Shams: Lakers Requesting Career Ending Injury Application for Luol Deng’s Contract (League Denied It)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:19 pm    Post subject:

The Gr8 Lakes wrote:
Does this mean the Lakers would potentially have 5 million more to spend?


No, they are over the cap and likely want to use the full MLE.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
I think the Giannis ship has sailed for all parties. Unless Lebron abruptly leaves after this season, I can’t see those Lebron, AD, and Giannis all in the same team. Operating all in the same area.


Oh dont get me wrong, I am also skeptical if the 2021 plan, cause at least with Kcp to Bron to AD, you could follow the trail of krumbs Rich left for us. All we have to go on with Giannis is that he was trying to recruit AD to Milwaukee when he was asking out of Nawlins and that we brought his bro here and gave him a ring. Now let’s say we target Alec Burk this summer with the ntpMLE and/or throw money at Kostas, then maybe I’ll STOP questioning the hype we’re trying to have with Giannis’s agency.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OctagonBsktball/status/1318220357078257664

Also with Deng’s cap hit either Bron, AD or both had to shed nearly 10m from their max deals just to offer Giannis a max deal of his own. You would not only have to ask Klutch to take less money, but also be at the mercy of Bron to even opt out his final year to even begin entertaining a Giannis signing. But if Deng is removed from our books, Bron and AD could look at a modest haircut more favorably. We know AD has done it by waiving his 4.3m trade kicker last year to help bring in Kawhi’s max and we’ve seen Bron do it too to help Riles keep Wade and bring in Bosh for that team up. There is precedent in them shedding some other potential max to get a squad to their liking.

With all that being said tho, I’d rather they find a better 3rd guy that would help prolong Bron’s career while complimenting AD’s bigman skillset. Giannis is overkill, but still not the best pairing to those Klutch guys imho. Still if he were to come, I’m sure no Laker fan would complain about it haha.


Last edited by vasashi17+ on Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject:

MookieBetts50 wrote:
All Cupcake's fault, league should transfer this hellish contract to the Hornets.


Magic’s fault, Deng would be off the books if not for him.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Even with Deng’s stretched salary removed, we would only have about 7.5m in cap space if every player opted out and we only resigned AD.

Bron, AD, Green, Kuz, AC, THT, Cook’s 1m guaranteed, #28, 5 incomplete roster charges = 102.6m

So with only 7.5m in cap space to spend, we couldn’t even offer other free agents more than the ntpMLE of 9.4m. So why even apply for the Deng exclusion then?

It’s cause we will be hard capped at 139m if we use either the ntpMLE, BAE or both. So we have bird rights to KCP (full), Rondo (early) and McGee (early if he opts out of his current deal) and all of them can be paid their full max without really endangering the apron if we use both the ntpMLE and BAE.

Something to note is that if we sign any of our own FAs to a de facto 1yr deal (even with option or partially guaranteed money in the 2nd year of a new deal), then they essentially have a no-trade clause built into those deals. So if we run it back offering such deals to still play with enough cap in 2021 free agency and only interested in upgrading with new talent via the ntpMLE and BAE, then we limit ourselves this upcoming season by being unable to make in-season trades with nearly all our current players having no-trade clauses.


That 5 M could be the difference between having full MLE & BAE and just tax payer's MLE once we have paid KCP and Rondo. So it's worth a shot.


We won’t be tax payers.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

We won’t be tax payers.

this is inside info?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MookieBetts50 wrote:
All Cupcake's fault, league should transfer this hellish contract to the Hornets.


Magic’s fault, Deng would be off the books if not for him.

And without stretching Deng's contract we would have not been able to build last year's team and therefore probably no championship.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject:

You have to be someone pretty darn ... "unconventional" (let's call it that) to give that amount to Deng. Good job Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Lakers might have better luck amending that Brooklyn trade to have accepted Deng instead of Mozgov instead.

"Oh no, sorry, I stuttered, I said 'Luol' not 'Timmy'. Just my Michigan accent" - Rob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:40 pm    Post subject:

I'm not sure that Mozgov scenario even matters if the Lakers have their own medical reports. I think that's probably what is key. Like did Deng have Achilles soreness or anything in one of the Lakers medical reports?

The Timberwolves physical probably doesn't matter. He didn't play the 25 that would negate a medical claim. (He's not coming back to negate the claim.) His last game he sat out with Achilles soreness. If you can tie what you have in your records to that, you've got a chance.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:

We won’t be tax payers.

this is inside info?


he is just a troll. ignore him..

he needs to go back to playing monopoly which he was doing when we won the championship
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject:

SPO200 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
MookieBetts50 wrote:
All Cupcake's fault, league should transfer this hellish contract to the Hornets.


Magic’s fault, Deng would be off the books if not for him.

And without stretching Deng's contract we would have not been able to build last year's team and therefore probably no championship.


Obviously he's going to troll and poo-poo anything we say, but the Lakers were also Kyrie/Dlo/Kawhi-hunting (whether they ever stood a chance is a separate topic). They needed to stretch Deng (and also, for him to give up a ton of guaranteed money, so props to Lu as well) in order for a 3rd max contract slot. Yeah, they also had to dump Wagner & Jones & Bonga, but they got it done.

That max slot turned into DG, KCP, and other non-exception valuable bench/chemistry pieces.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:44 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MookieBetts50 wrote:
All Cupcake's fault, league should transfer this hellish contract to the Hornets.


Magic’s fault, Deng would be off the books if not for him.


what are those two in common? link to the 80's showtime era. don't get me wrong, i just don't trust any of those showtime era guys making any basketball decision for the Lakers. unfortunately the Rambii are still in the mix.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I'm not sure that Mozgov scenario even matters if the Lakers have their own medical reports. I think that's probably what is key. Like did Deng have Achilles soreness or anything in one of the Lakers medical reports?

The Timberwolves physical probably doesn't matter. He didn't play the 25 that would negate a medical claim. (He's not coming back to negate the claim.) His last game he sat out with Achilles soreness. If you can tie what you have in your records to that, you've got a chance.


That's all we're asking for! A chance Whatever helps this local, family-owned, small business compete with the Ballmers & Lacobs of the world. Even Fertitta's got the White House connections, what hope does Klutch & Jeannie have?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject:

In 2014 Deng likely had Achilles issues. So it's probably documentented in his Lakers medical records.

Quote:
From Bob Finnan of the News-Herald (via HoopsHype):

Deng has rebuffed all talk about an extension with the Cavs, and might want to sign with a contending team in free agency. Since coming to the Cavs, he looks like he’s either lost much of his explosion and athleticism he once had or his Achilles is worse than he is letting on.

And from Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News:

We’re surprised the Cavs did not move Luol Deng. He’ll be gone on July 1, no later than a minute past midnight, and despite an Achilles injury that prevents him from practicing on most days, he’ll be high on everyone’s free-agent list. The Mavs, Lakers, Celtics, Magic and Charlotte are all interested. Why not stay in Cleveland? Kyrie Irving doesn’t make players around him better and Dion Waiters is a me-first player.


Achilles injury may have influenced teams against trading for Luol Deng
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Last edited by 32 on Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject:

^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.


speak it into existance mod
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.


Makes the signing by Mitch and Jimbo even worse.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I’m not sure that Eric is correct about this. There has to be a medical determination of a career-ending injury. If the determination is made, and if the player “proves the doctors wrong” by playing at least 25 more games, then the salary goes back on the books. But there still has to be a medical determination that the injury was career-ending. “Career-ending” can include a determination that continuing to play poses an unreasonable medical risk. There is a Fitness-to-Play Panel for this.

As I see it, the big hurdle is that the TWolves considered him fit to play. He must have passed a physical. The fact that he played fewer than 25 games for the TWolves does not seem material to whether he was fit to play. Instead, playing 25 games negates a previous unfit to play determination. But there wasn’t such a determination.


I get what you're saying. But wouldn't it always be the case that a player would have to convince a team they were fit to play to attempt a comeback? In anticipation of that, the rule has a specific threshold of 25 games for when that comeback attempt nullifies the salary removal.

Deng last played for the Lakers in October of 2017. In September of 2018 he was waived. He attempted a comeback in 2018-19 which lasted 22 games.


This seems unlikely to me. It doesn't seem like the Lakers had any medical evidence of a career-ending injury when they bought out Deng, nor was that a motive for the buyout. On top of that, Deng agreed to the buyout because he wanted to play rather than sit, so it doesn't seem he felt he had a career-ending injury (otherwise why would he give back money?).

It wasn't a "comeback" in the sense that he was away from the game at all. There was a long stretch that Deng didn't get put into games, but he was still working out and coming to practice and prepared to play.

I don't know what the Lakers case will be but this just sounds like a Hail Mary to me.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.


Because this is simply about clearing money off the books and not preventing a player getting paid my assumption is that Silver will approve it as a favor to Jeannie thanks to her capitulation to help the new CBA get approved.

And this way Minnesota can benefit as well be filling the same provision which allows teams to save money during a recession.

One thing is for certain...if you dont ask the only answer you can get is NO.

Rob showing the world that his understanding of the cap is excellent. Trying to find money for all the players. That's a great look for us.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.


Makes the signing by Mitch and Jimbo even worse.


Exactly my thoughts.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject:

emplay about to go live on YouTube to discuss
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:

We won’t be tax payers.

this is inside info?


No, we are below the luxury tax limit so we won’t be paying the tax. Google it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Texas_Pete wrote:
emplay about to go live on YouTube to discuss


Too slow for my taste but then I listen to all podcasts at 2x speed
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I’m not sure that Eric is correct about this. There has to be a medical determination of a career-ending injury. If the determination is made, and if the player “proves the doctors wrong” by playing at least 25 more games, then the salary goes back on the books. But there still has to be a medical determination that the injury was career-ending. “Career-ending” can include a determination that continuing to play poses an unreasonable medical risk. There is a Fitness-to-Play Panel for this.

As I see it, the big hurdle is that the TWolves considered him fit to play. He must have passed a physical. The fact that he played fewer than 25 games for the TWolves does not seem material to whether he was fit to play. Instead, playing 25 games negates a previous unfit to play determination. But there wasn’t such a determination.


I get what you're saying. But wouldn't it always be the case that a player would have to convince a team they were fit to play to attempt a comeback? In anticipation of that, the rule has a specific threshold of 25 games for when that comeback attempt nullifies the salary removal.

Deng last played for the Lakers in October of 2017. In September of 2018 he was waived. He attempted a comeback in 2018-19 which lasted 22 games.


This seems unlikely to me. It doesn't seem like the Lakers had any medical evidence of a career-ending injury when they bought out Deng, nor was that a motive for the buyout. On top of that, Deng agreed to the buyout because he wanted to play rather than sit, so it doesn't seem he felt he had a career-ending injury (otherwise why would he give back money?).

It wasn't a "comeback" in the sense that he was away from the game at all. There was a long stretch that Deng didn't get put into games, but he was still working out and coming to practice and prepared to play.

I don't know what the Lakers case will be but this just sounds like a Hail Mary to me.


Deng wasn’t diagnosed with a career ending injury with the Lakers so the number of games he played afterward means nothing. It is a Hail Mary, worth a shot.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:45 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
^ It's the same achilles that he was sidelined for in Minny.

“I just knew it was getting worse,” he said. “It wasn’t one of those injuries if I played through and get treatment I could overcome it. It’s something that I needed to be out for.”

He had issues before the Lakers. And after the Lakers. I'm sure we've got a lot of documented medical reports talking about it while he was with us.


Because this is simply about clearing money off the books and not preventing a player getting paid my assumption is that Silver will approve it as a favor to Jeannie thanks to her capitulation to help the new CBA get approved.

And this way Minnesota can benefit as well be filling the same provision which allows teams to save money during a recession.

One thing is for certain...if you dont ask the only answer you can get is NO.

Rob showing the world that his understanding of the cap is excellent. Trying to find money for all the players. That's a great look for us.


I don’t know what extent Silver plays a role in this. It’s supposed to be independently reviewed. (But you know how politics are in this league ... so who really knows?)
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