Westbrook to the Wizards, Wall to Rockets

 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Westbrook to the Wizards, Wall to Rockets

Russell Westbrook traded for John Wall

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In an exchange of All-Star point guards, the Rockets agree to trade Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall and a lottery-protected first-round pick.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:02 am    Post subject:

Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden?

I wish we had the luxury of doing this during Kobe’s athletic prime. So many wasted years of hoping players would develop and playing alongside borderline NBA players. But then again, it’s a different game today than it was back then. Also worth noting that Houston had more flexibility than we did back then.

Although it did sort its way out for us in the end, you have to wonder what it would’ve been like to acquire a different range of players to see how they would’ve played with him, pre and even post-Pau Gasol.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden?

I wish we had the luxury of doing this during Kobe’s athletic prime. So many wasted years of hoping players would develop and playing alongside borderline NBA players. But then again, it’s a different game today than it was back then. Also worth noting that Houston had more flexibility than we did back then.

Although it did sort its way out for us in the end, you have to wonder what it would’ve been like to acquire a different range of players to see how they would’ve played with him, pre and even post-Pau Gasol.


Right?! Kobe's prime years wasted without a 2nd legit star. I often think about what could have been.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Wall has had a pretty disappointing career for someone as heavily hyped as he was coming into the draft. Analysts made it sound like he was the next LeBron.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:14 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden?

I wish we had the luxury of doing this during Kobe’s athletic prime. So many wasted years of hoping players would develop and playing alongside borderline NBA players. But then again, it’s a different game today than it was back then. Also worth noting that Houston had more flexibility than we did back then.

Although it did sort its way out for us in the end, you have to wonder what it would’ve been like to acquire a different range of players to see how they would’ve played with him, pre and even post-Pau Gasol.


Right?! Kobe's prime years wasted without a 2nd legit star. I often think about what could have been.

I think there were a couple of unfortunate things that may have contributed to it

1: Shaq - Shaq completed nuked our chances of doing anything significant IMO. I know that some value the fact that the Lakers are building a reputation as franchise that is loyal to their superstars, but in hindsight, we should have traded Shaq earlier. We waited around until he had more leverage and direction as to where he would go. By the time we actually traded him, he was calling the shots. It shouldn’t have come down to that, and it wouldn’t have if we traded him earlier. From everything that we now know based on how bad things were based on Jeff Pearlman’s book, It would’ve made sense to trade him right after the 2002-03 season. I know we ended up with Payton/Malone as our last shot, but I think they would’ve gotten better value for Shaq. But in terms of getting the best bang for the buck, the ideal would’ve been trading him DURING the 2002-03 season, although fans would understandably be pissed because we were in the middle of a possible 4-PEAT run.

2: Large contracts are more tradable today - One of the biggest obstacles getting rid of large contracts. Back then we had to take back Brian Grant’s contract. That was detrimental to us and handicapped us severely. Today, all you needed to do to get rid of that contract was to add draft picks or assets to it (See Timofey Mozgov). That was a terrible trade (especially considering LO ended up being a great 6th man, with no All star or All NBA appearances to show forth) but if we were to have that trade happen in today’s market conditions, we probably would’ve tried to get rid of Grant by attaching Butler and a protected #1 with Grant. That probably gets it done. But then again, Butler got us Kwame, who ended up getting us Pau. Large contracts back then were a death sentence. Nowadays, it’s easier to get rid of and if worse comes to worse, you can always trade your large trash bag for another large one, and keep on doing so until one sticks . For example, Allen Houston would’ve gotten traded for Michael Finley, etc., because they were both equally terrible contracts. Maybe the Lakers jump into the fray and get (a washed up, but still 2nd fiddle capable) player for Brian Grant? Again, way more common today than back then.

3: Kobe’s reputation - Kobe is cut from a different cloth. He’s not a LeBron where he is friends with everyone and actively recruits all of his buddies. A lot of what we knew and what was confirmed in Pearlman’s book is that a lot of people misunderstood him, especially early on in his career. I know he help recruit a few guys. I can think of one at least, Aaron McKee (or what was left of his corpse). I think what could’ve helped the situation was if we had been able to recruit more players. I’m not talking about stars, but those role players that make your team go. We know how important these role players are based on the roles that they played for this past championship team (Dwight, Rondo, Kieff). Just imagine if we had anyone (even remotely close to being) like that on those 2005-07 Kobe teams.. that would’ve been a huge help.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:02 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden?

I wish we had the luxury of doing this during Kobe’s athletic prime. So many wasted years of hoping players would develop and playing alongside borderline NBA players. But then again, it’s a different game today than it was back then. Also worth noting that Houston had more flexibility than we did back then.

Although it did sort its way out for us in the end, you have to wonder what it would’ve been like to acquire a different range of players to see how they would’ve played with him, pre and even post-Pau Gasol.


Right?! Kobe's prime years wasted without a 2nd legit star. I often think about what could have been.


It was just 3 years. Without the Gasol trade it could have been a lot longer. I do wonder how things would have turned out if Gasol became a Laker a couple of years earlier. Of course I’m just dreaming here.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden? .


The Rockets did win 65 games with CP3 in the first year despite him and Harden missing a combined 34 games. They just happened to run into the Warriors and Paul got hurt. Paul looked banged up the next year and things went downhill with him and Harden. I was surprised things fell apart so quickly.

Howard and Westbrook are really not great sidekicks IMO. They were super talented guys that wanted to be the #1 guy, not the clear #2. That’s one big difference between them and Gasol. Gasol could make a big impact and he was a much better team player.

Making Westbrook a sidekick is kind of like trying to make Harden a sidekick. Doesn’t seem like either player would be happy to be the #2 guy.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden? .


The Rockets did win 65 games with CP3 in the first year despite him and Harden missing a combined 34 games. They just happened to run into the Warriors and Paul got hurt. Paul looked banged up the next year and things went downhill with him and Harden. I was surprised things fell apart so quickly.

Howard and Westbrook are really not great sidekicks IMO. They were super talented guys that wanted to be the #1 guy, not the clear #2. That’s one big difference between them and Gasol. Gasol could make a big impact and he was a much better team player.

Making Westbrook a sidekick is kind of like trying to make Harden a sidekick. Doesn’t seem like either player would be happy to be the #2 guy.


Harden was a pretty good #3 guy in OKC.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:44 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
Howard, Paul, Westbrook, now Wall...

How many sidekicks are they gonna try with Harden? .


The Rockets did win 65 games with CP3 in the first year despite him and Harden missing a combined 34 games. They just happened to run into the Warriors and Paul got hurt. Paul looked banged up the next year and things went downhill with him and Harden. I was surprised things fell apart so quickly.

Howard and Westbrook are really not great sidekicks IMO. They were super talented guys that wanted to be the #1 guy, not the clear #2. That’s one big difference between them and Gasol. Gasol could make a big impact and he was a much better team player.

Making Westbrook a sidekick is kind of like trying to make Harden a sidekick. Doesn’t seem like either player would be happy to be the #2 guy.


Harden was a pretty good #3 guy in OKC.


He was still young and proving himself at that point. Nobody was picturing him becoming the player he is today back then. There was a good amount of people that believed he was going to be better then Westbrook but he took it to another entire level and is def. not anywhere close to that player anymore mentally and career wise.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:15 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake has not been posting as much, lately.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject:

They done. How long before Harden is out of town? Do that Kyrie/Harden swap and lets move on yall.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
They done. How long before Harden is out of town? Do that Kyrie/Harden swap and lets move on yall.


Then we will have seen every possible combination of the original OKC trio.

Durant/Westbrook/Harden
Durant/Westbrook
Westbrook/Harden
Durant/Harden
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:37 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
lakers0505 wrote:
They done. How long before Harden is out of town? Do that Kyrie/Harden swap and lets move on yall.


Then we will have seen every possible combination of the original OKC trio.

Durant/Westbrook/Harden
Durant/Westbrook
Westbrook/Harden
Durant/Harden


Good catch.

The versions with Durant seems to work the best, 1 finals lost and blew a 3 - 1 conference finals lead. More success than the other options.

I must say Harden + Durant would be a fun duo to watch.
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