Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard - Live YouTube Trial
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:22 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
She dug her own grave in this case. She was a breathtakingly bad witness. She lost because the evidence didn't seem to support the lies that she was telling on the stand, not because of misogyny. I can't speak to why people on social media clearly rallied to him in the way that they did, but with as much support for #MeToo on social media as there is, don't you think it's a little bit strange that the sentiment on social media was overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly in favor of Depp, particularly when Depp was seen by the public as persona non grata in the immediate aftermath of what Heard said happened? As for the trial itself, a female judge was presiding, and both sides had a female as the co-leading attorney. She had every opportunity to get up there and tell her story.

This case was about someone who was caught in lie after lie on the stand, and I say this while acknowledging that Depp is no saint. Elaine's media tour after the loss was pathetic, too.


I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.

When the Dateline interview aired, Michele Goldburg from the NY Times commented that social media was driven by a "misogynist mob mentality". While I heard little, if anything, about misogyny, I clearly saw a mob mentality that seemed to become instantly ubiquitous, scrutinizing every word, every expression, and every emotion from Amber's side, where she could do no right and Johnny, no wrong.

I might add, although I was not particularly a fan of Johnny Depp at the start of this trial, I have come to appreciate what a truly gifted artist he is. His paintings and drawings, his breadth of work as an actor, and now, his songwriting and performing abilities in music, are all quite exceptional.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject:

I liked Depp in Brasco and Edward, but those are among his standard flicks everyone has seen. Dead Man of 1995 was a good indy movie w/ him in it, but not a really amazing character as far as his went. Lance Henriksen was killer in it, tho, like an evil version of Ace Hanlon from The Quick And The Dead of the same year. Beyond that, I've seen the Dillinger and Whitey Bulger flicks. Both meh, saw the Headless Horseman one once, meh. Not even sure if I saw the complete flick, memory is hazy. And Nightmare On Elm St 1. That's about it. I like Depp in general, but wouldn't call myself a Depp guy. If anything I thought he had more talent than the roles he liked to select, but that's his prerogative as the song goes.

I push back on the mob mentality of his fans. He does have superfans that are yucky, the ones who stood out there and cried at the verdict. Arguable how much they had an effect. However, there was a universal crush against Heard based on actual testimony and lack of evidence that fueled it. As universal as such a case could be. Media calling it a setback, etc, never admit to having watched the trial because it absolves them from having to admit that her case was a house of cards and her team was feckless. I've seen 2 articles where the writer said out front they didn't even watch the trial they're commenting on.

I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really. That was something else that "wokish" (lack of better or less Tuckerish word right now) commentators failed to recognize or admit. While the story was still fresh, those writers were making it into something it was not. What it was not was a barometer on credible (ahem) DV cases where one party (let's just call it women for sake of this) comes to court backed up with pictures of actual injuries, actual police reports, actual medical reports, and someone who takes their abuse serious enough to see a doctor so that any injuries could be documented for future use. Her team spent half their time showing pics of him passed out and a vid of him harming cabinets, etc, etc. They wanted the jury to surmise based off of those that Depp was violent to her because of drugs. Beyond that, it was a case that was silly thru and thru, rife w/ schadenfreude entertainment value. It's not going to be a factor in future DV cases with average folk in it. Laughable to imagine that being the case.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:41 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
She dug her own grave in this case. She was a breathtakingly bad witness. She lost because the evidence didn't seem to support the lies that she was telling on the stand, not because of misogyny. I can't speak to why people on social media clearly rallied to him in the way that they did, but with as much support for #MeToo on social media as there is, don't you think it's a little bit strange that the sentiment on social media was overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly in favor of Depp, particularly when Depp was seen by the public as persona non grata in the immediate aftermath of what Heard said happened? As for the trial itself, a female judge was presiding, and both sides had a female as the co-leading attorney. She had every opportunity to get up there and tell her story.

This case was about someone who was caught in lie after lie on the stand, and I say this while acknowledging that Depp is no saint. Elaine's media tour after the loss was pathetic, too.


I'm speaking to how the public behaved throughout the course of the trial. The rabidly obsessive vitriol and contempt was disgusting. The armchair psychoanalysis was maniacal. The over the top shaming, name calling, and idiotic rumor mongering ("she's doing coke on the stand!!!") bordered on insanity, and that's not even to mention the death threats.

What happened in that regard went far beyond what was warranted based on the happenings in the courtroom and it was a reprehensible reflection on the level of fan worship and sexism in social networking and the media. To say that any of that was warranted by what went on in the courtroom is ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:47 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.


non-player zealot wrote:
I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really.


I don't know how anyone could watch the public circus of reaction to the trial and deny that misogyny wasn't on full display. As for women being equally involved in it, as Trumpism has shown us, misogynistic tendencies aren't restricted to men only.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:53 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.


non-player zealot wrote:
I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really.


I don't know how anyone could watch the public circus of reaction to the trial and deny that misogyny wasn't on full display. As for women being equally involved in it, as Trumpism has shown us, misogynistic tendencies aren't restricted to men only.


This viewpoint is why men are still not believed in abuse cases, somehow it’s still an attack on men and “misogyny.” What was your opinion on Brittney spears rabid fanbase for her conservatorship dispute case?
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:00 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.


non-player zealot wrote:
I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really.


I don't know how anyone could watch the public circus of reaction to the trial and deny that misogyny wasn't on full display. As for women being equally involved in it, as Trumpism has shown us, misogynistic tendencies aren't restricted to men only.


Yet Camille Vasquez has become a rock star and is celebrated by the same people who challenge AH's credibility.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.


non-player zealot wrote:
I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really.


I don't know how anyone could watch the public circus of reaction to the trial and deny that misogyny wasn't on full display. As for women being equally involved in it, as Trumpism has shown us, misogynistic tendencies aren't restricted to men only.


Yet Camille Vasquez has become a rock star and is celebrated by the same people who challenge AH's credibility.


And racists love Clarence Thomas, what's your point?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:06 am    Post subject:

As a lawyer, the verdict was dumb and should be overturned on appeal. At bottom, her statements were not defamatory, i.e., they were literally true, and even if they implied Depp was an abuser, well, duh, it's because he was, as he headbutted her, amongst numerous other acts. (BTW, she abused him too, but that doesn't impact - as a legal matter - her statements.) She lost for reasons that had nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with why I hate the legal system - she's an unliked, crappy actress with a (bleep) face, Depp had an attractive woman on his team (who went to southwestern law school, lol, idiot), and he's a celebrity with a charming smile.

Read these statements:
Quote:
(1) “I spoke up against sexual violence — and faced our culture’s wrath.”; (2) “Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out.”; (3) “I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse.


Not one is a lie or made with reckless disregard for the truth. And even if the jury didn't buy her legal theory -- that minimal acts of abuse were sufficient to make her claims literally true -- I bet an appellate court would.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
As a lawyer, the verdict was dumb and should be overturned on appeal. At bottom, her statements were not defamatory, i.e., they were literally true, and even if they implied Depp was an abuser, well, duh, it's because he was, as he headbutted her, amongst numerous other acts. (BTW, she abused him too, but that doesn't impact - as a legal matter - her statements.) She lost for reasons that had nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with why I hate the legal system - she's an unliked, crappy actress with a (bleep) face, Depp had an attractive woman on his team (who went to southwestern law school, lol, idiot), and he's a celebrity with a charming smile.

Read these statements:
Quote:
(1) “I spoke up against sexual violence — and faced our culture’s wrath.”; (2) “Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out.”; (3) “I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse.


Not one is a lie or made with reckless disregard for the truth. And even if the jury didn't buy her legal theory -- that minimal acts of abuse were sufficient to make her claims literally true -- I bet an appellate court would.


Or the jury simply did not believe her: falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

Also, it is my understanding that an appellate court does not retry a case. They look for gross errors in the application of the law.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:43 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

I tend to agree that this was far more about credibility than misogyny.


non-player zealot wrote:
I saw loads of femmes making fun of Amber on anti-social media. It was about as 50/50 male/female as you could get, really.


I don't know how anyone could watch the public circus of reaction to the trial and deny that misogyny wasn't on full display. As for women being equally involved in it, as Trumpism has shown us, misogynistic tendencies aren't restricted to men only.


Yet Camille Vasquez has become a rock star and is celebrated by the same people who challenge AH's credibility.


And racists love Clarence Thomas, what's your point?


I'm certain some racists like Clarence Thomas just as I'm certain there is some misogyny involved in disliking Amber Heard. Personally, I didn't see it on a mass level and I was following quite closely.
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