LAKERS -vs- HEAT - 10/6 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:21 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
I really appreciate the way Lebron battled last night as it was obvious his jumper was off. He looked for the slightest crease in the Miami defense and attacked the basket without regard for human life. I agree DB, it would help Lebron tremendously if this team pushed more in transition, but hell, it would help the entire team as the Lakers half-court offense is rather meh.

One more win, one more Larry. That will anguish the Celtics fans and their ancient "dynasty" within a 10 team league.

Halfcourt offense is simplistic by design, IMO. This is year 1 of the Bron/AD era. If you go back to the year 1 of the Shaq/Kobe/Phil era, the offense was also a lot simpler than it was in year 2 or 3. The fact is, these guys are no different than Kawhi/George teaming up, it is just that due to their immense talents, efforts and great defensive coaching, the team was able to accomplish things immediately. The Lakers offense, should be better as time goes on, as they figure out more things. Year 1 plan was quite simple - Lebron is QB 1, Rondo QB2, they orchestrate offense, Vogel focuses on defense. I am assuming Kidd talks a lot to Rondo/Bron, as does Handy.

Our offense also bogs down IMO because we tend to go back to the Bron PG game. When we let Rondo run the offense with Bron playing off the ball, it is a thing of beauty. We do not mix it up enough between Bron and Rondo at PG. Bron needs to shift more often to the Kobe/Jordan role in the post, mid-wing area. Draw the attention. Rondo initiates. Rondo can set up Bron, or call for a screen and create team offense. Instead we see Bron do what I want Rondo to do, we can't really get AD the ball through traffic, and we end up seeing Bron play against the shot clock waiting for the best shot (which to his credit and IQ, he often gets for his teammate or himself).

And of course our running game is the best in the league, hands down. For some reason though, Bron is not pushing the ball in this series. I am trying to think why we are not pushing the ball as much, and my guess is that Miami is great at deflections and getting back in transition, things that you didn't see with Denver/Houtson.

Win or lose this series, Next season, I would definitely like to see more Lebron off the ball in the 4th. We need to trust other guys to make PG/QB plays. I like Lebron starting off games as a PG to set up AD. But he needs to close games in the Jordan/Kobe role, IMO. Or, we need to set up that role for AD. It's a shame Bron got AD so late in his career. These guys could have won 4-5 rings together in a 8 year span. Their chemistry and value together is as much as you saw with Shaq/Kobe. Just a shame Bron's time as a MVP level player is winding down.



Oh I agree wolf. There wasn't much time as this is an ad hoc team within a shortened season. Next season Vogel will be better judged on what he can do with a half-court offense, but for now the best bet is to rely on the singular dominance of AD and Lebron which is obviously working for now. In the meantime (which might be one game) I'd like to see the Lakers capitalize more on transition opportunities.

It is sad that we're getting Lebron so late in his career, but I think he has a good two, maybe three seasons left. I'd like to see him more as co-facilitator with a PG in a half-court offense, and have him drift between the high post and the three point line. Ditto with AD, less as a facilitator but rather as zone buster. A better half-court offense might save Lebron's legs too in order to close out games.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
On the game, I would really like Frank to make another adjustment next game, and that is shift Bron to more off the ball earlier in the 2nd half. I understand starting the game with Bron as the PG, but we need to close games with Rondo as our PG. Especially with the way Miami is defending us, we need to refrain from the overdribbling from Bron. I know we are looking for the mismatch off screens that lead to switches, using Bron as the ballhandler, but we need to mix it up more. We played as good as defense as you will ever see in the NBA, these playoffs. I would love for Vogel to start to trust Rondo more as the initiator in the 4th Q, and Lebron a little more in the Jordan/Kobe role. It seems AD is best served being the spot up 3 point shooter/rebound put back/cutter in the 4th Q in the Bron minutes. But our 4th Q offense in this one allowed Miami to stay in it, IMO.

Only late, did we begin to use Rondo the way we should have in the 4th.

That is not to say that we did not make some great adjustments and some changes, they have been noted. Kieff instead of Dwight, AD on Butler, going under screens against Butler, more action looking for cutters in the offense instead of settling for the quick 3. We did a lot of good things. I just think we could have put Miami away much earlier with taking Bron more off the ball in the 4th.


Yeah, I forget what game it was. Possibly in the Denver series or maybe early in this one, but Bron will really slow the pace down and it ends up hurting the offense as we take one tough action per possession. Rondo quickens things and gets rolling sooner. Even just mixing it a little might help keep the tempo up. Getting Bron coming off a screen whether that's to a post up or some other action, but getting him doing that were we get penetration as a result via pass, would benefit the offense a lot in those situations.
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Lakers#1Team
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB! It's Bron, AD, and a patchwork quilt that provides the needed support. Just about all of our support players can be clutch but also can be inconsistent. It works if there is enough players on their game on any given night. Or in clutch moments. It's the collective defense that holds this together.
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject:

Lakers bench 27 points
Heat bench 13 points

Nuff said.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Mahalo DB!

It's been a very long ride since Kobe's game 7 and you've been here for all of it. Love reading your postgame thoughts. Can't wait to read the next one after this amazing team brings it home for the Mamba.

100% Gratitude for You Brother.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:42 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
On the game, I would really like Frank to make another adjustment next game, and that is shift Bron to more off the ball earlier in the 2nd half. I understand starting the game with Bron as the PG, but we need to close games with Rondo as our PG. Especially with the way Miami is defending us, we need to refrain from the overdribbling from Bron. I know we are looking for the mismatch off screens that lead to switches, using Bron as the ballhandler, but we need to mix it up more. We played as good as defense as you will ever see in the NBA, these playoffs. I would love for Vogel to start to trust Rondo more as the initiator in the 4th Q, and Lebron a little more in the Jordan/Kobe role. It seems AD is best served being the spot up 3 point shooter/rebound put back/cutter in the 4th Q in the Bron minutes. But our 4th Q offense in this one allowed Miami to stay in it, IMO.

Only late, did we begin to use Rondo the way we should have in the 4th.

That is not to say that we did not make some great adjustments and some changes, they have been noted. Kieff instead of Dwight, AD on Butler, going under screens against Butler, more action looking for cutters in the offense instead of settling for the quick 3. We did a lot of good things. I just think we could have put Miami away much earlier with taking Bron more off the ball in the 4th.


Yeah, I forget what game it was. Possibly in the Denver series or maybe early in this one, but Bron will really slow the pace down and it ends up hurting the offense as we take one tough action per possession. Rondo quickens things and gets rolling sooner. Even just mixing it a little might help keep the tempo up. Getting Bron coming off a screen whether that's to a post up or some other action, but getting him doing that were we get penetration as a result via pass, would benefit the offense a lot in those situations.


That double high screen set to close out Denver was magnificent.

Saw AC set a very aggressive back pick on Nunn I think at the top of the zone on LBJs drive and dunk.

Put AD and DH on the block for lobs and rebounds...let the guards go hard screen on the guys at the top of the zone and pop out to the 3 line...and most of all...

Play D so we can run out before they set up and it's a wrap.

You just don't dance, taunt, shimmy, or snarl on this Laker squad...just don't do it.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
I really appreciate the way Lebron battled last night as it was obvious his jumper was off. He looked for the slightest crease in the Miami defense and attacked the basket without regard for human life. I agree DB, it would help Lebron tremendously if this team pushed more in transition, but hell, it would help the entire team as the Lakers half-court offense is rather meh.

One more win, one more Larry. That will anguish the Celtics fans and their ancient "dynasty" within a 10 team league.
Halfcourt offense is simplistic by design, IMO. This is year 1 of the Bron/AD era. If you go back to the year 1 of the Shaq/Kobe/Phil era, the offense was also a lot simpler than it was in year 2 or 3. The fact is, these guys are no different than Kawhi/George teaming up, it is just that due to their immense talents, efforts and great defensive coaching, the team was able to accomplish things immediately. The Lakers offense, should be better as time goes on, as they figure out more things. Year 1 plan was quite simple - Lebron is QB 1, Rondo QB2, they orchestrate offense, Vogel focuses on defense. I am assuming Kidd talks a lot to Rondo/Bron, as does Handy.

Our offense also bogs down IMO because we tend to go back to the Bron PG game. When we let Rondo run the offense with Bron playing off the ball, it is a thing of beauty. We do not mix it up enough between Bron and Rondo at PG. Bron needs to shift more often to the Kobe/Jordan role in the post, mid-wing area. Draw the attention. Rondo initiates. Rondo can set up Bron, or call for a screen and create team offense. Instead we see Bron do what I want Rondo to do, we can't really get AD the ball through traffic, and we end up seeing Bron play against the shot clock waiting for the best shot (which to his credit and IQ, he often gets for his teammate or himself).

And of course our running game is the best in the league, hands down. For some reason though, Bron is not pushing the ball in this series. I am trying to think why we are not pushing the ball as much, and my guess is that Miami is great at deflections and getting back in transition, things that you didn't see with Denver/Houtson.

Win or lose this series, Next season, I would definitely like to see more Lebron off the ball in the 4th. We need to trust other guys to make PG/QB plays. I like Lebron starting off games as a PG to set up AD. But he needs to close games in the Jordan/Kobe role, IMO. Or, we need to set up that role for AD. It's a shame Bron got AD so late in his career. These guys could have won 4-5 rings together in a 8 year span. Their chemistry and value together is as much as you saw with Shaq/Kobe. Just a shame Bron's time as a MVP level player is winding down.
Good points

With "Do" injury at various times of the season, Vogel goes for what he has confidence in - especially during The Finals

Having Bron in the post limits (during the regular season) opportnities for AD/Dwight/JaVale in the post and takes them away from their "rebounding position."

In the Finals (with this team), they are doing simple P&R to get the matchups that they want. Having Bron trigger the hockey assist with Rondo is a good option in addition to "Do" having the ball. On one option, defenders will sag off of Do but he is smart enought to keep moving/cutting/screening to be open to be part of a hockey assist. As Legler noted in his breakdown, with Heat defending the pass on Do on his penetration, he has open looks at the hoop

Love AC's constant effort, drive, energy, defense, taking screens, in-you-face attitude, basketball IQ and many other things that has earned Bron's total respect.

Kuz is getting smarter and learning

Wonder what Spoelstra will do to counter AD guarding Buckets, probably trying different schemes to take AD off of him. Team was finally able to make Buckets go left and take their chances with that and with Herro/Robinson tkaing key shots.

Bron realizes that Crowder is trying to him off his game. It seems that it made Bron stronger to go right after Crowder when the opportunities are there.

Sad that when it's Winning Times, Danny Green is fading away - not anticipated and was hoping he would come through - maybe in the next game. It seems that Vogel trust the Bron, AD, KCP, AC/Marquis and Rondo to end games.

Buckets has proven that he is the better basketball competitor than Kawhi (personally surprised).
Sidebar: With the Western Conference showing that its top tier tier teams have gotten better (along with Curry, Klay and Green healthy) - Clippers seemingly will remain to be a very good regular season team and not going deep in the playoffs.

Great that the Heat has shown that team togetherness, mental toughness and focus can be very successful resulting in seriously challening the Lakers - hence making winning this ring very fulfilling - plus it is the season of COVID19 and the death of the Black Mamba

Will they wear their Mamba jerseys in Game 5????
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ReaListik
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject:

1 more
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:39 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Will they wear their Mamba jerseys in Game 5????

Yeah man, they are. Pretty intense intentions and message. Gonna be a lot of pressure on them to close it out.

Vanessa even wished them luck.

I wish there was a game TONIGHT. I want this so bad, but have been hiding it, somewhat. Still want to say, the job is not done, like a 10000 times a day.

1 more mamba effort from the Lakeshow, and AD/Bron cement their jerseys in the rafters, and we forever cherish role players like KCP, Howard, Morris, Caruso ala Fish/Fox/Horry
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fakethefunk
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:27 am    Post subject:

Dancingbarry.... can you bring back the horsemen thoughts and ratings
If we win game 5? I miss and love those!!
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