CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 12-13-22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:28 pm    Post subject: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 12-13-22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

The Bad Taste In Your Mouth This Team Leaves... We’ve kind of seen this all before.

The Lakers fall down big. Make a great comeback. Choke freethrows that could have won the game. Go to overtime and ride Westbrook into a loss. It’s a deja vu from hell and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

It was a great comeback by the Lakers down 20 points in the third. With 2 minutes left in the third, the Celtics had 88 points. More than 6 minutes later, they still had 88 points as the Lakers rattled off a huge run. The defense started switching more and making plays. The crowd was going nuts. The Lakers had a 27-4 run.

With 3:50 left in regulation, the Lakers had a chance to push the 13-point lead to 16, but LeBron missed a three. From that point it was all Celtics.

The Lakers led by 2 with 26 seconds left as AD got fouled trying to finish under the hoop. Once again, he missed big freethrows that could have given the team the padding they needed for a win. The Celtics tied it up on the other end. LeBron ran clock and settled for another three and missed.

In overtime, it was all Russ. He scored the first couple baskets on drives. Then it went downhill when he stopped getting downhill. They left him wide open on the perimeter and he fired away and missed again and again. LeBron and AD, both tired, settled and missed threes. The Lakers lost 122-118.


LeBron -- -- He had 33-9-9 in 43 minutes. Big numbers. Big minutes. There was a stretch where the Lakers were going for the kill in the fourth, running LeBron/AD two-man action. He hit a three on one. He blew pas a big on a switch and dunked. Then we really took the air out of the ball, sucking wind and it went downhill. Part of Russ dominating the ball in overtime was LeBron playing tried. Just a very familiar scenario and not sure I can really blame him. Dude is putting up huge numbers. At his age, of course he’s going to run out of gas and the offense is going to go to trash. The Stats: He scored 33 points on 14-25 shooting (3-11 from three, 2-4 from the line) to go with 9 boards, 9 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 4 turnovers and 4 foul sin 43 minutes. He was a +10.

Davis -- -- He had too much size for the Celtics. Again and again scoring easy ones over the top of defenders. Then missed the two FTs late in the game. In OT the Celtics were able to leave Russ and pack the paint a little more. I’ve got notes on just one shot, taking a three. Lazy offense by L.A. and they were outworked in OT. A lot of minutes. The Stats: He scored 37 points on 13-24 shooting (0-2 from three, 11-15 from the line) to go with 12 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 46 minutes. He was a -8.

Walker IV -- -- Russ, AD and Bron carried the team tonight. We needed more from Lonnie and he seemed to get lost in the shuffle. He had a couple of layups on the break and hit a corner three. We needed just a little more like he’s been giving us. Double digit scoring. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 3-6 shooting (1-1 from three, 0-1 from the line) to go with 3 boards and 1 turnover in 23 minutes. He was a -18.

Beverley -- -- He sank a couple of threes for the Lakers, but as the game went along we settled in on a different guard combo as he wasn’t really doing much. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-5 shooting (2-3 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 block, 2 turnover and 1 foul in 19 minutes. He was a -10.

Schröder -- -- Far too quiet a night. He missed an open three and got a couple FTs. Just wasn’t up to the fight. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 0-2 shooting (0-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 assist and 2 fouls in 19 minutes. He was a -15.

Westbrook -- -- He got the first couple buckets in overtime getting to the rim. They then left him open from three and everywhere else on the perimeter and he took all those shots and missed them. Again and again. He’d get another late dunk off a block of Brown (whom he blocked several times tonight). Hard to blame him too much in OT. He had the energy and LeBron and AD did not. I just wished we schemed better to get him into his sweet spots or downhill in half court actions. We just let the Celtics dictate the OT and paid for it. Again. That put a big stain on a pretty good night from Russ. For stretches, he looked like a star and was playing some impact ball. He joined the fight tonight against a tough opponent. I appreciate that. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 7-19 shooting (1-6 from three, 5-6 from the line) to go with 14 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal, 4 blocks, 2 turnovers and 4 fouls in 35 minutes. He was a -1.

Reaves -- -- There were some stretches in this game where he was very aggressive and making things happen. Then he missed on a 15-footer that he wanted a foul call on and kind of stepped off the gas from that point. Some sweet plays tonight. He had an up and under to lose his man, draw ADs, then fed him for the dunk. He worked off a screen and hit a leaner in the paint. He missed a floater, but follow tipped it in, just a great effort. Defensively, he was competing hard, challenging shots well. At times the Celtics just made some tough ones. Other times, give him credit for some stops. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-6 shooting (0-2 from three) to go with 4 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks and 3 fouls in 36 minutes. He was a +8.

Brown -- -- He’d score his only bucking attacking around a defender and flipping a layup in. Some good D later in the game and his size was helpful even if he did kind of disappear everywhere else. If the Lakers could upgrade their 3 and D and the wing with some more size, I think that would make a strong impact for the team. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 1-3 shooting (0-2 from three) to go with 3 boards, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 31 minutes. He was a +12.

Bryant -- -- Short minutes. He got a dunk filling the lane on the break with LBJ and also earned some FTs on a great bounce pass from LeBron. Again. Short minutes and we probably paid the price some later with our other bigs being too tired. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 1-1 shooting (2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board and no fouls in 7 minutes. He was +4.

Nunn -- -- He hit a three in his 6 minutes. Great to see. Then he had an awful possession iso’ing and airballing in the paint. Just not running any offense. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-2 shooting (1-1 from three) to go with with no other stats in 6 minutes. He was a -2.

Ham -- -- Key Moment: Take some timeouts. Maybe that the final shot of regulation where we settled for a Vogel-like long three from LeBron, could have been an actual play. Or maybe when they were clearly exhausted in OT, take a timeout to rest your guys and get some more focus. Just ran them into the ground again and OT looked painful.

Key Substitution: Our offense has looked pretty hideous in overtime in these last couple OT games. It’s been very Russ-centric. I’d like to see more play calling and a little more purpose in our sets instead of having guys on the floor winging it while exhausted. Something to think about, though, in some of these trade scenarios, it’s pretty obvious if Russ is going out, you’ve got to have someone coming back who can carry the load for LeBron for stretches. Additionally, we really needed a little more size and impact at the wing.

Key Stats: We went 22-30 from the line. Should have been 24-30 and a W.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:45 pm    Post subject:

11 seconds left in a tied game, and we have no closer, Ham didn’t take a timeout to draw up a better play. Didn’t even bother to play Walker (our best shooter) when teams were daring us to shoot. Brown missed 2 wide open corner 3s in the 4th too.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB, don’t understand why the team shoots so many of threes.

I hope the effort from the team eliminates the notion from not only Pelinka/Jeanie but also from fans that “there isn’t anything that can be done”. A series of 5 unfortunate losses to Foston/Philly/Indy/Sactowm/Portland that looked as if the Lakers were going to win…applied to the current record as wins…would put this team in 4th place in the West. They didn’t win a so can’t act as if they did, but with an upgraded roster it’s reasonable to expect 5 more wins.

Cleve, (tied mid-way the through the 4th), Minny (down 80-83 mid-way through the 4th), Clips (down 4 late in 4th), Phoenix (down 5 midway through 4th) are 4 other games making the total of 9 games and that possibly could have been different with a better constructed roster…reasonable to expect 5 or 6 wins…making the Lakers a top 4 team in the West. Just winning 7 of 9 would add to a win total to make them tied for 1st.

None of us know for sure…it’s all speculation…but it look like this team could compete and that there is something that could be done trade wise…should have already been done…that could place the Lakers in contention.
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Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Glad we got Lonzo to break all of Magic Johnson's Laker records instead of Tatum.

How do we not take it to the rack with 13 seconds and either get a lob/layup attempt or Free Throws? Instead, step back game losing 3 from Lebron
How many times have we seen that before? Pathetic.

Can't wait til he's off the team.

Not my Lakers.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:20 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
Glad we got Lonzo to break all of Magic Johnson's Laker records instead of Tatum.

How do we not take it to the rack with 13 seconds and either get a lob/layup attempt or Free Throws? Instead, step back game losing 3 from Lebron
How many times have we seen that before? Pathetic.

Can't wait til he's off the team.

Not my Lakers.


It’s reasonable to be upset with boneheaded plays from LeBron, Westbrook, and yes AD missing free throws to lose 2 games, back to back. But if we’re also reasonable about the total game of those 3, we see that their production is above expectations going into the season such that the blame is squarely on the poor roster construction and that’s on Rob/Jeanie.

8 vet minimums plus Bev/Nunn. With those 10 players on a 14 man roster the team has no help for AD/LBJ/WB/Walker. Reaves is the only one of the vet mins that plays like he even belongs in the league.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:28 pm    Post subject:

Thank you much, DB!

While acknowledging that the Lakers don't have a lot of offensive weapons, this stretch of games has solidified some thoughts, for me.

Something that I commented on weeks ago, that I thought was going to be a problem...and has proven true...is Ham's overreliance on AD/LeBron/Russ. When LeBron was out, and it was just AD/Russ and role players, Ham was forced to be creative, and looked good (short sample size, i know). Lonnie, and Reaves, especially showed that they could be solid contributors to the Lakers. The offense relied on movement, of ball and players, whether AD was on the floor or not. And, during this time, Russ was doing Russ things, while being smart with his shot selection. But, once LeBron got healthy, this all went out the window. I'm not blaming LeBron. Of course, touches/looks are going to change. But, my hope was the style of unselfish team play would continue, with AD as our anchor. But, too many times I've seen stagnant half court offense. Perimeter iso's, leading to bad shots or bad turnovers. And, Russ's smart selection has gone out the window, too.

As noted above, in this game, Walker played for a little over 23 minutes, and had only 6 shots. Reaves played more minutes, at almost 36 minutes, and had the same amount of shot attempts as Lonnie. Those are two of the Lakers better offensive players, after our stars. Russ took 6 3's, and made one. LeBron took 11 3's, and made three. A lot of those shots were bad shots, as the byproduct of bad offense.

Ham is a rookie head coach. I'm really hoping he's learning. But, what's really worrying is, I don't see any coaching improvement from game to game. I hear the same "play hard" platitudes. And, I see the same lack of offensive organization, and odd lineups/subs. It's been proven that the Lakers aren't going to win games by playing an aging LeBron massive minutes. AD, and Russ...while younger...are being overloaded as well. I know Ham is feeling pressured to win games, and maybe that accounts for some of his choices. But, when you see something isn't working, only fools keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

So far, Ham has shown an inability to do more, with less. Meaning, trying to get more out of Reaves, Walker, Bryant, and Schroder. Putting them in positions to contribute, so our stars don't have to carry as much. This is my worry, in regards to Ham, going forward. And, this was why I asked my question about Reaves, on the last game analysis post. I think Reaves inconsistency has more to than 2nd year player adjustments. Same with Walker, and others.

Our role players may not be idea. But, when they're frozen out on offense, you assuring that they won't/can't contribute. Especially when it matters, in the crunch.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:30 pm    Post subject:

Lebron just ignoring Smart to needlessly double Brown on the perimeter when AD had him killed me. Gave up a wide open 3 Smart swished. Huge.

AD missing two fts. Huge.

I hate this (bleep) team. Just GIVING AWAY WINS FOR NO (bleep) REASON.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:10 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Lebron just ignoring Smart to needlessly double Brown on the perimeter when AD had him killed me. Gave up a wide open 3 Smart swished. Huge.

AD missing two fts. Huge.

I hate this (bleep) team. Just GIVING AWAY WINS FOR NO (bleep) REASON.


I agree, those were huge, and costly blunders. But, good teams find ways to win. Other teams find ways to lose. We're an "other" team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:15 am    Post subject:

Copied and pasted from what I said in the game thread:

It's clear watching this game that we need one or two more pieces at the forward positions, but if we had them, we could be really good.

We're not an old team. In fact, we're a pretty young team overall. It's just that LeBron is almost 38 and needs more offensive support, both in terms of ball-handlers in the open court (which we may have) and 3-point shooters.

Troy Brown Jr. is a zero-impact player. When JTA comes back I'd give him a shot to take Brown's place. But we may need a PF more than we need a SF.

We seem to have the structure to be a very good team, if not a contender. We just don't have enough pieces.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:16 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Lebron just ignoring Smart to needlessly double Brown on the perimeter when AD had him killed me. Gave up a wide open 3 Smart swished. Huge.

AD missing two fts. Huge.

I hate this (bleep) team. Just GIVING AWAY WINS FOR NO (bleep) REASON.


Uggh. Yeah forgot to mention that one. I chalk it up to being exhausted. He just stood and watched from the other side of the court as Smart relocated.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:47 am    Post subject:

Why can't Lakers defend PnR? One tight pick and it's an uncontested shot.
Not even starting with wide open threes they give away.

And then suddenly they can.
Must be an effort thing, then. Really annoying.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:14 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB.

As mentioned in other posts, this is what you get with this roster and $47 mil of cap space filled by a player who simply cannot be relied upon for wide open jumpers. Numerous trade proposals / rumors / what have you were thrown out there and my guess is, take your pick of the litter - ones where Russ stayed, ones where he left - the incoming player likely is the difference in a number of these games. I'd even say the Lakers record is very likely the opposite of what it is now, and who knows how the team looks? We will never know, those '27 and '29 picks just won't be dealt.

Putting the above aside, you could see some of Kobe's game with Tatum. That turn around jumper was just a gut wrencher, and Tatum leaned into his mid-range game to get his team the W...similar to a certain Mr. Bryant we had here.

Oh, well.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:49 am    Post subject:

Ugh. (bleep) this team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:14 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!!! Best D of the season during that long stretch (it was incredible). Hero ball (from LJ to Russ) cost us the game as it takes a life of its own. That is up to Ham to put a stop to it. It is almost like a football team going to the prevent D when they have an opponent by the neck.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:15 am    Post subject:

Personally, this loss broke me more than any other. LeBron played his ass off this game, then took his foot off the gas in the last 2-3 minutes. He'd look to feed AD, but Russ' man treated him like Ben Simmons and did everything possible to prevent an entry pass. LeBron, unlike previous seasons, isn't hitting a single crunch time three. You can tell he's frustrated.

If we run set plays down the stretch, this game is likely a W. Everyone but LeBron seems to understand that, but I get that he was likely exhausted.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:32 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
11 seconds left in a tied game, and we have no closer, Ham didn’t take a timeout to draw up a better play. Didn’t even bother to play Walker (our best shooter) when teams were daring us to shoot. Brown missed 2 wide open corner 3s in the 4th too.


Lebron and AD are closers.
Need to not have them log over 40 mins by games end.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:43 am    Post subject:

obviously the loss sucks. Even worse it was against them but that was a helluva a fun game to watch in the second half. Clearly we can nit pick everyone but everyone has in game fails, Tatum did, Brown did, it was just that ours were at the absolute worst time.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:06 am    Post subject:

Weird thing is the Cs are a tired team on a 2nd night of a B2B. They gave us the game and their energy could be sensed was not the same in the 2nd half.

Yet we just didn't close with the right energy and execution. Almost like we were the team that had played the night before. OT and late 4th we looked out of it.

One of it is that Lebron's minutes 43 min. You'd like to have Lebron at 28sh going into the last 6 min of the game. I feel part of our late game issues is that we rely way too much on stars and don't have enough depth/reliable other resources. At this stage of his career, Bron should not be playing 43 min RS games. No matter what the situation is. To manage these minutes, what does Bron do? Lazy offense.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:29 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Weird thing is the Cs are a tired team on a 2nd night of a B2B. They gave us the game and their energy could be sensed was not the same in the 2nd half.

Yet we just didn't close with the right energy and execution. Almost like we were the team that had played the night before. OT and late 4th we looked out of it.

One of it is that Lebron's minutes 43 min. You'd like to have Lebron at 28sh going into the last 6 min of the game. I feel part of our late game issues is that we rely way too much on stars and don't have enough depth/reliable other resources. At this stage of his career, Bron should not be playing 43 min RS games. No matter what the situation is. To manage these minutes, what does Bron do? Lazy offense.

all true but the Celtics are arguably the best team in the league. They got smoked the night before so it wasn't the usual wear and tear. Tatum is an MVP candidate. everything had to go right. not most of everything. we win against most teams, just not the best team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject:

First time in a long time I am ashamed to be a Laker fan. I will always cheer for the Lakers but these losses make me ashamed of the team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:17 am    Post subject:

Shaber wrote:
Why can't Lakers defend PnR? One tight pick and it's an uncontested shot.
Not even starting with wide open threes they give away.

And then suddenly they can.
Must be an effort thing, then. Really annoying.


Drop coverage is our default on those.

I thought we did a much better job later in the game getting through picks or switching with higher defenders.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:21 am    Post subject:

The 2019-20 team was the first team in NBA history to close out every lead going into the 4Q. 57-0

Crazy that we went from that to the crunch time team of this season, which is ~28th in the league last I checked.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject:

Shaber wrote:
Why can't Lakers defend PnR? One tight pick and it's an uncontested shot.
Not even starting with wide open threes they give away.

And then suddenly they can.
Must be an effort thing, then. Really annoying.



Hedging (what we did in 2020) or switching (last night during run). Seems to work better for Bron

Drop with the Big

Passive Bron hiding on weak side doesn’t work

It’s essentially a “two drop” coverage and leading to wide open corner 3s every time

Bron isn’t getting to the corner 3

A guy like Kyle Kuzma could

Ask Bron to switch and muscle up on a Big 4 or 5. He can definitely do that better than hide on weak side “hoping” the corner 3 doesn’t go in
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject:

sonic the laker wrote:

So far, Ham has shown an inability to do more, with less. Meaning, trying to get more out of Reaves, Walker, Bryant, and Schroder. Putting them in positions to contribute, so our stars don't have to carry as much. This is my worry, in regards to Ham, going forward. And, this was why I asked my question about Reaves, on the last game analysis post. I think Reaves inconsistency has more to than 2nd year player adjustments. Same with Walker, and others.

Our role players may not be idea. But, when they're frozen out on offense, you assuring that they won't/can't contribute. Especially when it matters, in the crunch.


Yeah, coaching definitely needs to stand up and get the role players more involved down the stretch. I think for other portions of the game, it's got to be on the role players to find their moments and be aggressive. Clearly, the floor leaders, coaches and the role players themselves aren't coming together to provide a well-balance mix late in games. There was a big vacuum of energy last night and we didn't put any trust into them offensively. Just went to the same ole stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
The 2019-20 team was the first team in NBA history to close out every lead going into the 4Q. 57-0

Crazy that we went from that to the crunch time team of this season, which is ~28th in the league last I checked.

Lebron was a closer back then, and he is more of a "loser" this year. father time is slowing him down.
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