Kupchak's Picks vs Rob's Picks

[nomoreshaq]

Kupchak

Marc Gasol - 13 year career. 3X All-Star. Superb pick.
Andrew Bynum - 8 year career. 1x All-Star. Superb pick.
Julius Randle - 8 year+ career. 1X All-Star. Superb pick.
D'Lo Russell - 7 year+ career. 1X All-Star. Superb pick.
Brandon Ingram - 6year+ career. 1X All-Star. Superb pick.

Luke Walton - 10 year career. Great pick.
Sasha Vujacic - 10 year career. Great pick.
Rony Turiaf - 10 year career. Great pick.
Jordan Farmar - 10 year career. Great pick.
Mark Madsen - 9 year career. Great pick.
Brian Cook - 9 year career. Great pick.
Larry Nance - 7year+ career. Great pick.
Ivica Zubac - 6year+ career. Great pick.

Von Wafer - 6 year career. Solid pick.

Darius Morris - 4 year career. Ok pick.
Robert Sacre - 4 year career. Ok pick.
Ryan Kelly - 4 year career. Ok pick.
Devin Ebanks - 3 year career. Ok pick.
Andrew Goudelock. - 3 year career. Ok pick.
Anthony Brown - 3 year career. Ok pick.

Javaris Crittenton - 2 year career. Bad pick.
Sun Yue - 1 year career. Bad pick.
Joe Crawford - 1 year career. Bad pick.
Derrick Caracter - 1 year career. Bad pick.
Ater Majok - Never played. Bad pick.
Marcus Douthit -Never played. Bad pick.
Chimenelu Elonu - Never played. Bad pick.

Rob
1. Lonzo Ball - 5 year+ career. Great pick.
2. Moe Wagner - 4 year+ career. Solid pick.
3. Svi Mykaliliuk - 4year+ career. Solid pick.
4. Max Christie - TBD

Overall Mitch did pretty damn well drafting considering MANY of those are late first rounders and/or second rounders.

[Laker4lifer4real]

Would be interesting to see free agent and buyout signing comparisons.

[governator]

don't they have the same scouting dept?

[Aeneas Hunter]

You really can't rate a pick in isolation. Von Wafer may have been a better pick than Brandon Ingram. If you pick someone around the middle of the second round, and they go on to have a real NBA career, that's a great pick. If the #2 pick in the draft makes the all-star team, is that a better pick? And how do you compare Wagner, who was picked late in the first round, has averaged 15 mpg for his career, and is playing for the min on his fourth team, to Crittendon, who was picked toward the middle of the first round, averaged more mpg than Wagner, played on three teams in two years, and then proceeded to destroy his life with a series of misdeeds starting with the Gilbert Arenas gun incident? You would have to say that Wagner's life turned out better, but how do you really compare the two?
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Internet Argument Resolved

[Barry Seal]

Turiaf and Wafer weren’t all that great of picks considering they passed on Monta Ellis and Lou Williams twice.

[ThePageDude]

[Batguano]

Overrating the hell out of a lot of those Mitch picks, especially in the "Great" category...

[Mike@LG]

[nomoreshaq]

[hype]

[RashardA]

How are Hart and Kuz not listed?

That said, Mitch would run circles around Rob.
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Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant

[HighlanderFil]

My version of your rankings, simplified to numbers out of 5

Marc Gasol - 13 year career. 3X All-Star. 4. Got us Pau and a couple of titles, best player of the remaining ones in that draft.
Andrew Bynum - 8 year career. 1x All-Star. 3.5 Failed to live up even nearly to his potential, but did win a couple of titles. Probably the best guy left on the board in that draft.
Julius Randle - 8 year+ career. 1X All-Star. 4.5 Looks better away from L.A. than he did in L.A. and by far the best pick at #7 in 2014 (although Dinwiddie and Jokic were picked in the second round, but Mitch isn't a magician).
D'Lo Russell - 7 year+ career. 1X All-Star. 4 Didn't really fit in all that well on the Lakers. Picked ahead of Devin Booker.
Brandon Ingram - 6year+ career. 1X All-Star. 4.5. Really solid pick and I'd love to have him back in L.A.

Luke Walton - 10 year career. 2.5 Terrible player, terrible coach and, by all accounts, not an awesome human being, either. I'd take Korver (went 51st) over him any day.
Sasha Vujacic - 10 year career. 3.5 I've got all the love in the world for Sasha, but he was extremely limited as a player.
Rony Turiaf - 10 year career. 3.5 Similar to Sasha, but he also had the misfortune of a bad ticker.
Jordan Farmar - 10 year career. 3.5. Picked ahead of P.J. Tucker, but that's neither here nor there.
Mark Madsen - 9 year career. 2.5 Let's be honest here - Mad Dog was a great cheerleader, not even remotely a good player.
Brian Cook - 9 year career. 3 And I'm being charitable here; similarly to Sasha his skill set was EXTREMELY limited. Leandro Barbosa and Josh Howard were both available at the time.
Larry Nance - 7year+ career. 2.5 Would probably have been a higher number had we actually been able to keep him.
Ivica Zubac - 6year+ career. 2.5 Same, but Malcolm Brogdon was picked a few slots down.

Von Wafer - 6 year career. Solid pick. 1. A complete waste. Picked immediately ahead of Monta Ellis.

Darius Morris - 4 year career. Ok pick. 1. Not much left on the board, though.
Robert Sacre - 4 year career. Ok pick. 0.5. Another Madsen, only somehow even worse. Last draft pick, what are you going to do.
Ryan Kelly - 4 year career. Ok pick. 0.5. Same as above.
Devin Ebanks - 3 year career. Ok pick. 0.5. Same.
Andrew Goudelock. - 3 year career. Ok pick. 0.5. Same as Morris.
Anthony Brown - 3 year career. Ok pick. 0.

(Honestly, we should have sold/traded that entire block of picks above. Complete waste.)

Javaris Crittenton - 2 year career. Bad pick. This one doesn't even deserve a zero. Picked ahead of guys like Jared Dudley, Aaron Brooks and Glen Davis in what, admittedly, was a pretty lousy draft after the top 15 or so.
Sun Yue - 1 year career. Bad pick. 0. See above re drafting position.
Joe Crawford - 1 year career. Bad pick. 0
Derrick Caracter - 1 year career. Bad pick. 0.5
Ater Majok - Never played. Bad pick. 0. Isaiah Thomas was picked last in that draft, two picks down.
Marcus Douthit -Never played. Bad pick. 0.
Chimenelu Elonu - Never played. Bad pick. 0.

Rob
1. Lonzo Ball - 5 year+ career. Great pick. 5.
2. Moe Wagner - 4 year+ career. Solid pick. 3.
3. Svi Mykaliliuk - 4year+ career. Solid pick. 3.5.
4. Max Christie - TBD

[Aeneas Hunter]

[HighlanderFil]

[j-dawg]

I can’t get onboard Lonzo being a “5” considering who was drafted after him. And I like Lonzo as a player more than that guy that came after him.

I don’t think we beat the Celtics without Bynum. Don’t regret the pick at all because I don’t think there was anybody else who would’ve commanded the Celtic’s respect enough for them to change their offensive and defensive schemes in a way that ultimately allowed Pau Gasol to operate. I don’t think Bynum “pissed” away his career because his career was defined by his multiple knee injuries.. I mean.. he had no control over them, so how was he supposed to piss it away? In hindsight, he was also damaged goods by ‘09 and ‘10 because he had been robbed of a lot of mobility and athleticism by then.

I don’t think Randle and Russell were better picks than Ingram. Not even close even if we judged them relative to where they were drafted and judging by who was on board at the time their names were called. Ingram is looking better each day Ben Simmons is showing up to games in street clothes (not that he needs any help from Ben to do so). I would argue that Russell’s skill set at OSU has never really been transferred to his NBA career for him to replicate the sort of success that made him the #2 pick in the draft. Whereas, when you look at Ingram, he has expanded upon his skillset at Duke at the NBA. Unfortunately for us, much of that took place as soon as he was traded from our team.

All in all, it’s tough to judge all of those picks based on the circumstances of each situation because there are so many variables. You can’t judge someone just based on the longevity of their careers or the championships that they have. For example, if a terrible 1st round pick gets a guaranteed 3 year contract, can we judge him as having a better career than a guy who also had a 3 year career, but worked hard and made it to the final roster of 3 different teams? Tough to judge that.

Also, if the objective is the win a championship, then shouldn’t all players who win the championship be judged differently than those who who were not on a championship team? Technically, guys like Farmar and Vujacic played their respective roles on championship teams.. would a player who had a longer career and put up better stats have been able to find such a role on the championship squad? Perhaps,.. but again, hard to say because there is quite a bite of extrapolated data involved.

I will say that our scouting department within the last decade or so has done well. No, not every draft pick was a home run by any stretch of the imagination, but there has been enough data to show a consistent pattern of success for late round, second round, and undrafted free agents. It is one of the few bright spots that Laker fans can hang their hat on and look forward to in the years to come.

[Aeneas Hunter]

[HighlanderFil]

[deal]

We could be here all year, second guessing picks but I'd be mindful
of what a "great pick" or "Superb" means; though that could be vague
as well. Asyou look further down and even into the undrafted, you could sometimes find other maybe better options. Examples;

Brian Cook or Leandro Barbosa?
Luke Walton or Steve Blake, Kyle Korver (ouch), James Jones....


As Highlander already mentioned, no real magicians out there...
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Lakers need to build a freaking team !

[Mike@LG]

LAL messed up picks from 2000 to 2004, and woke up around 2005 by taking a risk with BPAs instead of team triangle fits.

This is especially why I'm adamant about not picking by fit. So many passed up solid rotation players, or better.

Also, I think 2018 was "Magic Johnson's picks," not Rob's.

Although, admittedly, I don't really think Rob picks guys. It's the scouting team with maybe help from Klutch.

I also highly disagree with the subjective idea of "good pick vs great pick," especially when the draft depth of each class changes, and lots of teams wouldn't have kept a lot of those earlier Laker players. Nevermind that early on, there were usually a handful of guys better that went AFTER the Lakers pick, including UDFA.

Speaking of which, it's a good idea to include the bought picks like Jordan Clarkson and THT, and now Max Christie.
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[Eindhoven]

Why Kuzma and Hart are not on the list? Considering where they were picked, two great choices. Also Bryant was very good for a 2nd rounder.

As much as I like Lonzo, I can't say he's a great pick with Tatum as #3. It doesn't makes a lot of sense to judge by whom was picked later when we're talking about 2nd rounders, because many of these guys were complete surprises that went below the radar of the entire league. But, comparing a #2 with a #3 it makes a lot of sense.

Also, about Ingram, it was not a "great pick", it was the pick that 99% of the people would do, even Chad the bartender. I'm not saying he's not a great player, he is, but it was the most obvious choice.
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....

[Mike@LG]

[j-dawg]

I think it’s pretty good to get an All Star at the 10th overall pick if I’m picking at 10 and someone told me that my guy would become an All Star (even a 1x All Star), I’d feel pretty good about it.

Plenty of picks that take place before (and after) #10 don’t pan out. Again, I don’t think that’s considered a “bust” at all, especially someone who was injured like that. It’s certainly a disappointment, but I don’t consider that to be a bust. Now, if Bynum had been the 3rd overall pick instead of the 10th, we may be having a different conversation right now.

Anybody who was here in ‘05 knew that (outside of guys like Chris Paul or Raymond Felton, who were drafted high and totally out of reach) many people on this board would’ve been thrilled with Gerald Green or Danny Granger. Some of us pessimists felt that Mitch would draft Sean May… so we made it out of that draft in pretty good shape

[Mike@LG]

[venturalakersfan]

[j-dawg]