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| Which free agency (2021 or 2022) should the Lakers prioritize? |
| 2021 |
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37% |
[ 14 ] |
| 2022 |
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62% |
[ 23 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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2023 plan at the earliest
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I’m willing to wait until 2022, I’m not really intrigued by next summer’s FA class because the only real stud in that class is Giannis and we likely don’t have a chance at getting him, but in 2022 James Harden will potentially be available as well as other great players to pair them up with AD. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Neither for me. Cap space is a cop-out to some degree. Beyond LA already being in a title window, Morey proved value contracts are more valuable than cap space because you can always move a guy on a good deal into space, often for picks. Even if you miss a bit, at worst it costs you a pick. In the meantime, your team is better and you are more attractive to free agents.
The trick of course is making smart free agent choices, which is hard. Fine to walk away and keep your flexibility if a good deal isn't there. But cap space shouldn't be the plan. |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | Neither for me. Cap space is a cop-out to some degree. Beyond LA already being in a title window, Morey proved value contracts are more valuable than cap space because you can always move a guy on a good deal into space, often for picks. Even if you miss a bit, at worst it costs you a pick. In the meantime, your team is better and you are more attractive to free agents.
The trick of course is making smart free agent choices, which is hard. Fine to walk away and keep your flexibility if a good deal isn't there. But cap space shouldn't be the plan. |
Yes it's: Superstar > Amazing value free agent > Cap space. If you can't find a great deal or Superstar you punt till the next season. In a perfect world.
But our window is now so:
Trade the 28 and Kuz; load up on 2 year deals. Once LBJ's contract is up we can use the cap space to get AD another star or find a diamond in the rough. |
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LastStand 2.0
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Neither. Need to take advantage of the window now. Worry about space later. Sign good players to good deals that aren’t overpays and build this roster for next season
You don’t sacrifice championships for maybe championships 2 years from now
Lakers can win back to back. They’re the most talented team in the league as of now and actually have flexibility to make a move to get more talented
The time is now. Win as many as you can while lebron is where he is. I think he resigns in a couple years but he won’t be the same guy. He’ll be a 3rd option kinda guy
Davis is amazing but he’s not lebron. Need to take advantage and collect as many as you can before inevitably some star gets upset about lebrons dominance and joins a team a la Durant to walk to an easy ring |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LastStand 2.0 wrote: | Neither. Need to take advantage of the window now. Worry about space later. Sign good players to good deals that aren’t overpays and build this roster for next season
You don’t sacrifice championships for maybe championships 2 years from now
Lakers can win back to back. They’re the most talented team in the league as of now and actually have flexibility to make a move to get more talented
The time is now. Win as many as you can while lebron is where he is. I think he resigns in a couple years but he won’t be the same guy. He’ll be a 3rd option kinda guy
Davis is amazing but he’s not lebron. Need to take advantage and collect as many as you can before inevitably some star gets upset about lebrons dominance and joins a team a la Durant to walk to an easy ring |
So would you sign a good role player to a 4 year deal over a player a little worse but willing to take a two year? (I wouldn't but it's a tough call eitherway) |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think “neither” is not really a fair choice. So will we sign players to 3 year deals bf we aren’t strategically arranging cap space down the road? I don’t buy it. I think the FO is angling towards one of the other. KCP/Kuz/etc extension will be a tell tale sign.
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deal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | 2021 - go all in on Giannis.
Basketball is still a simple game and works best played inside-out.
Giannis & AD (with a thug big off the bench) will be incredibly easy to build around, because skilled, cheap smalls are much more available than skilled, cheap bigs. |
LeBron would have to be long gone for
Giannis To come to the Lakers. He's never even wanted to
train with him, he simply wants to beat him. LeBron can opt in
for 2021, he's not leaving.
IF the plot is to have all three, we are wasting our time; IMO.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think “neither” is not really a fair choice. So will we sign players to 3 year deals bf we aren’t strategically arranging cap space down the road? I don’t buy it. I think the FO is angling towards one of the other. KCP/Kuz/etc extension will be a tell tale sign. |
Come to think of it, if one badly wanted to be a Laker then we can trade their contracts to get that player. I don’t think we should restrict ourselves especially after we won it all with this squad. We can’t really count on cap space gonna net us our target because situations can arise and can change quickly. Case in point, Magic open up 2 max and PG had no intention to be a Laker and only Lebron did. I think it’s more ideal to do the Morey way as every season, it seems that there’s a lot of movement of marquee players. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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In terms of the 2022 free agent market, I think it depends on who we sign. It is not mutually exclusive. For example, if Grant is willing to take the MLE for multiple years, you lock him up for at least 3 years. However, for players like Gallinari or Baynes, do you really want to give them 3 years contract? Or would you give them 2 years anyway regardless of the 2022 free agent market?
For the 2021 free agent market, as some of you have already mentioned, it requires LBJ to take a pay cut in order to create cap space for a max player. I think LBJ would be open to discuss it with Pelinka. If LBJ refuses to share his comment about it, I think Pelinka should not work under the assumption that LBJ would take a pay cut. |
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gng930
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think “neither” is not really a fair choice. So will we sign players to 3 year deals bf we aren’t strategically arranging cap space down the road? I don’t buy it. I think the FO is angling towards one of the other. KCP/Kuz/etc extension will be a tell tale sign. |
I think there's a strong argument that even in the 3rd year, someone like KCP or Grant will have positive trade value, especially if they structure raises strategically. Thus I don't see them offering beyond two years as them necessarily forfeiting cap-space in 2022. My point is that they shouldn't fixate on it to the point that they lose out on quality players over contract lengths when they have a very reasonable window to win more rings. If an opportunity to acquire a star comes up at any point, it's generally good to quality players on reasonable contracts.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | Neither for me. Cap space is a cop-out to some degree. Beyond LA already being in a title window, Morey proved value contracts are more valuable than cap space because you can always move a guy on a good deal into space, often for picks. Even if you miss a bit, at worst it costs you a pick. In the meantime, your team is better and you are more attractive to free agents.
The trick of course is making smart free agent choices, which is hard. Fine to walk away and keep your flexibility if a good deal isn't there. But cap space shouldn't be the plan. |
There has been a lot marquee players nowadays demanding trade before their option year so building assets is just as important for trade . The one year rental is too much of a risk for teams to roll the dice. I actually prefer Morey approach since we are in win now mode and we already have a proven team. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think “neither” is not really a fair choice. So will we sign players to 3 year deals bf we aren’t strategically arranging cap space down the road? I don’t buy it. I think the FO is angling towards one of the other. KCP/Kuz/etc extension will be a tell tale sign. |
I think there's a strong argument that even in the 3rd year, someone like KCP or Grant will have positive trade value, especially if they structure raises strategically. Thus I don't see them offering beyond two years as them necessarily forfeiting cap-space in 2022. My point is that they shouldn't fixate on it to the point that they lose out on quality players over contract lengths when they have a very reasonable window to win more rings. If an opportunity to acquire a star comes up at any point, it's generally good to quality players on reasonable contracts. |
I'm all in for the 2022 plan, but you make good points that there are multiple ways to get there in 2022. They don't have to make only 2 year deals this off-season. That would be the cleanest, simplest method, but I agree about not passing on high level role players over contract length.
If a player's contract is a good one, then it will still have value and be moveable in 2022.
2021 is a waste of time. Given how calculating Lebron is, I doubt he'd make those MVP vote comments if he thought Giannis had any interest in joining up. Same thing with AD and the DPOY comments. They already know Giannis isn't coming aboard.
And after Kawhi snaked us last summer, Lebron isn't going to want to play with him. He won't put any trust in whatever KL is saying.
Better off building up this team for the next two years, then making a strong run at Brad Beal in 2022. |
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blackmamba08
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:04 am Post subject: |
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We all just have to forget about Giannis and move attention to some more realistic targets. He is superstar in this league and he will not join AD and LBJ to be second player. I can see him easily going to Miami or GSW to be the leader and main player.
Our focus needs to go to players like Holiday, Beal, maybe Devin Booker and so on. The guys who will accept to be second on the team. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years. 
I think we will run it back for the most part, but the MLE will give a bit of an insight into our longer term planning. Remember, we don't have as many unencumbered future 1sts due to the swaps, etc. It may not be as easy as we make it to just throw a 1st to get rid of a deal.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
I think we will run it back for the most part, but the MLE will give a bit of an insight into our longer term planning. Remember, we don't have as many unencumbered future 1sts due to the swaps, etc. It may not be as easy as we make it to just throw a 1st to get rid of a deal. |
Why are you concerned with the “next 5-6 years”?
Lakers are in win-now mode. They have another season or two of this until James retires and all the aging players on 1-2 year contracts come off the books. Then the rebuild begins.
Hopefully Davis is still a Laker as the centerpiece. But in all likelihood he will be a free agent in two years and be in position to sign elsewhere if he so desires.
Lakers are already too heavily invested in the “now” ... 5 years from now is irrelevant. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
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Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
I think we will run it back for the most part, but the MLE will give a bit of an insight into our longer term planning. Remember, we don't have as many unencumbered future 1sts due to the swaps, etc. It may not be as easy as we make it to just throw a 1st to get rid of a deal. |
Why are you concerned with the “next 5-6 years”?
Lakers are in win-now mode. They have another season or two of this until James retires and all the aging players on 1-2 year contracts come off the books. Then the rebuild begins.
Hopefully Davis is still a Laker as the centerpiece. But in all likelihood he will be a free agent in two years and be in position to sign elsewhere if he so desires.
Lakers are already too heavily invested in the “now” ... 5 years from now is irrelevant. |
LOL, you were always the one piping about the "next 5-6 years." I'm making an observation that a Luka/Giannis pairing would be a phenomenal one, ergo, which is in line with my general observation that chasing a 2021 max FA plan should not be a priority (and that we should be in win now mode).
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
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Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
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Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi. |
That’s the thing. Why would he be the 3rd guy? Lebron might still be an all-star player but at the age of 37, he won’t be as dominant. AD is more a finisher than a facilitator comparing to Giannis. I believe if Giannis does come, he will be the one handling the ball more than AD or LeBron.
The situation with Kawhi was different. Kawhi competed with Lebron in the Finals and he wanted to surpass Lebron in certain areas so he might have some rivalry feeling against Lebron. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
|
Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi. |
That’s the thing. Why would he be the 3rd guy? Lebron might still be an all-star player but at the age of 37, he won’t be as dominant. AD is more a finisher than a facilitator comparing to Giannis. I believe if Giannis does come, he will be the one handling the ball more than AD or LeBron.
The situation with Kawhi was different. Kawhi competed with Lebron in the Finals and he wanted to surpass Lebron in certain areas so he might have some rivalry feeling against Lebron. |
I actually think as LBJ ages, he will be more of a ball handler and less of a scoring attacker. I don't really see how LBJ (primary ball handler) with AD/Giannis really appeals to Giannis. He wants to be a primary ball handler himself (which is also a reason why Luka/Giannis may be an interesting idea to see if Giannis could play off ball).
My 2021 realistic option is Jrue Holiday. Gives us a guy who can still score 17-20ppg, play all NBA level defense, and can alleviate some ball handling duties. But I'm not sure I would be eschew going in all in right now if the right deals presented itself just to get Jrue in 2021.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
|
Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi. |
That’s the thing. Why would he be the 3rd guy? Lebron might still be an all-star player but at the age of 37, he won’t be as dominant. AD is more a finisher than a facilitator comparing to Giannis. I believe if Giannis does come, he will be the one handling the ball more than AD or LeBron.
The situation with Kawhi was different. Kawhi competed with Lebron in the Finals and he wanted to surpass Lebron in certain areas so he might have some rivalry feeling against Lebron. |
I actually think as LBJ ages, he will be more of a ball handler and less of a scoring attacker. I don't really see how LBJ (primary ball handler) with AD/Giannis really appeals to Giannis. He wants to be a primary ball handler himself (which is also a reason why Luka/Giannis may be an interesting idea to see if Giannis could play off ball).
My 2021 realistic option is Jrue Holiday. Gives us a guy who can still score 17-20ppg, play all NBA level defense, and can alleviate some ball handling duties. But I'm not sure I would be eschew going in all in right now if the right deals presented itself just to get Jrue in 2021. |
I am confused with what you said about Giannis wants to be a primary ball handler and then said he will be willing to play off ball if he pairs up with Luka. I
I think in 2022, LBJ will become a secondary facilitator and outside shooter because he loses the explosiveness to attack the basket. That's why I think Giannis fits. I guess our disagreement is on the condition of LBJ. You feel like he will still be one of the best players in NBA and lead this team whereas I think he will no longer be the top 5 players in the NBA and if Giannis joins, LBJ will become the 3rd guy.
Also would you want to use all the cap space on Jrue Holiday in 2021 instead of trying to get other top free agents in 2022? |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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There are at least 3 assets in hand you voluntarily give up in chasing a FA in 2021:
1. A MLE long term deal. With only 6 teams with space and LA a prime spot for ring chasers you may attract a top 10-15 FA depending on teams resigning their own. If a 2nd year PO for Ibaka or Gallo is a deal breaker on their end you choose the plan over them.
2. Expiring deals and chips for a starter/fringe star. Debate the names if you want (Green, Kuz, McGee, 28, THT, AB, etc...) but there may be a deal for a quality player rivaling the player they'd renounce everyone but Caruso and Kuz for.
3. KCP long term. I think he stays with bird rights (same with Rondo) but this may happen. Then you have the future bird rights on guys like AB or Morris next year I believe if Morris resigns. All those gotta go to have space in 2021.
Giannis is the goal, pipe or not but after that what? Is Jrue worth passing on KCP, Ibaka for 2yr, a near all star in trade and maybe a 2nd year for the BAE on a defensive wing? That or a humbled George? When we consider who we might land by freeing up space, we can't forget the assets we aren't using.
Last edited by fansincemagic on Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| This team cannot be taking anything for granted with Lebron/AD. You have to go for it every year you have them together. One of them turns 36 in a couple months. The other, as someone joked on Twitter (forget who), seems to have a career ending injury every game before walking it off. We've already pushed 5+ years of our future into the Now, you can't be sacrificing certainty of the present (like a Chris Paul trade) for the hope of the future (maybe Giannis will come!) |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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My specific plan for 2022 would be:
-MLE Ibaka offering a 2nd year PO, 2nd option Gallo
-KCP 2 yr raise with bird rights
-Rondo 2 yr early bird
-Offer the trade package for a stud guard, they likely don't find a match, take BPA at 28 and be ready at the deadline if LaVine, Oladipo, Hield, Fournier types become a match.
-BAE Morris is unlikely but give to Howard if the million bucks over his possible raise is a deal breaker.
-vet min a 3 named defensive 3 RHJ or MKG and a 1 dimensional shooter
Bradley/Rondo/J.Green(28)
KCP/Caruso/THT
James/Green/RHJ
Davis/Kuzma/Cacok
Ibaka/2 of Howard,McGee or Cousins
Davis is the man, James hopefully plays one more year and they sign LaVine in 2022 if he proves he can stay healthy. |
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