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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17098
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 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | Every champion in the last ten years has been top five in Total Shooting Percentage.
The last team to win the title without being top five?
Us in 2010.
The problem is that no one has done this since the three pointer became a focal point of the NBA offense.
We are currently top six at 57.7% The Clippers and the Raptors are at 57.4%
Since we are only a percentage point behind Miami the league leader at 58.7%, I still consider us one of the favorites... but shooting statistics are important predictors of a team success, if not the most important.
Our problem is that we rank 18th in 3 point% and 28th in FT% but we are 3rd in 2 point %. So if you take away the easy AD, JaVale, and Dwight buckets... you can neutralize our offensive efficiency.
This is another reason why we can't trade Danny Green until we find more players who can shoot threes at over 40% and FTs at over 80% |
That's the other thing - if we're bricking wide open threes, we cannot compound the issue by clanking FTs. Only the Knicks miss more FT than the Lakers (6.5/game). In the Playoffs, that is a HUGE deal because possessions are precious.
If we're top 8 in turnovers, bottom 3 in FT% and bottom half in 3-pt%, that means on the possessions that don't end in 3-pts, turnovers of FTA, we have to be incredibly efficient. But when we don't hit 3s, that makes it easier to stop the other possessions.
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3102
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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we don't need to out shoot other teams. we need to be able to hit wide open shots at least. That is the only way LBJ and AD can be dominant in the paint.
Lakers worked so hard to get the home court and that advantage is gone now. Lakers need someone who can sign good players not just clutch clients. Look at the signings.
the only reason we are No 1 is seed is because Clippers didn't care about that.
Bradley - Injury prone
Green - just a 3 point shooter. who is very streaky
KCP - very average. won't be a starter in many teams
Mcgee - can only dunk and block a couple of shots a game. makes too many fouls.
DH: can only dunk and block. horrible scoring option.
Kuz : very inconsistent.
caruso: good defense. horrible at shooting.
except AD, most of the teams FT percentage is medicore. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | Before the season supposedly we were in the market for Seth Curry which would have solved our shooting woes but Green and Bradley were brought in instead. |
Curry signed a four-year deal; we were only giving out two-year deals. We probably could have gotten him if we gave him most of Green's money. I don't see how we could have gotten them both. In hindsight, Curry looks like he would have been a better choice. But that's in hindsight. Green was coming off a year when he was number two in the league in 3-point shooting |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | we don't need to out shoot other teams. we need to be able to hit wide open shots at least. That is the only way LBJ and AD can be dominant in the paint.
Lakers worked so hard to get the home court and that advantage is gone now. Lakers need someone who can sign good players not just clutch clients. Look at the signings.
the only reason we are No 1 is seed is because Clippers didn't care about that.
Bradley - Injury prone
Green - just a 3 point shooter. who is very streaky
KCP - very average. won't be a starter in many teams
Mcgee - can only dunk and block a couple of shots a game. makes too many fouls.
DH: can only dunk and block. horrible scoring option.
Kuz : very inconsistent.
caruso: good defense. horrible at shooting.
except AD, most of the teams FT percentage is medicore. |
You strike me as the type of person who looks at a supermodel and complains that her feet are too big |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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In the last 8 seasons*, only two champsionship teams fell outside the top 5 in 3-point shooting. Last year's Raptors (they were 6th) and the 2011-2012 Heat (10th).
We are 19th this year. So it would be quite an outlier.
*about when the pace and space era started to blow up, though 2015 is really where we get the game we have today if you look at the huge 3-point spike |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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What would make me feel better about the above indicators^
1. That this Laker team is similar to that Miami team, although i have to say 27-year-old Lebron + Wade + Bosh > 35-year-old Lebron + AD
2. That that ranking doesn't really reflect the additions of Dion and JR Smith.
3. That Vogel will *gets down on knees praying* play AD at the damn 5 and stop screwing around with these space/movement-destroying Javale lineups.
4. Lebron will be in better shape than he is now.
5. That if Danny Green doesn't wake up from his season-long Mozdeng level money-sucking coma that we will just bench him. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| We really should not be trying to shoot our way to a ring. It will not work. Just about every other contender is better at it than us. There is no trick play to get around, no strategy that will fix it. We basically need to be trying to win in another way. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | What would make me feel better about the above indicators^
1. That this Laker team is similar to that Miami team, although i have to say 27-year-old Lebron + Wade + Bosh > 35-year-old Lebron + AD
2. That that ranking doesn't really reflect the additions of Dion and JR Smith.
3. That Vogel will *gets down on knees praying* play AD at the damn 5 and stop screwing around with these space/movement-destroying Javale lineups.
4. Lebron will be in better shape than he is now.
5. That if Danny Green doesn't wake up from his season-long Mozdeng level money-sucking coma that we will just bench him. |
Yea...what is the deal with that? I feel like we should be doing our damnest to get AD 40ppg and forget everything else. I have an explanation which involves blaming lebron. But it really is puzzling. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | What would make me feel better about the above indicators^
1. That this Laker team is similar to that Miami team, although i have to say 27-year-old Lebron + Wade + Bosh > 35-year-old Lebron + AD
2. That that ranking doesn't really reflect the additions of Dion and JR Smith.
3. That Vogel will *gets down on knees praying* play AD at the damn 5 and stop screwing around with these space/movement-destroying Javale lineups.
4. Lebron will be in better shape than he is now.
5. That if Danny Green doesn't wake up from his season-long Mozdeng level money-sucking coma that we will just bench him. |
Yea...what is the deal with that? I feel like we should be doing our damnest to get AD 40ppg and forget everything else. I have an explanation which involves blaming lebron. But it really is puzzling. |
I'm hoping he's just honoring AD's request through these semi-meaningless regular season games. Once playoffs start, if AD is still only playing at the 5 for like 30% of the game, it means he's not committed to a ring and Vogel isn't the right coach for this team. We are near dominant when AD plays the 5. We are extremely beatable if not downright putrid when we play him with Javale or Dwight. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:12 am Post subject: |
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It doesn’t matter what position AD plays, smart coaches like Nurse will double and triple team him and force the game outside of the paint. Putting the Lakers at a disadvantage. But a team needs to have the personnel to do that, some, like the Rockets, don’t have the length. Toronto, Clippers, Blazers, maybe OKC possess the personnel to do that.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | What would make me feel better about the above indicators^
1. That this Laker team is similar to that Miami team, although i have to say 27-year-old Lebron + Wade + Bosh > 35-year-old Lebron + AD
2. That that ranking doesn't really reflect the additions of Dion and JR Smith.
3. That Vogel will *gets down on knees praying* play AD at the damn 5 and stop screwing around with these space/movement-destroying Javale lineups.
4. Lebron will be in better shape than he is now.
5. That if Danny Green doesn't wake up from his season-long Mozdeng level money-sucking coma that we will just bench him. |
Yea...what is the deal with that? I feel like we should be doing our damnest to get AD 40ppg and forget everything else. I have an explanation which involves blaming lebron. But it really is puzzling. |
Here's a tidbit from 82 games.
The lineup we have used the most is McGee, Davis, James, Green and Bradley. That unit has been highly effective, with a 70% win rate.
The lineup we have used the second most is identical, except for swapping Bradley with KCP. That unit has been highly ineffective, with a 45% win rate. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Teams can heat up in the playoffs (2011 Mavs might be best example of this) but there’s usually a baseline quality. That team Mavs team was already a good shooting team and just got hotter as playoffs went on. The Lakers have been a statistically poor shooting team all season. Our two best shooters don’t even play. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5108
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I still can't believe we got rid of Svi.
58% TS this season and 40% from three. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | It doesn’t matter what position AD plays, smart coaches like Nurse will double and triple team him and force the game outside of the paint. Putting the Lakers at a disadvantage. But a team needs to have the personnel to do that, some, like the Rockets, don’t have the length. Toronto, Clippers, Blazers, maybe OKC possess the personnel to do that. |
j
Clippers sure as F don't.
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scoobs
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | I still can't believe we got rid of Svi.
58% TS this season and 40% from three. |
Yeah, I know. But, at least they traded him for a proven three-point shooter in Bullock. Bullock didn't pan out for us, but we were in win now mode, and at least they tried. |
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scoobs
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Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
That’s been discussed all season. Traditionally, teams put shooters around Lebron. The Lakers opted to go for ball handlers and defenders instead. I think there must have been 10,000 media stories analyzing that choice before the first regular season game. |
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
That’s been discussed all season. Traditionally, teams put shooters around Lebron. The Lakers opted to go for ball handlers and defenders instead. I think there must have been 10,000 media stories analyzing that choice before the first regular season game. |
I was hearing names like Derek Rose and Spencer Dinwiddie discussed a lot. Both are not three point shooters. I think we should be discussing acquiring shooters. Whenever somebody brings up a name like Buddy Hield, people are all negative about it, because of his defense. But, at least he's a damn good shooter that could put up a lot of points. |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12125
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
That’s been discussed all season. Traditionally, teams put shooters around Lebron. The Lakers opted to go for ball handlers and defenders instead. I think there must have been 10,000 media stories analyzing that choice before the first regular season game. |
I was hearing names like Derek Rose and Spencer Dinwiddie discussed a lot. Both are not three point shooters. I think we should be discussing acquiring shooters. Whenever somebody brings up a name like Buddy Hield, people are all negative about it, because of his defense. But, at least he's a damn good shooter that could put up a lot of points. |
buddy would be incredible on this team |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
That’s been discussed all season. Traditionally, teams put shooters around Lebron. The Lakers opted to go for ball handlers and defenders instead. I think there must have been 10,000 media stories analyzing that choice before the first regular season game. |
I was hearing names like Derek Rose and Spencer Dinwiddie discussed a lot. Both are not three point shooters. I think we should be discussing acquiring shooters. Whenever somebody brings up a name like Buddy Hield, people are all negative about it, because of his defense. But, at least he's a damn good shooter that could put up a lot of points. |
There were millions of trade rumors in the media, bringing up every name in the league. As far as fan speculation here, that's meaningless. Fans tend to either (1) just react to media reports or (2) suggest trades that will never happen unless they have incriminating photos of a GM and can force them into a bad deal.
That's next season, though. Right now, the only thing I care about is how the Lakers close out the year.
Then we can assess how the team did when stuff really mattered, and what it needs.
And THEN of course comes the question of who we can actually get in a trade. Our cupboard of tradeable assets is pretty bare. I don't think THT has much value. Kuz's value may depend on the kind of playoff he has. Then, of course, you have the double-edged sword: If he does produce big to make him a tradeable asset, do you still want to trade him?
At this moment, I doubt we could out together a package that would get us Hield.
Last edited by activeverb on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | I have been saying that the Lakers need shooters for the longest time. A lot of folks on here seem to be focusing on ball handlers and such. |
That’s been discussed all season. Traditionally, teams put shooters around Lebron. The Lakers opted to go for ball handlers and defenders instead. I think there must have been 10,000 media stories analyzing that choice before the first regular season game. |
I was hearing names like Derek Rose and Spencer Dinwiddie discussed a lot. Both are not three point shooters. I think we should be discussing acquiring shooters. Whenever somebody brings up a name like Buddy Hield, people are all negative about it, because of his defense. But, at least he's a damn good shooter that could put up a lot of points. |
buddy would be incredible on this team |
I agree. He is a HIGH VOLUME and HIGH PERCENTAGE three point shooter. Sure, he gives a lot of point on the defensive end, but he makes up for it on the defensive end, and he could also wear out opposing wing defenders, which is like playing defense indirectly? |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17098
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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The problems with acquiring Buddy Hield are:
1 - he plays for Sacramento and Sacramento hates the Lakers more than the Joker hates Batman.
2 - Luke Walton would probably cut his ear off before agreeing to help the Lakers.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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One for effing twelve from 3 so far.
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Our 3-point shooting was OK before the hiatus. We had enough games where we got hot from downtown. It's really been since the resumption of the season we've been ice cold.
It's weird though, the early 2000s teams had trouble hitting 3s consistently, but somehow in key playoffs games those 3s magically started to go through the hoop early and often.
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Since the restart we are dead last in 3pt%. Shooting 29%. And that’s before tallying today’s game for which we are currently 1-12. Dead last in FG% too.
Not good.
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