Still remembered how giddy the announcers was when Session had a breakaway dunk in his first game ‘haven’t seen this type of athleticism in our point guard before’
Here's the best LG can offer for why this trade makes sense.
-Russ plays hard
-Give Lebron rest
Playing hard is like averaging a triple double... it only matters if it's valuable. Lebron has been in-game load managing since the 2013-14 season, his last in Miami. This is validated by his average velocity (which the NBA weirdly measures) and his defensive metrics.
Not saying I hate the trade, just expected more incisive justifications.
Russ is a monster on the boards and has the highest pace rating in the NBA. He is a great quarterback in transition, also he's still the most athletic and fast point guard in the game.
We are going to be difficult to stop in transition and we're going to get more opportunities to initiate it. That's something we've been missing.
I'll take a whack at it with the understanding that I hate WBs game and prefer a 2 star + depth approach as opposed to 3 max LBJ team:
* Lakers don't get hard capped in this trade as they likely would with other options.
* Lakers add a guy (regardless of how you feel about his game) that is a legitimate threat to beat you BY HIMSELF on the floor at all times instead of LBJ. Kuz/KCP/Trez even combined are not that. This SHOULD mean easier RS wins against lesser opponents for the entire team. Ending up in a "play in" game last year was embarrassing to the team and really not good in terms of playoff success.
* Lakers total commitment with WB's contract is really only 1+PO which matches the likely remaining window of LBJ. At the moment, Lakers 2023-2024 roster will only have AD committed (40M) meaning they have almost complete roster flexibility for 2023-24 and beyond. Unless a (dumb) decision is made later to extend WB, in and of itself, this move's maximum "damage" is only 2 seasons right now. Maybe fans wouldn't take that gamble but I can see where the Lakers (who are all about championships) would.
* Lakers gave up 3 players and a pick to obtain the above. Trez and #22 were not going to contribute in 2021-22 as it was looking like Trez was opting out based on how Vogel used him last year and rookies typically don't get any burn on championship teams anyway. So, I think most and certainly the front office would agree that the "on court" value of WB>Kuz+KCP.
* Not that I like or condone this philosophy, but history has shown that a 3 star team automatically draws other star vets that the Lakers otherwise could not draw. Happened in MIA,CLE and with BKLYN last year. BKLYN had 5 all stars in the lineup at one point. Right now, rumors abound about guys like DDR, Gay, Melo and maybe even Dwight or Love joining. I also wonder if there isn't real consideration by Drummond to come back on a minimum now that Lakers are odds on favs to win it all. (please, God, don't let that happen, he sux at any price)
* Impossible to determine if the trade makes sense until other moves are sorted out. For example, if the Lakers know they have a path to flip DS or other agreements that result in more depth or a better fit with WB, the WB addition makes more sense.
* Impossible to determine the effect on WB's game when paired with LBJ+AD. These are all human beings who are friends and this is the Lakers not OKC, HOU, WAS in terms of championships. No one can say that the WB we have seen over the years is the same WB we will see when on the Lakers. Now that could be good or bad, but the probability is more likely good than bad. It is an intangible but I am sure it goes into the overall decision amongst the players, agents and front office. A nuance lost on most fan (atics).
For me, I am not super happy ATM but am willing to give them (FO and WB/LBJ/AD) the benefit of the doubt to wait and see if this was a good trade or not before pissing and moaning about it.
Didn't know what to think when the trade was first announced, but after giving it a day or so, I'm not a huge fan of the move, but will remain cautiously optimistic. I remember how horrible Westbrook was in 2020 when we played Houston in the playoffs. There are clips of us literally leaving him wide open at the 3 point line so he can brick shots. Like no defenders within the vicinity. They were playing 4 on 5 on offense and I never viewed him as a threat. I always felt his game was a weak link for Houston and we exploited that. That series really soured me on his game (was a big fan of his after KD left the Thunder).
As many have already stated, I'm just not sure how he fits in with this roster. I am a fan of Westbrook individually, I was following him last year and always keep tabs on his triple doubles. I am rooting for the guy to succeed and prove me wrong. But unless he changes his game substantially in one offseason, he is not a good shooter, not a good free throw shooter, is ball dominant. He's a big name that looks good on paper, but as we all know that doesn't win championships. Vogel and the coaching staff have their work cut out for them.
I hope we don't have a repeat of the 2018 offseason, where we just went after a bunch of random names to put together a roster without considering the fit, and completely ignored shooting. I understand Westbrook, and guys like Derozan and Melo are heads and shoulders above someone like Lance Stephenson and Michael Beasley, but fit is extremely important as well. If we have a roster full of talent but are all square pegs in a round hole, not sure if we'll have what it takes to win a championship.
At this time I'll just sit back and see how we fill out the rest of the roster. I know Rob isn't dumb, but in 2021 we cannot expect to win a championship without spacing
Last edited by Shaolin's Finest on Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Saw this meme posted on the Lakers subreddit and it got a chuckle out of me. We’ll see if the Galaxy-Brain move pans out. _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011
How about Harden showing up to training camp looking like a fat Rick Ross to force a trade and then squandering the first year of his team's small championship window by subsequently injuring himself?
It was the only way he could get away from the owner that broke up a title team over $$ and had the CEO, GM and coach all quit to go work elsewhere in less than a year. If he didn’t act a fool he wouldn’t have gotten traded, after declining a record extension, so I get it.
How about Harden showing up to training camp looking like a fat Rick Ross to force a trade and then squandering the first year of his team's small championship window by subsequently injuring himself?
It was the only way he could get away from the owner that broke up a title team over $$ and had the CEO, GM and coach all quit to go work elsewhere in less than a year. If he didn’t act a fool he wouldn’t have gotten traded, after declining a record extension, so I get it.
Only 1 of those guys: Melo.
D39 over Hassan.
Shaq Harrison over Teague.
JJ should stick to his podcast.
Ariza... Oh how time flies. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4372 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
epic_ wrote:
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
Yeah, I couldn't care less about him getting a trip dub especially with Lebron on the team who does it much more efficiently when he does it. It's no doubt a fantastic move for the regular season as far as helping out Lebron or keeping us afloat if/when AD or Bron miss any stretches. As far as the Playoffs go i'm not a fan of this at all unless we somehow get at least a couple of knock down shooters.
When we get to the Playoffs, just like I used to do every single time we faced off against Westbrook the opposition will consider it a huge win when he takes any shot other then a layup all game long. The big positive about him going 150% all regular season is also awesome for the regular season but otoh it's why he's abysmal the majority of his Playoff history since he's usually always banged up and injured going into the Playoffs.
There's def. some positives though and i'm sure Lebron will benefit greatly from the conserved energy and hopefully WB and AD get some great chemistry going which leads to many easy baskets (if the opposition isn't just packing the paint all game long).
I'm trying hard to get more excited about it but the reality of it has me extremely leery about the the negative aspects that all seem to only get possibly much worse once the Post Season starts. I'll still root for WB like i'm his greatest fan and hope Rob can work miracles rounding out the roster with a few nice moves and getting some cheap ring chasers ala our star power recruiting which is very possible.
The other great thing is it's pretty much a 2 year experiment and then we'll be left with an abundance of cap space and AD hopefully still in his prime with a bit of an improved durability by then so we can reload.
I'm pretty much stuck in the middle at this point of not being sure what to expect but like I said above if Rob can fill out the roster nicely we can still very likely go toe to toe with anyone in the league.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
epic_ wrote:
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
So you're saying he carried middle of the pack teams to the playoffs by doing something only 1 other person has done in existence? _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject:
Me talking to people who are trying to find a way to downplay our HOF starting PG: _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
So you're saying he carried teams to the playoffs who had no business being there?
More like he's great in the regular season but gets exposed in the postseason _________________ Plan A - Schroder/Hield/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Plan B- Schroder/Powell/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject:
3baller wrote:
kikanga wrote:
activeverb wrote:
epic_ wrote:
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
So you're saying he carried teams to the playoffs who had no business being there?
More like he's great in the regular season but gets exposed in the postseason
You know AD couldn't even get to the playoffs every year "to get exposed"? Curry couldn't carry GS to the playoffs "to get exposed". Lowry could carry TOR this year to the playoffs "to get exposed".
Did Doncic just carry a team to the playoffs the last 2 years "to get exposed"?
Just say you hate WB even if he is a Laker. And save us all some time. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
LBJ has a 4-6 record in the finals. Know what that means?
He carries teams to the finals "to get exposed".
🤣
I'll be pleased if RW gets AD easy buckets in the regular season.
And LeBron can rest more in game.
Cuz when the playoffs come we all know .. well not all, but some of us know about playoff AD. I'm looking forward to RW playing with the best tandem he's ever played with in the playoffs. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4372 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:58 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
3baller wrote:
kikanga wrote:
activeverb wrote:
epic_ wrote:
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
So you're saying he carried teams to the playoffs who had no business being there?
More like he's great in the regular season but gets exposed in the postseason
You know AD couldn't even get to the playoffs every year "to get exposed"? Curry couldn't carry GS to the playoffs "to get exposed". Lowry could carry TOR this year to the playoffs "to get exposed".
Did Doncic just carry a team to the playoffs the last 2 years "to get exposed"?
Just say you hate WB even if he is a Laker. And save us all some time.
I def. see defenses daring him to shoot and watching him fail miserably year after year since he's hyper competitive and just continues to shoot the jumpers he has no ability to make with any kind of consistently whatsoever.
Pretty sure the majority of people here including myself do not hate WB at all, they're just extremely weary of his ability come Playoff time. There's a reason every non Laker fan I know has clowned the trade and are happy this is the big move we made this off season considering the other possibilities that were popping up. I don't hate it though, just not the biggest fan of it. I get the reasons the Lakers pulled the trigger so now that it's done i'm just hoping for the best but to act like it's some homerun trade is a bit much imo as well.
WB teams are 138-46 when he gets a triple double.
That's a pretty good record.
I actually don't expect him to be averaging near a triple double for us.
But hopefully these "empty" stats can lead us to wins.
He's 6-6 in the playoffs when he gets a triple-double.
The four years he averaged a triple double, his teams all got booted in the first round with a combined record of 5-16.
So you're saying he carried teams to the playoffs who had no business being there?
More like he's great in the regular season but gets exposed in the postseason
You know AD couldn't even get to the playoffs every year "to get exposed"? Curry couldn't carry GS to the playoffs "to get exposed". Lowry could carry TOR this year to the playoffs "to get exposed".
Did Doncic just carry a team to the playoffs the last 2 years "to get exposed"?
Just say you hate WB even if he is a Laker. And save us all some time.
Lol put westbrook on a team with just draymond green and wiggins and see how far that'd go. He barely made the playoffs this year on a 4 games under 500 team in the east. _________________ Plan A - Schroder/Hield/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Plan B- Schroder/Powell/Lebron/AD/Gasol
And basically all of these numbers were much worse in the playoffs.
This is a move a teenager makes on NBA2K because it has a sexy name attached to it. Unless, by a miracle, Buddy is somehow attached to this, this is a terrible trade.
Isolation, transition, P&R ball handling which are supposed to be some of his strengths are worse than 70% of the NBA. But didn't you get the memo? Numbers such as these are ignored here and treated like some undecipherable voodoo (bleep) intentionally designed to make Russ look bad.
Oh and don't expect replies backed by numbers, instead let these inspirational quotes allay your fear:
AD, Bron, AD and Russ are friends, surely they'll make it work!
... Russ is a former MVP, 2 MVPS = win!... TrIp dUb baByy _________________ Plan A - Schroder/Hield/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Plan B- Schroder/Powell/Lebron/AD/Gasol
@hype, serious? Every non Laker fan you know thinks it's a bad deal? Would you say it's over 10 folks you talked to? And are they big NBA fans or casuals? That's a pretty astonishing stat (depending on how many people said it).
A clipper fan I know actually thought it's a good trade. But who knows, you can never trust those guys. A casual Lakers fan I know doesn't like the deal.
But 70% of LG thinks it a positive trade. So I take solace in that. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:11 pm Post subject:
3baller wrote:
Lol put westbrook on a team with just draymond green and wiggins and see how far that'd go. He barely made the playoffs this year on a 4 games under 500 team in the east.
He carried a team that started Terrence Ferguson for 74 games to the playoffs.
While getting his P&R partner, Steven Adams, the best year of his career.
Wizards were decimated by COVID, 1st half of the season. He's the most recent EC player of the month. Alot of the teams he beat that month were fighting for the playin spot, his team eventually won. They beat GS twice that month. If it weren't for WB we don't have homecourt in that play in game against GS (the one we barely won).
You can go ahead and have the last word. I'm good. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
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You know AD couldn't even get to the playoffs every year "to get exposed"? Curry couldn't carry GS to the playoffs "to get exposed". Lowry could carry TOR this year to the playoffs "to get exposed".
