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Rubin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:18 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


The Nets had the 2nd best record before KD went down. You don’t think swapping Russ for Kyrie and giving LeBron/AD all that spacing, let alone the explosive scoring punch, would put the Lakers in a similar position to win a ton of games and be a serious championship threat?

The Nets won 12 games in a row when they were rolling and 16-1 over 17 games. The Lakers will possibly play three more games before any traded players join the team. It’s possible that the Lakers could finish 20-6 over the final 26 games if they’re able to successfully swap Russ for shooting (another idea is Russ for FVV and GTJ).


Oh his skillset and talent is tantalizing on paper. I get why you guys want him. Just like the Celtics thought adding him to all their guys was going to put them over the top. Just like Brooklyn thought him and KD would be unstoppable. But in the end it was a lot of hype and Kyrie just (bleep) them all over. Just like he’s destroying Brooklyn’s season now. He doesn’t care about anyone but Kyrie. That’s what you’re signing up for.


No disagreement. This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
Kyrie is chaotic, problematic, and relentlessly dramatic.

Sounds exactly like the type of player that the Lakers have never shied away from.


But I still stand by the necessity to swap Russ for shooting/spacing. Whether it's FVV/GTJ or Kyrie.


I agree, particularly with the Rui trade, Russ has to go. The FVV/GTJ option is just one option (assuming it’s a real option) that is more attractive than being the next Kyrie sucker team.


That’s an awfully big assumption. There is ZERO evidence to indicate we have the pieces needed to acquire both those guys.

You can’t be a hardcore pragmatist about Kyrie while living in fantasyland about “other options”. Intellectually inconsistent.
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ArminNBA
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:19 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:

Oh his skillset and talent is tantalizing on paper. I get why you guys want him. Just like the Celtics thought adding him to all their guys was going to put them over the top. Just like Brooklyn thought him and KD would be unstoppable. But in the end it was a lot of hype and Kyrie just (bleep) them all over. Just like he’s destroying Brooklyn’s season now. He doesn’t care about anyone but Kyrie. That’s what you’re signing up for.


No disagreement. This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
Kyrie is chaotic, problematic, and relentlessly dramatic.

Sounds exactly like the type of player that the Lakers have never shied away from.


But I still stand by the necessity to swap Russ for shooting/spacing. Whether it's FVV/GTJ or Kyrie.


I agree, particularly with the Rui trade, Russ has to go. The FVV/GTJ option is just one option (assuming it’s a real option) that is more attractive than being the next Kyrie sucker team.


I feel where you're at, but I'm much more willing to take the risk with Kyrie than you. The LeBron/Kyrie reunion is just too tantalizing, to steal your word. But if it ends up in another Kyrie disaster, I would not be surprised at all. Could it end up like the 2014-2017 Cavs run 2.0? I think that's also very possible.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:19 pm    Post subject:

nomoreshaq wrote:
do you guys trade:

Bev
Lonnie
Russ
2 FRP Unprotected
2 SRP

for

GTJ/Kyrie

AD/Bryant/DJ
LBJ/Gabriel/JTA
Rui/TBJ
GTJ/Reaves/Christie
Kyrie/Dennis

Anyone to sign off for the min?


This is pretty close to what I suggested the Lakers could try to do, other than not including the 2 SRP as well. As for your last question there, we could still try to be active on the buyout market if we saw an opportunity to add a big or a wing.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:20 pm    Post subject:

Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


The Nets had the 2nd best record before KD went down. You don’t think swapping Russ for Kyrie and giving LeBron/AD all that spacing, let alone the explosive scoring punch, would put the Lakers in a similar position to win a ton of games and be a serious championship threat?

The Nets won 12 games in a row when they were rolling and 16-1 over 17 games. The Lakers will possibly play three more games before any traded players join the team. It’s possible that the Lakers could finish 20-6 over the final 26 games if they’re able to successfully swap Russ for shooting (another idea is Russ for FVV and GTJ).


Oh his skillset and talent is tantalizing on paper. I get why you guys want him. Just like the Celtics thought adding him to all their guys was going to put them over the top. Just like Brooklyn thought him and KD would be unstoppable. But in the end it was a lot of hype and Kyrie just (bleep) them all over. Just like he’s destroying Brooklyn’s season now. He doesn’t care about anyone but Kyrie. That’s what you’re signing up for.


No disagreement. This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
Kyrie is chaotic, problematic, and relentlessly dramatic.

Sounds exactly like the type of player that the Lakers have never shied away from.


But I still stand by the necessity to swap Russ for shooting/spacing. Whether it's FVV/GTJ or Kyrie.


I agree, particularly with the Rui trade, Russ has to go. The FVV/GTJ option is just one option (assuming it’s a real option) that is more attractive than being the next Kyrie sucker team.


That’s an awfully big assumption. There is ZERO evidence to indicate we have the pieces needed to acquire both those guys.

You can’t be a hardcore pragmatist about Kyrie while living in fantasyland about “other options”. Intellectually inconsistent.


I don’t know if it’s a real option or not, as I said. Just as you don’t know what the options for Kyrie are.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:21 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?

Yes, he's increasing Brooklyn's chances. Let's not go overboard. If Brooklyn had Russ right now in Kyrie's place, their chances would be 0%.


You wanna place a bet right now on Brooklyn’s title chances?
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Balto
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:22 pm    Post subject:

Karmaloop wrote:
Balto wrote:
How about LeVine to the Nets? Would have add a filler contract from the Bulls but basically:

Bulls get:
WB
Both Lakers picks

Nets get:
LeVine

Lakers get:
Kyrie

Something like this.


LaVine has substantally more value than Kyrie Irving does IMO.


Ok how about this:

Bulls get: Still under tax line!
WB
Harris
Both Lakers picks
1 Nets 1st round pick

Nets get:
LeVine
PBev

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DeRozan

AD
Rui
Bron
DeRozan
Kyrie
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:25 pm    Post subject:

Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?


What does that have to do with my very specific question of whether swapping Kyrie for Russ on this specific team would improve their title chances? Seems like a silly non-sequitur intended to dodge my question, but sure, I’ll play:

Prior to KD getting injured, they were 27-13, good for second in the East. Kyrie played a significant role in there early season success. Since then, they’ve managed to stay afloat at the 4-seed. So I’d say it’s going pretty well from a basketball perspective. Certainly miles better than the Lakers.

How about you answer my question now. Or will that not suit your narrative?

BTW - go back and reread my original post. I don’t love the idea of acquiring Kyrie. It just happens to be the best of several subpar options given the crap situation Jeanie and Rob have the Lakers in.


So you like Brooklyn’s chances? You feel Kyrie is advancing their odds right now?

I understand the frustration with our situation. I’m frustrated with it too. It’s important in times like these to not do self-destructive things out of frustration that we will regret.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:25 pm    Post subject:

Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


The Nets had the 2nd best record before KD went down. You don’t think swapping Russ for Kyrie and giving LeBron/AD all that spacing, let alone the explosive scoring punch, would put the Lakers in a similar position to win a ton of games and be a serious championship threat?

The Nets won 12 games in a row when they were rolling and 16-1 over 17 games. The Lakers will possibly play three more games before any traded players join the team. It’s possible that the Lakers could finish 20-6 over the final 26 games if they’re able to successfully swap Russ for shooting (another idea is Russ for FVV and GTJ).


Oh his skillset and talent is tantalizing on paper. I get why you guys want him. Just like the Celtics thought adding him to all their guys was going to put them over the top. Just like Brooklyn thought him and KD would be unstoppable. But in the end it was a lot of hype and Kyrie just (bleep) them all over. Just like he’s destroying Brooklyn’s season now. He doesn’t care about anyone but Kyrie. That’s what you’re signing up for.


No disagreement. This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
Kyrie is chaotic, problematic, and relentlessly dramatic.

Sounds exactly like the type of player that the Lakers have never shied away from.


But I still stand by the necessity to swap Russ for shooting/spacing. Whether it's FVV/GTJ or Kyrie.


I agree, particularly with the Rui trade, Russ has to go. The FVV/GTJ option is just one option (assuming it’s a real option) that is more attractive than being the next Kyrie sucker team.


That’s an awfully big assumption. There is ZERO evidence to indicate we have the pieces needed to acquire both those guys.

You can’t be a hardcore pragmatist about Kyrie while living in fantasyland about “other options”. Intellectually inconsistent.


I wouldn't say zero. Of course NBA reporters' words aren't gospel, but there was a report that GTJ could be had for either a protected FRP or at least 2 "good" SRP's. The fact that the SRP part was even put out there suggests to me that he could be had without a FRP, or, at least, a FRP in the future might do. There has also been ample speculation that GTJ is the most likely Toronto player to get dealt, if anybody does. As for FVV, there haven't really been any reports that we know for sure that Toronto would want 2 FRP for him. They are both expiring. I think you could make the argument that if Toronto could get 2 FRP for them both, they might do it. Now, that doesn't mean they would trade him to us or that they would be our FRP that they take, of course. But I don't think it's outrageous to think that we could get one or both of them.
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jankobe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:25 pm    Post subject:

LAL Unloading:

Westbrook
Pat Bev
Lonnie
DJ
JTA
2 FRP's

Acquiring?
Kyrie
Seth or Joe
GTJ or Hield

In 2 separate deals...
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ArminNBA
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:27 pm    Post subject:

Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
ArminNBA wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


The Nets had the 2nd best record before KD went down. You don’t think swapping Russ for Kyrie and giving LeBron/AD all that spacing, let alone the explosive scoring punch, would put the Lakers in a similar position to win a ton of games and be a serious championship threat?

The Nets won 12 games in a row when they were rolling and 16-1 over 17 games. The Lakers will possibly play three more games before any traded players join the team. It’s possible that the Lakers could finish 20-6 over the final 26 games if they’re able to successfully swap Russ for shooting (another idea is Russ for FVV and GTJ).


Oh his skillset and talent is tantalizing on paper. I get why you guys want him. Just like the Celtics thought adding him to all their guys was going to put them over the top. Just like Brooklyn thought him and KD would be unstoppable. But in the end it was a lot of hype and Kyrie just (bleep) them all over. Just like he’s destroying Brooklyn’s season now. He doesn’t care about anyone but Kyrie. That’s what you’re signing up for.


No disagreement. This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
Kyrie is chaotic, problematic, and relentlessly dramatic.

Sounds exactly like the type of player that the Lakers have never shied away from.


But I still stand by the necessity to swap Russ for shooting/spacing. Whether it's FVV/GTJ or Kyrie.


I agree, particularly with the Rui trade, Russ has to go. The FVV/GTJ option is just one option (assuming it’s a real option) that is more attractive than being the next Kyrie sucker team.


That’s an awfully big assumption. There is ZERO evidence to indicate we have the pieces needed to acquire both those guys.

You can’t be a hardcore pragmatist about Kyrie while living in fantasyland about “other options”. Intellectually inconsistent.


GTJ is supposedly on the market for a protected 1st or multiple 2nd round picks. His value is deflated since he's on an expiring and will command a big contract. FVV is in a similar situation — an expiring who will be commanding a big contract this summer.

The 2027 FRP and 2029 FRP would be a competitive offer. However, we don't know if the Lakers are willing to do it because Pelinka said they would only trade the picks if it catapulted the Lakers into title contention, and we don't know if they think this trade would do that.
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2019
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:29 pm    Post subject:

nomoreshaq wrote:
do you guys trade:

Bev
Lonnie
Russ
2 FRP Unprotected
2 SRP

for

GTJ/Kyrie

AD/Bryant/DJ
LBJ/Gabriel/JTA
Rui/TBJ
GTJ/Reaves/Christie
Kyrie/Dennis

Anyone to sign off for the min?


Hell ya. IF healthy, that's an incredible roster wile you just wait for Will Barton to get bought out.
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levon
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:31 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?

Yes, he's increasing Brooklyn's chances. Let's not go overboard. If Brooklyn had Russ right now in Kyrie's place, their chances would be 0%.


You wanna place a bet right now on Brooklyn’s title chances?

Brooklyn's title chances went down precipitously the moment they traded Harden for Simmons, and I've been consistent in that position. But to act like Kyrie doesn't put them closer to a title is swinging too far the other direction. If the Bucks and Celtics get injured enough and the Nets crest at the right time, they can make it out of the East. Do I think it's likely? No, but stranger things have happened. Swap Kyrie for Westbrook and they'd have a 0% chance.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:35 pm    Post subject:

Balto wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Balto wrote:
How about LeVine to the Nets? Would have add a filler contract from the Bulls but basically:

Bulls get:
WB
Both Lakers picks

Nets get:
LeVine

Lakers get:
Kyrie

Something like this.


LaVine has substantally more value than Kyrie Irving does IMO.


Ok how about this:

Bulls get: Still under tax line!
WB
Harris
Both Lakers picks
1 Nets 1st round pick

Nets get:
LeVine
PBev

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DeRozan

AD
Rui
Bron
DeRozan
Kyrie


I was playing around with a Kyrie/DeRozan trade too, but I don't think it's realistic, ultimately, from the other 2 teams' perspectives. For the Nets, they would have to like LaVine enough to be willing to give up Kyrie plus a pick, and while I think they might have LaVine interest without a pick (and we don't even know that; they might be loathe to take on his injury history and remaining dollars), adding the pick makes it tough for them, at least imo, although if KD really liked LaVine and gave his blessing, then who knows. Even more problematic for me is the Bulls' side of this. I think at a bare minimum, they'd want 3 FRP for LaVine (2) and DeRozan (1), and you might even be able to argue 4, given that DeRozan has been a recent All-NBA performer and he still has another year on his deal. But even if we said 3 FRP, ok, now you're having them take Harris, a bad contract. At a bare minimum here, I think you'd have to part with both Reaves and Christie to get the Bulls to even think about it.

LaVine for Kyrie does happen to be almost equal financially, by the way. In looking at this, instead of the Nets getting PatBev and giving up a pick but shedding Harris, what if they just took LaVine only and didn't give up a pick? What if the Bulls didn't have to take Harris but only got 2 FRP from the Lakers...but also got both Reaves and Christie? Is this even close to enough compensation for Chicago, 2 FRP and Reaves (whom they would have to pay as a RFA this summer) and Christie for LaVine and DeRozan? Very, very skeptical of that.
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Rubin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:38 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?


What does that have to do with my very specific question of whether swapping Kyrie for Russ on this specific team would improve their title chances? Seems like a silly non-sequitur intended to dodge my question, but sure, I’ll play:

Prior to KD getting injured, they were 27-13, good for second in the East. Kyrie played a significant role in there early season success. Since then, they’ve managed to stay afloat at the 4-seed. So I’d say it’s going pretty well from a basketball perspective. Certainly miles better than the Lakers.

How about you answer my question now. Or will that not suit your narrative?

BTW - go back and reread my original post. I don’t love the idea of acquiring Kyrie. It just happens to be the best of several subpar options given the crap situation Jeanie and Rob have the Lakers in.


So you like Brooklyn’s chances? You feel Kyrie is advancing their odds right now?

I understand the frustration with our situation. I’m frustrated with it too. It’s important in times like these to not do self-destructive things out of frustration that we will regret.


Please stop with the intellectual dishonesty. No, I don’t like Brooklyn’s chances right now. That is because KD is hurt and I think there are at least 3 teams in the East with better rosters. NOT because of Kyrie’s play, which has been stellar this year.

Let’s also relax with the “self-destructive” rhetoric. If LeBron, AD, and Kyrie give us a shot at one of the next two titles, giving up a couple of FRP’s would’ve been worth it given LeBron’s timeline. You can’t have LeBron and AD on your team and keep missing the playoffs. That is malpractice. Either commit to giving them a shot, or trade them and rebuild.

Now, if it turns out your suggested FVV+GTJ package can be had for the same price as Kyrie, there is a real conversation to be had about which option is superior. But the notion that the Lakers shouldn’t touch Kyrie under any circumstances is foolishly dogmatic.


Last edited by Rubin on Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:39 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?

Yes, he's increasing Brooklyn's chances. Let's not go overboard. If Brooklyn had Russ right now in Kyrie's place, their chances would be 0%.


You wanna place a bet right now on Brooklyn’s title chances?

Brooklyn's title chances went down precipitously the moment they traded Harden for Simmons, and I've been consistent in that position. But to act like Kyrie doesn't put them closer to a title is swinging too far the other direction. If the Bucks and Celtics get injured enough and the Nets crest at the right time, they can make it out of the East. Do I think it's likely? No, but stranger things have happened. Swap Kyrie for Westbrook and they'd have a 0% chance.


I don’t think the Harden/Simmons trade was good for Brooklyn but this is yet another lesson about the cost of getting into business with me-first guys who habitually quit on their teams. You won’t see me advocating for Harden either.

Just upgrading from Westbrook isn’t enough, particularly if we are attaching two first round picks. For a moment just consider that the Nets, who have been through an insane amount of tumult this year (of which most can be blamed on Kyrie) is somehow in position to actually compete for a ring this year. And Kyrie is totally ok blowing it all up. He’s fine screwing over the Nets org who have done everything possible to accommodate him. He’s fine screwing over KD who has stood by him through all of it. And this is the guy people want?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:45 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?

Yes, he's increasing Brooklyn's chances. Let's not go overboard. If Brooklyn had Russ right now in Kyrie's place, their chances would be 0%.


You wanna place a bet right now on Brooklyn’s title chances?

Brooklyn's title chances went down precipitously the moment they traded Harden for Simmons, and I've been consistent in that position. But to act like Kyrie doesn't put them closer to a title is swinging too far the other direction. If the Bucks and Celtics get injured enough and the Nets crest at the right time, they can make it out of the East. Do I think it's likely? No, but stranger things have happened. Swap Kyrie for Westbrook and they'd have a 0% chance.


I don’t think the Harden/Simmons trade was good for Brooklyn but this is yet another lesson about the cost of getting into business with me-first guys who habitually quit on their teams. You won’t see me advocating for Harden either.

Just upgrading from Westbrook isn’t enough, particularly if we are attaching two first round picks. For a moment just consider that the Nets, who have been through an insane amount of tumult this year (of which most can be blamed on Kyrie) is somehow in position to actually compete for a ring this year. And Kyrie is totally ok blowing it all up. He’s fine screwing over the Nets org who have done everything possible to accommodate him. He’s fine screwing over KD who has stood by him through all of it. And this is the guy people want?


I am actually not a fan of Kyrie at all. But it is beyond silly to draw absolutist conclusions about the interpersonal dynamics that play into billion dollar sports franchises, their multi-millionaire players and those players’ relationships, all based on minimal reporting by the sensationalist sports media.

We have no idea what’s going on over there; we can only speculate, which is precisely what you are doing. All I know for certain is LeBron made it work with Kyrie for three years. If he can replicate that here, I think most Lakers fans would be thrilled.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:50 pm    Post subject:

Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
levon wrote:
ocho wrote:
Rubin wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It gives you an outside shot at a title of everything breaks right.


Like it’s helping Brooklyn?


Do you believe that swapping Russ for Kyrie would increase the Lakers’ title chances this year?


Is he increasing Brooklyn’s chances? They don’t have to give anything up for him. They have him right now. How’s it going?

Yes, he's increasing Brooklyn's chances. Let's not go overboard. If Brooklyn had Russ right now in Kyrie's place, their chances would be 0%.


You wanna place a bet right now on Brooklyn’s title chances?

Brooklyn's title chances went down precipitously the moment they traded Harden for Simmons, and I've been consistent in that position. But to act like Kyrie doesn't put them closer to a title is swinging too far the other direction. If the Bucks and Celtics get injured enough and the Nets crest at the right time, they can make it out of the East. Do I think it's likely? No, but stranger things have happened. Swap Kyrie for Westbrook and they'd have a 0% chance.


I don’t think the Harden/Simmons trade was good for Brooklyn but this is yet another lesson about the cost of getting into business with me-first guys who habitually quit on their teams. You won’t see me advocating for Harden either.

Just upgrading from Westbrook isn’t enough, particularly if we are attaching two first round picks. For a moment just consider that the Nets, who have been through an insane amount of tumult this year (of which most can be blamed on Kyrie) is somehow in position to actually compete for a ring this year. And Kyrie is totally ok blowing it all up. He’s fine screwing over the Nets org who have done everything possible to accommodate him. He’s fine screwing over KD who has stood by him through all of it. And this is the guy people want?


I am actually not a fan of Kyrie at all. But it is beyond silly to draw absolutist conclusions about the interpersonal dynamics that play into billion dollar sports franchises, their multi-millionaire players and those players’ relationships, all based on minimal reporting by the sensationalist sports media.

We have no idea what’s going on over there; we can only speculate, which is precisely what you are doing. All I know for certain is LeBron made it work with Kyrie for three years. If he can replicate that here, I think most Lakers fans would be thrilled.


When you start blaming the media for his BS you’ve lost the plot.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Irving being with LeBron when LeBron breaks Kareem’s scoring record is gonna be so awesome
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:55 pm    Post subject:

The risk of Kyrie screwing over the Lakers is higher than I’m comfortable with, but i don’t trust this franchise to not screw it up even worse in the offseason, like giving FVV or Draymond the max. You guys know the tune at this point. It’s get in bed with Kyrie or overpay another Klutch client(s). Give me Kyrie.
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Kyrie on Lebron just this week.

https://twitter.com/OVOLakeShow/status/1620289499556376576
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Balto
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:07 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Balto wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Balto wrote:
How about LeVine to the Nets? Would have add a filler contract from the Bulls but basically:

Bulls get:
WB
Both Lakers picks

Nets get:
LeVine

Lakers get:
Kyrie

Something like this.


LaVine has substantally more value than Kyrie Irving does IMO.


Ok how about this:

Bulls get: Still under tax line!
WB
Harris
Both Lakers picks
1 Nets 1st round pick

Nets get:
LeVine
PBev

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DeRozan

AD
Rui
Bron
DeRozan
Kyrie


I was playing around with a Kyrie/DeRozan trade too, but I don't think it's realistic, ultimately, from the other 2 teams' perspectives. For the Nets, they would have to like LaVine enough to be willing to give up Kyrie plus a pick, and while I think they might have LaVine interest without a pick (and we don't even know that; they might be loathe to take on his injury history and remaining dollars), adding the pick makes it tough for them, at least imo, although if KD really liked LaVine and gave his blessing, then who knows. Even more problematic for me is the Bulls' side of this. I think at a bare minimum, they'd want 3 FRP for LaVine (2) and DeRozan (1), and you might even be able to argue 4, given that DeRozan has been a recent All-NBA performer and he still has another year on his deal. But even if we said 3 FRP, ok, now you're having them take Harris, a bad contract. At a bare minimum here, I think you'd have to part with both Reaves and Christie to get the Bulls to even think about it.

LaVine for Kyrie does happen to be almost equal financially, by the way. In looking at this, instead of the Nets getting PatBev and giving up a pick but shedding Harris, what if they just took LaVine only and didn't give up a pick? What if the Bulls didn't have to take Harris but only got 2 FRP from the Lakers...but also got both Reaves and Christie? Is this even close to enough compensation for Chicago, 2 FRP and Reaves (whom they would have to pay as a RFA this summer) and Christie for LaVine and DeRozan? Very, very skeptical of that.


I had Harris going out because I needed the Nets to take on salary from us getting both Kyrie and DeRozan…so out goes PBev.

So your having PBev go to the Bulls now instead of Nets. One reason I had PBev going to the Nets is because it’s been reported that they will trade both Curry and Harris to focus on D. PBev was that D in my mind but whatever
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Balto wrote:
Why hasn’t this happened yet? Just send both picks and tell him he gets the max.

Rob has no better option to maximize Brons window


Because Brooklyn has no intent to trade Kyrie
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:14 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
What teams have the $$ to give Kyrie a full max this summer?


Haha…well played. You already know. Houston is the only team currently that can walk into the offseason, not doing a damn thing and can offer Ky his 35% max (47.6m; based on a 136m cap).


Lord I hope not. Was just curious on what potential contenders could sign him if he left them for nothing, as far as his leverage to the Nets goes. Or does he need them to move him somewhere for him to get paid.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Balto wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Balto wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Balto wrote:
How about LeVine to the Nets? Would have add a filler contract from the Bulls but basically:

Bulls get:
WB
Both Lakers picks

Nets get:
LeVine

Lakers get:
Kyrie

Something like this.


LaVine has substantally more value than Kyrie Irving does IMO.


Ok how about this:

Bulls get: Still under tax line!
WB
Harris
Both Lakers picks
1 Nets 1st round pick

Nets get:
LeVine
PBev

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DeRozan

AD
Rui
Bron
DeRozan
Kyrie


I was playing around with a Kyrie/DeRozan trade too, but I don't think it's realistic, ultimately, from the other 2 teams' perspectives. For the Nets, they would have to like LaVine enough to be willing to give up Kyrie plus a pick, and while I think they might have LaVine interest without a pick (and we don't even know that; they might be loathe to take on his injury history and remaining dollars), adding the pick makes it tough for them, at least imo, although if KD really liked LaVine and gave his blessing, then who knows. Even more problematic for me is the Bulls' side of this. I think at a bare minimum, they'd want 3 FRP for LaVine (2) and DeRozan (1), and you might even be able to argue 4, given that DeRozan has been a recent All-NBA performer and he still has another year on his deal. But even if we said 3 FRP, ok, now you're having them take Harris, a bad contract. At a bare minimum here, I think you'd have to part with both Reaves and Christie to get the Bulls to even think about it.

LaVine for Kyrie does happen to be almost equal financially, by the way. In looking at this, instead of the Nets getting PatBev and giving up a pick but shedding Harris, what if they just took LaVine only and didn't give up a pick? What if the Bulls didn't have to take Harris but only got 2 FRP from the Lakers...but also got both Reaves and Christie? Is this even close to enough compensation for Chicago, 2 FRP and Reaves (whom they would have to pay as a RFA this summer) and Christie for LaVine and DeRozan? Very, very skeptical of that.


I had Harris going out because I needed the Nets to take on salary from us getting both Kyrie and DeRozan…so out goes PBev.

So your having PBev go to the Bulls now instead of Nets. One reason I had PBev going to the Nets is because it’s been reported that they will trade both Curry and Harris to focus on D. PBev was that D in my mind but whatever


I could see Bev going to the Nets and in fact I have him going to the Nets in a theoretical Kyrie/GTJ trade to the Lakers, but in this particular scenario you are bringing up, I just don't know that the Bulls, especially, are getting back enough here, not with taking Harris. Does it seem likely that our 2 FRP in 2027 and 2029, even if unprotected, could get us 2 legit All-Stars, one of whom was 2nd Team All-NBA just last season and who still has another season to go on his deal? Seems highly unlikely at best. At a bare minimum, I think you'd have to throw in both Reaves and Christie just to possibly make them even take a look at it. And it's still probably not enough. But hey, you never know. It only takes one team to have a different evaluation than the mainstream. For example, Minnesota gave up like 500 FRP for Gobert when I wouldn't have given up even two.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:29 pm    Post subject:

^
It's slightly more realistic to me (but still unrealistic) if it were LaVine and DeRozan we were getting back, but still sending out both Reaves and Christie and the 2 FRP. Though LaVine has a lot of years left on his deal so you have a lot of team control on him, he's an inferior player to Kyrie, not a perennial All-Star, and has just as many availability issues as Kyrie does because he's been oft-injured.

I'd actually try to loop Phoenix in here, as I'd rather have CP3 than LaVine. Maybe Phoenix would rather have LaVine to get younger. I'd rather have CP3 because he's better, much better defensively, a much smarter player (even if he's a prick), a better defender, and, though he's old, his deal expires much quicker and it's even unguaranteed in '24-25. And they are both injury risks anyway.

Again, though, this one just seems very unlikely to me.
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