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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | Apocalypse Now (pretentious) |
You're not the first person I've heard use this term to describe this film.
Sadly, there isn't much of a market for a deep look into the psychological effects of human beings engaging in warfare. What happens to people who are asked to do unspeakable things. How a decorated soldier like Col. Kurtz (Brando) feels about his life and the world when he sees children who have had their inoculated arms chopped off. How Sheen's character slowly descends down that river into hell, and how he is confronted with "the horror" head on. The film doesn't gloss anything, nor does it just stop at showing the carnage in order to shock us into the understanding that war is brutal. It goes into the heads and emotions of the soldiers. For my money it is the best war film ever made and I can't imagine another film eclipsing it.
It's why most of your typical war films are larded with explosions and battle scenes. Why easily digestible emotions like honor and pride are trumped. To confront the evils of man, the dark places we are willing to go to, the atrocities we are willing to commit is far less palatable for your typical film-goer. I would suggest another viewing. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32730
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | angrypuppy wrote: | Apocalypse Now (pretentious) |
You're not the first person I've heard use this term to describe this film.
Sadly, there isn't much of a market for a deep look into the psychological effects of human beings engaging in warfare. What happens to people who are asked to do unspeakable things. How a decorated soldier like Col. Kurtz (Brando) feels about his life and the world when he sees children who have had their inoculated arms chopped off. How Sheen's character slowly descends down that river into hell, and how he is confronted with "the horror" head on. The film doesn't gloss anything, nor does it just stop at showing the carnage in order to shock us into the understanding that war is brutal. It goes into the heads and emotions of the soldiers. For my money it is the best war film ever made and I can't imagine another film eclipsing it.
It's why most of your typical war films are larded with explosions and battle scenes. Why easily digestible emotions like honor and pride are trumped. To confront the evils of man, the dark places we are willing to go to, the atrocities we are willing to commit is far less palatable for your typical film-goer. I would suggest another viewing. |
I found the film pretentious for its heavy handed allusions to TS Eliot and Joseph Conrad, all the while aspiring to be taken seriously as art. Literary allusions are always best presented or expressed as metaphors, rather than as blunt instruments. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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^Not familiar with either author to the extent that anything felt like a "blunt instrument." What in particular was heavy handed? _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32730
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | ^Not familiar with either author to the extent that anything felt like a "blunt instrument." What in particular was heavy handed? |
The name of the Brando character (Col. Kurtz) was enough; they really didn't need clumsy moments like "The horror, the horror" or some half-baked photographer exclaiming "... I'm just a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas". With a minimalist approach, they wouldn't have transitioned from sublime to silly.
If you have time later (hopefully after Laker finals triumph):
TS Eliot: The Hollow Men, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Joseph Conrad: Heart of Darkness
You'll recognize the parallels between traveling the Mekong (Apocalypse Now) and the Congo (Heart of Darkness), which each passing mile an escape from what we see in civilized man... to our destination, the savage man (Kurtz). |
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rchanou Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5463 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | ocho wrote: | ^Not familiar with either author to the extent that anything felt like a "blunt instrument." What in particular was heavy handed? |
The name of the Brando character (Col. Kurtz) was enough; they really didn't need clumsy moments like "The horror, the horror" or some half-baked photographer exclaiming "... I'm just a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas". With a minimalist approach, they wouldn't have transitioned from sublime to silly.
If you have time later (hopefully after Laker finals triumph):
TS Eliot: The Hollow Men, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Joseph Conrad: Heart of Darkness
You'll recognize the parallels between traveling the Mekong (Apocalypse Now) and the Congo (Heart of Darkness), which each passing mile an escape from what we see in civilized man... to our destination, the savage man (Kurtz). |
I thought that was the point of the movie. "Heart of Darkness" during the Vietnam War. |
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phayze one Star Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 5389
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Juno and Superbad. Juno seems like it had great dialog and jokes but I was not a fan of the delivery. I did not find the lead character cute or likable in the least.
Superbad, for me, was a victim of its own hype and potential. Had some funny parts but did not have me ROLLING like 40 year old virgin did for example. Like Juno, it probably doesn't help that I was very turned off by Jonah Hill's character.
I also agree with Crash.
And Blair Witch scared the living bejeezus out of me. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32730
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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rchanou wrote: | angrypuppy wrote: | ocho wrote: | ^Not familiar with either author to the extent that anything felt like a "blunt instrument." What in particular was heavy handed? |
The name of the Brando character (Col. Kurtz) was enough; they really didn't need clumsy moments like "The horror, the horror" or some half-baked photographer exclaiming "... I'm just a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas". With a minimalist approach, they wouldn't have transitioned from sublime to silly.
If you have time later (hopefully after Laker finals triumph):
TS Eliot: The Hollow Men, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Joseph Conrad: Heart of Darkness
You'll recognize the parallels between traveling the Mekong (Apocalypse Now) and the Congo (Heart of Darkness), which each passing mile an escape from what we see in civilized man... to our destination, the savage man (Kurtz). |
I thought that was the point of the movie. "Heart of Darkness" during the Vietnam War. |
The problem isn't the point, which was obvious to anyone who had read Conrad (and to a lesser degree Eliot). It's the revelation and reference, which were handled clumsily. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | The name of the Brando character (Col. Kurtz) was enough; they really didn't need clumsy moments like "The horror, the horror" or some half-baked photographer exclaiming "... I'm just a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas". With a minimalist approach, they wouldn't have transitioned from sublime to silly. |
I suppose it's a matter of taste. "The horror" is the whole point of the film. Instead of finding it clumsy, I found it heartbreaking as a once proud man had descended into madness from the, well, horrors he saw. As for the Hopper character, I think he's there to reinforce the implication that Kurtz is God-like. We know that Kurtz is, of course, not "God" but he does hold a profound truth and knowledge that have acquired him followers. Hopper is barely in the film anyway.
Minimalist approaches are great for films that call for them. I just disagree that Apocalypse Now fits the bill.
angrypuppy wrote: | If you have time later (hopefully after Laker finals triumph):
TS Eliot: The Hollow Men, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Joseph Conrad: Heart of Darkness
You'll recognize the parallels between traveling the Mekong (Apocalypse Now) and the Congo (Heart of Darkness), which each passing mile an escape from what we see in civilized man... to our destination, the savage man (Kurtz). |
If I'm not mistaken, the film is loosely based on Heart of Darkness. I haven't read any TS Eliot so I'll plead ignorance on the other references. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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slippy Star Player
Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Posts: 5718
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | You're not the first person I've heard use this term to describe this film. |
In its day, half of the critics hated the last 1/3 of Appocalypse Now, and musos are still divided by Brando's Nietzsche-meets-TS Elliott rants and so on.
I think it's the greatest movie ever made. And I actually thought it was a "better" Heart of Darkness (though admittedly, I couldn't get past the book's noble savage racism.) :
I enjoyed the Appocalypse Now Redux a lot too. There, you really pick up the Heart of Darkness themes, which is presented in a very 1:1 sort of way, especially with regards to the French plantation. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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slippy wrote: |
I enjoyed the Appocalypse Now Redux a lot too. There, you really pick up the Heart of Darkness themes, which is presented in a very 1:1 sort of way, especially with regards to the French plantation. |
I enjoy Redux as a fan of the film but I always recommend to people that they see the original first. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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slippy Star Player
Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Posts: 5718
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: |
I enjoy Redux as a fan of the film but I always recommend to people that they see the original first. |
Yeah, Redux works better as an immersive experience for the fans. There's sweet, almost happy moments here and there between the boat mates that I think only Appocalypse Now fans would really take heart to. |
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TheBattleOfLosAngeles Sixth Man
Joined: 31 May 2009 Posts: 90 Location: Sitting in an English Garden Waiting for the Sun
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Slumdog Millionaire.
i watched all the other movies that lost to it and some that weren't nominated and thought they were better than this. _________________ Make the World a better place, Punch a Boston fan in the Face |
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