Head Coach Mr. DARVIN HAM Thread
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 pm    Post subject:

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ocho wrote:
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ocho wrote:
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I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another


He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are.


A lot of fair points here. But there’s still the matter of his making a good number of tactical mistakes that have cost the team games. Some of that could be his lack of experience and we just need to let him learn on the job while banking on the other areas where he is stronger. That’s not typically the profile you want in a coach when you have a short window.

Part of that is why I think the team has shifted to post LeBron planning. They’ll happily keep him around for the next couple years, but they’ve already started seeding the transition.


All coaches lose their team games with mistakes from time to time. For all the Ty Lue worship here (and I think he’s a great coach) you should have seen how Clipper boards felt about him this season. All the same stuff, all the same outrage that’s directed at Ham was directed at Lue. Internet fans are emotional and I think the vitriol for Ham has been more than a little bit overblown. He was dealt a horrible hand and has done a decent job keeping the ship afloat when it could have sunk. We will have a better idea of what he’s capable of next year with more stability to the roster and hopefully better health. No coach is going to come here and win a ton of games with the two best players always hurt and the roster in disarray.


Again solid points, especially (imo) the bolded. I just think there is a balance to acknowledging the circumstance and appreciating the positives with assessment of the mistakes he has made and how that bodes for his being part of a successful team.

Not letting things capsize is commendable and was important for this year's team. But that's a different skillset imo than being an asset to a contender. The areas that Ham has struggled tactically, developing strategies and making in-game adjustment, are precisely the type of things you need from a coach in the playoffs. If we make it to the playoffs, I won't be surprised to see Ham play our five best man defenders and put them in a zone, or overplay Beas even though the other team is targeting him and he's cold, or playing small even though we're getting torched on the boards.

It's not to write him off. Just need him to grow. It would be great for us to get into the playoffs and have him face a more experienced coach. Would also be spectacular for the team to hire an associate head coach that can be a different type of resource than what he has at the moment.


This is all fair and I agree. I think with just about any first time HC there will be growing pains. I do respect what he has brought to the table and look forward to next season when he has a roster that makes sense and a training camp. It’s fair game to discuss a mistake he makes, I just wish I saw more posts like yours and less people just calling him names.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:44 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
ocho wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another


He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are.


A lot of fair points here. But there’s still the matter of his making a good number of tactical mistakes that have cost the team games. Some of that could be his lack of experience and we just need to let him learn on the job while banking on the other areas where he is stronger. That’s not typically the profile you want in a coach when you have a short window.

Part of that is why I think the team has shifted to post LeBron planning. They’ll happily keep him around for the next couple years, but they’ve already started seeding the transition.


All coaches lose their team games with mistakes from time to time. For all the Ty Lue worship here (and I think he’s a great coach) you should have seen how Clipper boards felt about him this season. All the same stuff, all the same outrage that’s directed at Ham was directed at Lue. Internet fans are emotional and I think the vitriol for Ham has been more than a little bit overblown. He was dealt a horrible hand and has done a decent job keeping the ship afloat when it could have sunk. We will have a better idea of what he’s capable of next year with more stability to the roster and hopefully better health. No coach is going to come here and win a ton of games with the two best players always hurt and the roster in disarray.


Again solid points, especially (imo) the bolded. I just think there is a balance to acknowledging the circumstance and appreciating the positives with assessment of the mistakes he has made and how that bodes for his being part of a successful team.

Not letting things capsize is commendable and was important for this year's team. But that's a different skillset imo than being an asset to a contender. The areas that Ham has struggled tactically, developing strategies and making in-game adjustment, are precisely the type of things you need from a coach in the playoffs. If we make it to the playoffs, I won't be surprised to see Ham play our five best man defenders and put them in a zone, or overplay Beas even though the other team is targeting him and he's cold, or playing small even though we're getting torched on the boards.

It's not to write him off. Just need him to grow. It would be great for us to get into the playoffs and have him face a more experienced coach. Would also be spectacular for the team to hire an associate head coach that can be a different type of resource than what he has at the moment.


This is all fair and I agree. I think with just about any first time HC there will be growing pains. I do respect what he has brought to the table and look forward to next season when he has a roster that makes sense and a training camp. It’s fair game to discuss a mistake he makes, I just wish I saw more posts like yours and less people just calling him names.


You 2 making something simple in complex language to hide the fact Ham is an incompetent coach.

Yes even Ham biggest hater can agree the dude is a good motivator, basically act as our best cheerleader. But that’s the only thing he is good for.

I have not seen anyone point anything else positive with Ham.

Even Westbrick have that trait, even if everyone else think he suck, he believe he is best in the world and keep jacking up bricks.

The dude keep pumping out stupid lineup, bad rotation, bad adjustment, bad game plans, and changing something that works to something that doesn’t.

Why does anyone have hope for a coach that does all of above?

Especially our window is like maybe one more year if we can get this whole group back next year.
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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Ham doesn't seem to be a details oriented guy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:30 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Ham doesn't seem to be a details oriented guy


One thing that's really annoying me about his postgame interviews is how he always pumps up the other team, "that's a good squad over there." Just feels like you're giving our guys an excuse to lay an egg.

Speaking of details, does any assistant coach on ham's staff have anything on their CV speaking to their ability to do Xs and Os?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Ham doesn't seem to be a details oriented guy


One thing that's really annoying me about his postgame interviews is how he always pumps up the other team, "that's a good squad over there." Just feels like you're giving our guys an excuse to lay an egg.

Speaking of details, does any assistant coach on ham's staff have anything on their CV speaking to their ability to do Xs and Os?


Of all the reasons why people complain about the coach. This one takes the cake.

What do you expect him to say?

“ They suck and we should’ve beat them, but we didn’t”

Him is a Gentlemans coach. Anybody can see that you can love that or hate it. It is what it is on that front.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:50 am    Post subject:

Mick Cronin had to neutralize a center that was having their way with an injured front line.

Just saying...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:11 am    Post subject:

Polarbear wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Ham doesn't seem to be a details oriented guy


One thing that's really annoying me about his postgame interviews is how he always pumps up the other team, "that's a good squad over there." Just feels like you're giving our guys an excuse to lay an egg.

Speaking of details, does any assistant coach on ham's staff have anything on their CV speaking to their ability to do Xs and Os?


Of all the reasons why people complain about the coach. This one takes the cake.

What do you expect him to say?

“ They suck and we should’ve beat them, but we didn’t”

Him is a Gentlemans coach. Anybody can see that you can love that or hate it. It is what it is on that front.


Lol, well if one wishes to take my comment to the nth degree, obviously I don't expect him to say that. But pumping up the other team feels like an excuse, especially with how our team has played lately. If I were him I'd talk about the specific things we need to improve upon and nothing else.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:39 am    Post subject:

The reality is those interviews after game specially after loses should not occur. When it is national TV, they interview one or two of the best performances players and sometimes the coach. We, in Spectrum have to listen to them 82 times and we already have 37 loses. So how many times we have listened AD said he had to be better, jada jada jada. I, most of the time, just turn off the TV. I live in Eastern time and those loses for me are at 2:00 am.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:15 pm    Post subject:

I’m super impressed with Ham’s ability to get his players to buy in. Not impressed with anything else he does. His starting lineup sucks. His dependence on guys like Malik and Troy for waaaaaay too many unearned minutes sucks. His obsession with small ball lineups when we didn’t have the personnel for it really sucked (very happy he doesn’t have that option anymore). His too long unwillingness to play AD with Wenyen sucked (at least it looks like he’s coming around on this the last couple of games).
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:24 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
I’m super impressed with Ham’s ability to get his players to buy in. Not impressed with anything else he does. His starting lineup sucks. His dependence on guys like Malik and Troy for waaaaaay too many unearned minutes sucks. His obsession with small ball lineups when we didn’t have the personnel for it really sucked (very happy he doesn’t have that option anymore). His too long unwillingness to play AD with Wenyen sucked (at least it looks like he’s coming around on this the last couple of games).

I actually think his dependence on TBJ and Beasley is good coaching. Shooters need to shoot and keep their confidence. And TBJ is the most natural fit at 3 (Vando also a 3 but I think he needs to play some 4 due to the Lakers being so thin in the front court, more so now that Gabriel/AD are playing together).

Reaves gets his green light to light up opposing benches and he closes game. I'd like him to play closer to 34-36 mpg rather than 30, but I just don't have a problem with Ham's coaching. Ultimately I think most of us don't want Beasley to return (unless cheap) but he's on the roster and Ham's gotta make use of him.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:26 pm    Post subject:

Ham sandwich would talk up the 2012 Bobcats and 1998 Nuggets as a "tough young strong team right there. Their records dont justify how good they are." So annoying listening to this meathead talk.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:43 pm    Post subject:

Not a fan of the Schro/DLo closing line-ups tbh… I’ve seen enough of it last 4-5 games. Not a fan of keeping one guy who is having bad shooting night out there.

Ham needs to close with who’s ever playing well that night. And need to go longer out there.

DLO or Schro
Reaves
Rui or TBJ
Vando or Gabriel
AD

Reaves/AD must close. The other 3 spots you have to go with whoever is bringing it that night.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:20 am    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Not a fan of the Schro/DLo closing line-ups tbh… I’ve seen enough of it last 4-5 games. Not a fan of keeping one guy who is having bad shooting night out there.

Ham needs to close with who’s ever playing well that night. And need to go longer out there.

DLO or Schro
Reaves
Rui or TBJ
Vando or Gabriel
AD

Reaves/AD must close. The other 3 spots you have to go with whoever is bringing it that night.


Dennis and DLo 2 man lineups
10 games
141 mins
122.6 ortg
93.0 drtg
+29.6 net

Is it that bad?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:46 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.


Did the same thing last game two see what you want about him but he is putting the correct lineups on the floor

Except for our missing an action three point shooter, he needs to be sat down
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:59 am    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Not a fan of the Schro/DLo closing line-ups tbh… I’ve seen enough of it last 4-5 games. Not a fan of keeping one guy who is having bad shooting night out there.

Ham needs to close with who’s ever playing well that night. And need to go longer out there.

DLO or Schro
Reaves
Rui or TBJ
Vando or Gabriel
AD

Reaves/AD must close. The other 3 spots you have to go with whoever is bringing it that night.

Ham likes the DLO/Dennis combo because DLO is a poor POA defender while that is Dennis' biggest strength defensively.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:11 am    Post subject:

Polarbear wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.


Did the same thing last game two see what you want about him but he is putting the correct lineups on the floor

Except for our missing an action three point shooter, he needs to be sat down


Polar, you're usually coherent.
But you lost me. Haha. Can you clarify?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:56 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
Not a fan of the Schro/DLo closing line-ups tbh… I’ve seen enough of it last 4-5 games. Not a fan of keeping one guy who is having bad shooting night out there.

Ham needs to close with who’s ever playing well that night. And need to go longer out there.

DLO or Schro
Reaves
Rui or TBJ
Vando or Gabriel
AD

Reaves/AD must close. The other 3 spots you have to go with whoever is bringing it that night.


Dennis and DLo 2 man lineups
10 games
141 mins
122.6 ortg
93.0 drtg
+29.6 net

Is it that bad?


Those numbers are great through out the game. I would guess the number is not close to that in the last 3 minutes. As I’m talking about the closing line-up.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:13 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.


Did the same thing last game two see what you want about him but he is putting the correct lineups on the floor

Except for our missing an action three point shooter, he needs to be sat down


Polar, you're usually coherent.
But you lost me. Haha. Can you clarify?


"Ham did the same thing in the previous game, people can say what they like but he's putting the correct lineups on the floor. Except he's still playing our ice cold three point shooter. Beasley needs to be benched."
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:53 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.


Did the same thing last game two see what you want about him but he is putting the correct lineups on the floor

Except for our missing an action three point shooter, he needs to be sat down


Polar, you're usually coherent.
But you lost me. Haha. Can you clarify?


"Ham did the same thing in the previous game, people can say what they like but he's putting the correct lineups on the floor. Except he's still playing our ice cold three point shooter. Beasley needs to be benched."


That's called LG Translate.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:01 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
drae wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Actually played AR good minutes.
And put in Gabriel in with AD.


Did the same thing last game two see what you want about him but he is putting the correct lineups on the floor

Except for our missing an action three point shooter, he needs to be sat down


Polar, you're usually coherent.
But you lost me. Haha. Can you clarify?


"Ham did the same thing in the previous game, people can say what they like but he's putting the correct lineups on the floor. Except he's still playing our ice cold three point shooter. Beasley needs to be benched."


That's called LG Translate.



Thanks @drae. Clarity.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:04 am    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
epic_ wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
Not a fan of the Schro/DLo closing line-ups tbh… I’ve seen enough of it last 4-5 games. Not a fan of keeping one guy who is having bad shooting night out there.

Ham needs to close with who’s ever playing well that night. And need to go longer out there.

DLO or Schro
Reaves
Rui or TBJ
Vando or Gabriel
AD

Reaves/AD must close. The other 3 spots you have to go with whoever is bringing it that night.


Dennis and DLo 2 man lineups
10 games
141 mins
122.6 ortg
93.0 drtg
+29.6 net

Is it that bad?


Those numbers are great through out the game. I would guess the number is not close to that in the last 3 minutes. As I’m talking about the closing line-up.


Hard for me to get those numbers.
But in the 4th quarter:

Games:8
Mins: 50
Ortg: 126.8
Drtg: 86.0
Net: +40.8

Hopefully someone can find the 3 min data to support your statement.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:47 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/GuruLakers/status/1638319810865172480

That's his favorite player on the team for sure. lol
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:31 pm    Post subject:

Lakersfan1211 wrote:
https://twitter.com/GuruLakers/status/1638319810865172480

That's his favorite player on the team for sure. lol


We already knew. Ham loves playing “his boys” of Dennis Schroder, Westbrick before, Troy Brown, and now Beasley.

Like Byron Scott before him, he has a “man he wants with him in a foxhole”. The good old days when he loved playing Ronnie Price over Jordan Clarkson.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:47 am    Post subject:

Bro stop you unlocked a memory I didn't want unlocked. I forgot Ronnie Price existed.
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