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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:03 am Post subject: |
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If a cricket can evolve to mimick a tree branch/a leaf or if a plant can mimick it's leaf to look like an insect... that means there is a way to naturally alter your DNA even if it takes a long time (hard to believe it's 'random' selection) |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | If a cricket can evolve to mimick a tree branch/a leaf or if a plant can mimick it's leaf to look like an insect... that means there is a way to naturally alter your DNA even if it takes a long time (hard to believe it's 'random' selection) |
Think of the covid virus. It isn’t sentient. It doesn’t think its way through mutation. Like everything else it mutates constantly as it replicates. Some mutations are beneficial to its spread and replication, and thus become dominant, while some are not, and die off. People focus on the beneficial mutations and grant them a “plan” because they don’t see the bazillion unbeneficial mutations that just die off. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16656
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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even-toed mammals were thought to be more closely related to each other than any of them were to whales. The new study challenges that idea. It says hippos and cud-chewing mammals like cows, sheep and deer are more closely related to whales, dolphins and porpoises than they are to other even-toed mammals like pigs and camels. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | governator wrote: | If a cricket can evolve to mimick a tree branch/a leaf or if a plant can mimick it's leaf to look like an insect... that means there is a way to naturally alter your DNA even if it takes a long time (hard to believe it's 'random' selection) |
Think of the covid virus. It isn’t sentient. It doesn’t think its way through mutation. Like everything else it mutates constantly as it replicates. Some mutations are beneficial to its spread and replication, and thus become dominant, while some are not, and die off. People focus on the beneficial mutations and grant them a “plan” because they don’t see the bazillion unbeneficial mutations that just die off. |
Exactly. And that happens concurrently with everything else in the environment so what is "beneficial" is always influenced by external forces that are constantly changing. The common example cited is moths in England during the industrial revolution. There was a species of moth that was light gray in color with occasional mutations of a dark gray color. The lighter moths prospered because they blended in with the environment. But as pollution levels rose and soot discolored buildings, trees and rocks, the darker mutation was then more conducive to blending in and they become the prominent mutation. As pollution declined, that dynamic shifted back to favor the lighter mutation. The change in the preponderance wasn't dictated by the moths mutations, it was a function of the environmental shifts around them.
So it's not at all about a plan, but a series of coincidences that lead to "happy accidents". _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: |
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joeblow wrote: | Haha, let me say to Larry Coon that I appreciate your responses to my post and the posts of several others here in this thread... eleven years ago. I don't know how I came across it right now, but here we are.
Hopefully you don't mind me responding so late to some of the points you made: |
Right now I do, yeah, since I have a major event coming up that I don't have enough time to prepare for -- especially to respond to an 11 year old thread.
I did glance through what you wrote, and without being able to take the time right now to be specific, I can just respond in general that you falsely equate natural selection with randomness, you poorly define terms, you have false premises, you give false dichotomies, arguments from incredulity and a number of other logical fallacies.
I also have very little motivation to invest any time in a dialogue that hasn't moved a freaking inch in 11 years. When all you points were addressed over and over (in this thread and others, and also in a whole bunch of literature that's available to you) and keeps making the same debunked points yet again, what makes you think I'm motivated to start from square one again? |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | Our understanding of the universe changes over time, and things we understand as laws now may change as well.
That being said, I don't expect this thread to stay open too long. |
12 years and counting. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Reading back through this thread, I’m struck by how you could exchange vaccination for evolution and start the whole thing up again and get the same results. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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joeblow Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 3075
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | joeblow wrote: | Haha, let me say to Larry Coon that I appreciate your responses to my post and the posts of several others here in this thread... eleven years ago. I don't know how I came across it right now, but here we are.
Hopefully you don't mind me responding so late to some of the points you made: |
Right now I do, yeah, since I have a major event coming up that I don't have enough time to prepare for -- especially to respond to an 11 year old thread.
I did glance through what you wrote, and without being able to take the time right now to be specific, I can just respond in general that you falsely equate natural selection with randomness, you poorly define terms, you have false premises, you give false dichotomies, arguments from incredulity and a number of other logical fallacies.
I also have very little motivation to invest any time in a dialogue that hasn't moved a freaking inch in 11 years. When all you points were addressed over and over (in this thread and others, and also in a whole bunch of literature that's available to you) and keeps making the same debunked points yet again, what makes you think I'm motivated to start from square one again? |
Eh, in some ways you misrepresented what I said, but I'll honor your desire not get into it any further here. |
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