrested or physically assaulted. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I'm of the school George Floyd will be the linchpin in changing the way Black communities and it's people are policed. As much as I dislike the phrasing "Every cloud has a silver lining."
Klobuchar: 3 more cops to be charged in Floyd case, Chauvin's charge upgraded to 2nd degree murder
LINK
| Quote: | Sen. Amy Klobuchar says Minnesota AG Keith Ellison is levying more charges against police officers in the George Floyd case.
"Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice," Klobuchar said. |
What will happen to these officers?
L.A. SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES
BEAT UP DETAINED MAN IN COMPTON ...
Think No One is Watching
LINK
| Quote: | The outrageous scene was shot in Compton, CA, earlier this week, and it shows L.A. County Sheriff's deputies attempting to detain a guy from behind some type of wall, sorta hidden from plain view. Somebody is filming from afar, unbeknownst to the officers.
At first, it looks like the guy's resisting -- but eventually ... they get him on the ground, and he makes it clear that he's not fighting them anymore. Not enough for these deputies though, it seems, 'cause at least one more rushes over and they start to pound on him. |
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Corey78
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
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11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
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11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| I don't watch these videos.. but a snippet I saw it looked like for a moment the other officers seemed to look confused why they were still on top of him |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
What will happen to these officers?
L.A. SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES
BEAT UP DETAINED MAN IN COMPTON ...
Think No One is Watching
LINK
| Quote: | The outrageous scene was shot in Compton, CA, earlier this week, and it shows L.A. County Sheriff's deputies attempting to detain a guy from behind some type of wall, sorta hidden from plain view. Somebody is filming from afar, unbeknownst to the officers.
At first, it looks like the guy's resisting -- but eventually ... they get him on the ground, and he makes it clear that he's not fighting them anymore. Not enough for these deputies though, it seems, 'cause at least one more rushes over and they start to pound on him. |
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I am not sure about firing ... maybe the cop who thought it was ok to put his knee on the guys head.. SEE he first put it on his neck.. then his conscience told him to move it..
They better be stripped of badges immediately and put out of work temporarily.. no desk job.. go to therapy.. job back if complete therapy
I suggest you write the Mayor |
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Corey78
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
·
11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive. |
Great. It is second degree felony murder. There is hope. It is second degree murder predicated on third degree assault. Of all the potential murder charges, third degree murder was the one with the least chance of being successful. It says something that the initial prosecutor would pick so doomed a charge.
The only thing I wonder is: when does an officer commit felony assault? By the nature of their jobs, they commit assaults. At what point does such an assault turn criminal. I wish there were specific state statutes (there is the doctrine of qualified immunity) speaking on the issue. |
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
·
11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive. |
Great. It is second degree felony murder. There is hope. It is second degree murder predicated on third degree assault. Of all the potential murder charges, third degree murder was the one with the least chance of being successful. It says something that the initial prosecutor would pick so doomed a charge.
The only thing I wonder is: when does an officer commit felony assault? By the nature of their jobs, they commit assaults. At what point does such an assault turn criminal. I wish there were specific state statutes (there is the doctrine of qualified immunity) speaking on the issue. |
I get what you are saying but I would suggest that the assault turns criminal when after approx 6 minutes of kneeling on him, Floyd stopped moving, appeared unresponsive and one of the cops said he could find no pulse and they continued to kneel on him for almost three minutes. If they "need" to assault people to control and detain and the person is unconscious then no need to continue the assault?
There may not be a statute that says, you must stop forcibly detaining someone when they become unresponsive but as a lay person that seems like common sense. As a juror, if there was no statute to go by that is what I would think I would go with.
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Last edited by SweetP on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
·
11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive. |
Great. It is second degree felony murder. There is hope. It is second degree murder predicated on third degree assault. Of all the potential murder charges, third degree murder was the one with the least chance of being successful. It says something that the initial prosecutor would pick so doomed a charge.
The only thing I wonder is: when does an officer commit felony assault? By the nature of their jobs, they commit assaults. At what point does such an assault turn criminal. I wish there were specific state statutes (there is the doctrine of qualified immunity) speaking on the issue. |
I get what you are saying but I would suggest that the assault turns criminal when after approx 6 minutes of kneeling on him, Floyd stopped moving, appeared unresponsive and one of the cops said he could find no pulse and they continued to kneel on him for almost three minutes. If they "need" to assault people to control and detain and the person is unconscious then no need to continue the assault? |
I'm not a lawyer. In novice position had I the tools I'd research case law statutes. IMO many here are basing their opinions on emotions not case law.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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President Obama will be speaking publicly in a few on MSNBC.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Corey78
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Posts: 1677
Location: Cerritos, California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
·
11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive. |
Great. It is second degree felony murder. There is hope. It is second degree murder predicated on third degree assault. Of all the potential murder charges, third degree murder was the one with the least chance of being successful. It says something that the initial prosecutor would pick so doomed a charge.
The only thing I wonder is: when does an officer commit felony assault? By the nature of their jobs, they commit assaults. At what point does such an assault turn criminal. I wish there were specific state statutes (there is the doctrine of qualified immunity) speaking on the issue. |
I get what you are saying but I would suggest that the assault turns criminal when after approx 6 minutes of kneeling on him, Floyd stopped moving, appeared unresponsive and one of the cops said he could find no pulse and they continued to kneel on him for almost three minutes. If they "need" to assault people to control and detain and the person is unconscious then no need to continue the assault? |
I agree. But the law should be clear, otherwise it leaves uncertainty. We have statutes which define "assault on a officer." Why not statutes which define "assault by an officer." If we did, there would be less confusion when pressing charges. I suspect the officer's counsel may argue that it wasn't assault. And, with no statute specifically defining assault it muddies the water.
I found one Minnesota statute which may bear on the issue (it also may not). In relevant part, Section 609.43 provides: A public officer or employee who does any of the following, for which no other sentence is specifically provided by law, may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both. . . under pretense or color of official authority intentionally and unlawfully injures another in the other's person, property, or rights.
I think a defense attorney could argue that Section 609.43 trumps Minnesota's third degree assault statute. Minnesota's third degree assault statute does not specifically provide a sentence for police officers, and the statute would require the officer intend to injure whereas Minnesota's assault statutes do not require an intent to injure. Rather, all that is required is that the person commit an unlawful physical which results in injury. Usually, when two statutes are the same or have similar elements, the specific statute overrides the general one.
So, theoretically, a defense attorney could argue that officer Chauvin did not intend to injure George Floyd. Rather, he simply sought to restrain him, and he employed his restraint in a very reckless matter. But he never intended to injure. The statute doesn't really define injured so that may be helpful on our part. Also, there is another provision in Section 609.43 which could be applicable. Essentially, it is criminal if an officer "in the capacity of such officer or employee, does an act knowing it is in excess of lawful authority or knowing it is forbidden by law to be done in that capacity." |
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | | Corey78 wrote: | | SweetP wrote: | Amy Klobuchar
@amyklobuchar
·
11m
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice. |
While laudable, and assuming this is just second degree murder (and not second degree felony murder), then it will be difficult to prove intent to kill. Did he intend deadly force against George Floyd when he used a non-deadly force technique? He may have been arrogant, callous, depraved, etc., but did he intend to kill him. We have seen too many people get acquitted in the past. There is some potential that he can get convicted of second degree felony murder which is usually a lesser included offense, but even there they may have to prove he intended to injure George Floyd. |
I think I heard second degree felony murder but not positive. |
Great. It is second degree felony murder. There is hope. It is second degree murder predicated on third degree assault. Of all the potential murder charges, third degree murder was the one with the least chance of being successful. It says something that the initial prosecutor would pick so doomed a charge.
The only thing I wonder is: when does an officer commit felony assault? By the nature of their jobs, they commit assaults. At what point does such an assault turn criminal. I wish there were specific state statutes (there is the doctrine of qualified immunity) speaking on the issue. |
I get what you are saying but I would suggest that the assault turns criminal when after approx 6 minutes of kneeling on him, Floyd stopped moving, appeared unresponsive and one of the cops said he could find no pulse and they continued to kneel on him for almost three minutes. If they "need" to assault people to control and detain and the person is unconscious then no need to continue the assault? |
I agree. But the law should be clear, otherwise it leaves uncertainty. We have statutes which define "assault on a officer." Why not statutes which define "assault by an officer." If we did, there would be less confusion when pressing charges. I suspect the officer's counsel may argue that it wasn't assault. And, with no statute specifically defining assault it muddies the water.
I found one Minnesota statute which may bear on the issue (it also may not). In relevant part, Section 609.43 provides: A public officer or employee who does any of the following, for which no other sentence is specifically provided by law, may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both. . . under pretense or color of official authority intentionally and unlawfully injures another in the other's person, property, or rights.
I think a defense attorney could argue that Section 609.43 trumps Minnesota's third degree assault statute. Minnesota's third degree assault statute does not specifically provide a sentence for police officers, and the statute would require the officer intend to injure whereas Minnesota's assault statutes do not require an intent to injure. Rather, all that is required is that the person commit an unlawful physical which results in injury. Usually, when two statutes are the same or have similar elements, the specific statute overrides the general one.
So, theoretically, a defense attorney could argue that officer Chauvin did not intend to injure George Floyd. Rather, he simply sought to restrain him, and he employed his restraint in a very reckless matter. But he never intended to injure. The statute doesn't really define injured so that may be helpful on our part. Also, there is another provision in Section 609.43 which could be applicable. Essentially, it is criminal if an officer "in the capacity of such officer or employee, does an act knowing it is in excess of lawful authority or knowing it is forbidden by law to be done in that capacity." |
Thank you for this input. I agree, if there are appropriate local or state statutes that can be applied, they need to be. If we don't like the statutes, we need to legislate to change them. And in the absence of applicable statutes, I hope the jury uses common sense. But charging cops is always difficult and having more concrete rules to charge would be helpful indeed.
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DaMuleRules
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's also possible that the feds could get involved, with charges of their own. My friend, an attorney, just texted me this. And the "Mr. Thomas" referenced is not Clarence Thomas, but a law professor.
"In the federal system, when somebody's constitutional rights have been violated and there's a death that occurs, then the feds take the case," Mr. Thomas said. "A Civil rights violation is far greater and carries a lot of impact. And so if they can get those charges, it's easier to convict an officer than on murder." Under federal law, anyone found guilty of depriving someone of their constitutional rights resulting in their deaths can face up to life in prison or be sentenced to death. |
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jonnybravo
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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That worm's a closet racist. Kings players hated him by all counts. Somewhere Demarcus Cousins is flashing a big grin of satisfaction.
Well done DMC. He baited that racist bastard...hook, line and sinker.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: |
That worm's a closet racist. Kings players hated him by all counts. Somewhere Demarcus Cousins is flashing a big grin of satisfaction.
Well done DMC. He baited that racist bastard...hook, line and sinker. |
Yep. Sure did!
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think that link is to a piece by Gen Mullins, former Joint Chief of Staff, also a good one.
This is link to Mattis' statement, Trump's own former Sect of Defense:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/
Current SOD Esper spoke out today also against using military for policing civilians, after trying to explain why he went with Trump to the church. And Republican Majority Whip Thune also backed Esper so it's a minor groundswell. Let's hope it does some good!
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wow some obvious Trumpster just tried to plow down protesters in Newport Beach on live TV! No doubt there is video of the car's plate.
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wow some obvious Trumpster just tried to plow down protesters in Newport Beach on live TV! No doubt there is video of the car's plate.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | Wow some obvious Trumpster just tried to plow down protesters in Newport Beach on live TV! No doubt there is video of the car's plate. |
Arizona plates - and yes, the number was captured.
https://www.foxla.com/news/car-careens-through-crowd-of-peaceful-protesters-in-newport-beach
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
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XTC
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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The majority of the protesters here are white. I won't lie, I'm shocked that Newport Beach had such a great turnout and kind of proud. I guess I need to work on my own biases.
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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The cops caught up fast and detained that MAGA pice of (bleep).
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Man we're having to close up at 7. Jesus, can I just get a break?
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