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CervantesRises
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 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | When have we really opened up our checkbooks for the center position?
The most we spent is for Trez via the MLE & Mo via trade. Trez was a 6th man, undersized C and probably a solid done for Klutch, while Mo was coming off a suspension, then benched due to injury and was possibly prematurely let go for this upcoming season.
Beyond those two we have predominantly exploited the buyout market (Dwight, DJ, Drummond, Kieff) & have handed out only vet min deals or close to vet min amounts (Boogie, McGee got slightly more than 3m annually).
If we investing in AD’s health/longevity here, we sure got a bizarre way of showing it. We have yet to trade for starting capable C (see Myles) or have not invested heavily into a platoon of Cs that can safeguard AD from spending much time there during the regular season.
Our bubble run was the furthest we’ve gotten with our Bron/AD pairing. That outlier of a season had an unprecedented 4 month in-season pause before they wrapped it up with the playoffs. When the playoffs commenced, it was the furthest we would ever advance with AD looking fresh AF.
So we could either look at it as rest before the deep playoff run had more of a contributing factor or that a capable platoon of Cs in Dwight/McGee/Kieff helped shield AD from extra burn as we went through Denver/Joker or it was capable perimeter defenders in Green, KCP, AC, etc that provided enough PoA resistance so that AD wasn’t constantly put under duress when he played the C…or it was a combination of all of those things.
No matter how one chooses to look at it though, we won a chip when AD looked close to a 100%…he had his legs on his jumper and had enough mobility to be all over the defensive side of the floor. Whether that’s through extended rest/rehab (see last season’s run) or through an investment in the center spot and/or perimeter defenders, his health is what allows us to experience a legit shot at the title.
So after spending minimally yet again on Wood & Hayes, is that enough during the season to shield AD from putting in big minutes as our rim protector? I have my doubts, but I’m hoping for the best. I do believe tho that we most certainly would have helped our cause a whole lot more had we invested into the C position more. |
Wood will hilariously out perform his contract relative to his production.
It's not about spending. It's about production.
2020 Javale and Dwight aren't walking through that door and both were on next to nothing contracts when we had them.
Vogel used the twin towers, which was great for D, but the offense was often clunky and you had Bron at the point.
No way Bron is at the point for anything more than spurts.
AD is a center in the age of position less basketball.
There are 3 dominant championship bigs in the league Joker, Giannis, and AD.
Who wins their second will go a long way towards their legacy.
AD has to become an alpha and do what he does best. Play ferocious D and put up 25 and 10.
In Ham's system 5 out system, AD is a center... and really an all-star center if the talking heads would shut up and watch him play.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 24081
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | When have we really opened up our checkbooks for the center position?
The most we spent is for Trez via the MLE & Mo via trade. Trez was a 6th man, undersized C and probably a solid done for Klutch, while Mo was coming off a suspension, then benched due to injury and was possibly prematurely let go for this upcoming season.
Beyond those two we have predominantly exploited the buyout market (Dwight, DJ, Drummond, Kieff) & have handed out only vet min deals or close to vet min amounts (Boogie, McGee got slightly more than 3m annually).
If we investing in AD’s health/longevity here, we sure got a bizarre way of showing it. We have yet to trade for starting capable C (see Myles) or have not invested heavily into a platoon of Cs that can safeguard AD from spending much time there during the regular season.
Our bubble run was the furthest we’ve gotten with our Bron/AD pairing. That outlier of a season had an unprecedented 4 month in-season pause before they wrapped it up with the playoffs. When the playoffs commenced, it was the furthest we would ever advance with AD looking fresh AF.
So we could either look at it as rest before the deep playoff run had more of a contributing factor or that a capable platoon of Cs in Dwight/McGee/Kieff helped shield AD from extra burn as we went through Denver/Joker or it was capable perimeter defenders in Green, KCP, AC, etc that provided enough PoA resistance so that AD wasn’t constantly put under duress when he played the C…or it was a combination of all of those things.
No matter how one chooses to look at it though, we won a chip when AD looked close to a 100%…he had his legs on his jumper and had enough mobility to be all over the defensive side of the floor. Whether that’s through extended rest/rehab (see last season’s run) or through an investment in the center spot and/or perimeter defenders, his health is what allows us to experience a legit shot at the title.
So after spending minimally yet again on Wood & Hayes, is that enough during the season to shield AD from putting in big minutes as our rim protector? I have my doubts, but I’m hoping for the best. I do believe tho that we most certainly would have helped our cause a whole lot more had we invested into the C position more. |
Curious who you would have signed this summer, say for Gabe’s, DLo’s and Rui’s money instead. Maybe even a S&T scenarios that work cap wise for both teams
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | When have we really opened up our checkbooks for the center position?
The most we spent is for Trez via the MLE & Mo via trade. Trez was a 6th man, undersized C and probably a solid done for Klutch, while Mo was coming off a suspension, then benched due to injury and was possibly prematurely let go for this upcoming season.
Beyond those two we have predominantly exploited the buyout market (Dwight, DJ, Drummond, Kieff) & have handed out only vet min deals or close to vet min amounts (Boogie, McGee got slightly more than 3m annually).
If we investing in AD’s health/longevity here, we sure got a bizarre way of showing it. We have yet to trade for starting capable C (see Myles) or have not invested heavily into a platoon of Cs that can safeguard AD from spending much time there during the regular season.
Our bubble run was the furthest we’ve gotten with our Bron/AD pairing. That outlier of a season had an unprecedented 4 month in-season pause before they wrapped it up with the playoffs. When the playoffs commenced, it was the furthest we would ever advance with AD looking fresh AF.
So we could either look at it as rest before the deep playoff run had more of a contributing factor or that a capable platoon of Cs in Dwight/McGee/Kieff helped shield AD from extra burn as we went through Denver/Joker or it was capable perimeter defenders in Green, KCP, AC, etc that provided enough PoA resistance so that AD wasn’t constantly put under duress when he played the C…or it was a combination of all of those things.
No matter how one chooses to look at it though, we won a chip when AD looked close to a 100%…he had his legs on his jumper and had enough mobility to be all over the defensive side of the floor. Whether that’s through extended rest/rehab (see last season’s run) or through an investment in the center spot and/or perimeter defenders, his health is what allows us to experience a legit shot at the title.
So after spending minimally yet again on Wood & Hayes, is that enough during the season to shield AD from putting in big minutes as our rim protector? I have my doubts, but I’m hoping for the best. I do believe tho that we most certainly would have helped our cause a whole lot more had we invested into the C position more. |
Curious who you would have signed this summer, say for Gabe’s, DLo’s and Rui’s money instead. Maybe even a S&T scenarios that work cap wise for both teams |
Myles Turner, who else? Mo(10.5m) + ShaqH(2.5m) + FRP(Fino?) with 7.5m CBA allowance = Myles. We’ve said it a million times, Vas even mentioned him is the prev comments. Even said, that may not have been the best option considering Mo and Woods had a market value of vet min, shoot the 3 well and block shots at a good pace.
Despite Woods’ defensive woes he did avg 1.1bpg last year and shoots the 3 well. Perhaps we got lucky not spending on a C and got what we need for cheap. The point I think is that the front office relied on vet min luck instead of orchestrating the formula that worked…good support at C for AD.
Time will tell if the gamble works
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Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 16865
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | When have we really opened up our checkbooks for the center position?
<snip>
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Curious who you would have signed this summer, say for Gabe’s, DLo’s and Rui’s money instead. Maybe even a S&T scenarios that work cap wise for both teams |
This. Myles Turner would've required a trade, and Indy extended him rather than trading him anywhere. BroLo went back to Milwaukee for more $$$ than we could have offered. In fact, when you look at the "big" centers who switched teams, only Robin Lopez & Jock Landale (who Vas stanned for) switched teams. RoLo went to play for his brother and PHX let Landale walk for nothing and replaced him with (gasp) Thomas Bryant.
No one has signed Dwight, Boogie, etc., because they're done. We tried Andre Drummond, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol - they didn't work.
I'm not going to fault Rob for missing out on Omer Yurtseven. I'm happy rolling the dice with Hayes & Wood.
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | governator wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | When have we really opened up our checkbooks for the center position?
<snip>
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Curious who you would have signed this summer, say for Gabe’s, DLo’s and Rui’s money instead. Maybe even a S&T scenarios that work cap wise for both teams |
This. Myles Turner would've required a trade, and Indy extended him rather than trading him anywhere. BroLo went back to Milwaukee for more $$$ than we could have offered. In fact, when you look at the "big" centers who switched teams, only Robin Lopez & Jock Landale (who Vas stanned for) switched teams. RoLo went to play for his brother and PHX let Landale walk for nothing and replaced him with (gasp) Thomas Bryant.
No one has signed Dwight, Boogie, etc., because they're done. We tried Andre Drummond, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol - they didn't work.
I'm not going to fault Rob for missing out on Omer Yurtseven. I'm happy rolling the dice with Hayes & Wood. |
Me too! Rolling with Wood/Hayes so Faulk Myles and any other non-Laker! Lol 😂 The poster asked for who and one example with Myles was given, we’re not GMs (we act like it lol), so other options we haven’t conceived could have also been out there.
Perhaps Rob tried and couldn’t get it done, the point is that the front office hasn’t appeared to prioritize upgrading the C spot more than vet min gambles even tho having C options on the team appears to have contributed to the ship run and AD has made it clear he prefers to play PF.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: |
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@Cervantes: the only talking head I’m paying attention to is that unibrowed defensive dynamo that has repeatedly said multiple times over the years how he prefers to play the 4. If he is the one saying it, you’d think folks would start listening and making it a priority.
@Gov: like @DrL & @HfR have stated, I’ve given a few examples as to how I would have ADdressed the offseason, with the priority being safeguarding AD’s workload for the regular season. Btw @DrL stating how I’m on Landale’s
kick is a bit hyperbole. Make no mistake, it’s AD’s jock I’m on (pause) and folks need to understan how important his health is to our overall success not just for this year but for our fourCable future. If dude believes he would be better off at the 4, you make that happen cause there’s a reason he believes tfat to be the cause. I trust his defensive acumen and the way he assess his health over any GM, coach or fan.
Not finding a longterm solution for dude since we traded for him is a titanic failure to him and to us.
https://tenor.com/bRjn4.gif
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CervantesRises
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | @Cervantes: the only talking head I’m paying attention to is that unibrowed defensive dynamo that has repeatedly said multiple times over the years how he prefers to play the 4. If he is the one saying it, you’d think folks would start listening and making it a priority.
@Gov: like @DrL & @HfR have stated, I’ve given a few examples as to how I would have ADdressed the offseason, with the priority being safeguarding AD’s workload for the regular season. Btw @DrL stating how I’m on Landale’s
kick is a bit hyperbole. Make no mistake, it’s AD’s jock I’m on (pause) and folks need to understan how important his health is to our overall success not just for this year but for our fourCable future. If dude believes he would be better off at the 4, you make that happen cause there’s a reason he believes tfat to be the cause. I trust his defensive acumen and the way he assess his health over any GM, coach or fan.
Not finding a longterm solution for dude since we traded for him is a titanic failure to him and to us.
https://tenor.com/bRjn4.gif |
That's fine.
It's also disingenuous.
AD has said that.
He's also said he'd do whatever the team needs.
He also gets input on roster construction.
He (and Bron) also whiffed big time on Westbrick.
Seems to me that if AD was as adamant about the Lakers investing a significant amount of cap into a starting 5... and thereby forcing Bron to the 3... as you are adamant and accusatory...
Then it would have happened or...
He wouldn't of signed that extension and held that over the FO like Giannis just did.
AD is on board with what's happening.
You seem to pull quotes from 2020 and ignore obvious recent facts that carry much more weight.
Disagree with you but also respect your pov.🤙🏽
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| For those who’ve watched live (I’ve only seen highlights): how is AD’s jumper looking? Like the numbers, especially from FT line, but super small sample size. He lacked fluidity past couple years, tremendous brick layer, just some ugly ass shots. If his J is back… |
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | For those who’ve watched live (I’ve only seen highlights): how is AD’s jumper looking? Like the numbers, especially from FT line, but super small sample size. He lacked fluidity past couple years, tremendous brick layer, just some ugly ass shots. If his J is back… |
From what I have seen his midrange and FT have always been good. It's the 3 point shot where he is bad. He seems to take the majority of his threes from the long top of the key. Less of those, more short open 3's might help his percentage. |
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Again, Lakers go as far as AD takes them. Better strengthen that shot if he doesn't want to bang inside and risk more injury, especially as he hits his 30s.
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Cutheon
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Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | For those who’ve watched live (I’ve only seen highlights): how is AD’s jumper looking? Like the numbers, especially from FT line, but super small sample size. He lacked fluidity past couple years, tremendous brick layer, just some ugly ass shots. If his J is back… |
From what I have seen his midrange and FT have always been good. It's the 3 point shot where he is bad. He seems to take the majority of his threes from the long top of the key. Less of those, more short open 3's might help his percentage. |
Middy has been off for him since the lower body injuries/coming off the bubble. Hopefully it returns |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Seeing what Wembanyama just did to GS last night.
I'm happy we have Brow locked up for years to come. At least we have an answer for that guy.
Teams who don't. Especially in the Western Conference. Are gonna have a rough time.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Seeing what Wembanyama just did to GS last night.
I'm happy we have Brow locked up for years to come. At least we have an answer for that guy.
Teams who don't. Especially in the Western Conference. Are gonna have a rough time. |
Wemby looks like Ralph Sampson to me (that is a compliment). I hope he stays healthy.
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Halflife
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al242
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Seeing what Wembanyama just did to GS last night.
I'm happy we have Brow locked up for years to come. At least we have an answer for that guy.
Teams who don't. Especially in the Western Conference. Are gonna have a rough time. |
Wemby is like something I’ve never seen before, he is a cheat code. Anthony Davis has absolutely no answer for him… he may have about 6-8 inches on Davis.. when he puts on some weight, the league is in trouble |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Seeing what Wembanyama just did to GS last night.
I'm happy we have Brow locked up for years to come. At least we have an answer for that guy.
Teams who don't. Especially in the Western Conference. Are gonna have a rough time. |
Wemby is like something I’ve never seen before, he is a cheat code. Anthony Davis has absolutely no answer for him… he may have about 6-8 inches on Davis.. when he puts on some weight, the league is in trouble |
He should not put on weight.
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Halflife
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Lakeshow323
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero points in the 2nd half. Bravo 👏 |
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Halflife
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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So yeah Ham has to make it a priority to give him the ball. Look at what the Nugs do with Jokic. They play through their best player. Why can't the Lakers do the same? It's absurd. Ham just seems to be content with his players chucking errant and off key 3s. It's like a joke at this point.
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lakez34
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| AD just isn't gonna be able to work post against Jokic or blow past him off the dribble. Hard matchup for him and most bigs in the league. |
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Lakeshow323
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny_Russo wrote: | | So yeah Ham has to make it a priority to give him the ball. Look at what the Nugs do with Jokic. They play through their best player. Why can't the Lakers do the same? It's absurd. Ham just seems to be content with his players chucking errant and off key 3s. It's like a joke at this point. |
They can’t run through Davis because he doesn’t have Jokics elite passing and distribution. And this isn’t on Ham, he shouldn’t have to prioritize his superstar to command the ball and contribute to score. This is AD being soft AF and disappearing. |
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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1st half - 17 points
2nd half -0 points
New season same old ad |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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AD scorched Jokic offensively last season. Just one of those games where he came in too amped up imo.
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Denny_Russo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow323 wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | | So yeah Ham has to make it a priority to give him the ball. Look at what the Nugs do with Jokic. They play through their best player. Why can't the Lakers do the same? It's absurd. Ham just seems to be content with his players chucking errant and off key 3s. It's like a joke at this point. |
They can’t run through Davis because he doesn’t have Jokics elite passing and distribution. And this isn’t on Ham, he shouldn’t have to prioritize his superstar to command the ball and contribute to score. This is AD being soft AF and disappearing. |
Really? Because I saw the Nuggets sending doubles and AD kicking it out. Defenses clearly respect him, and Ham falling into the 3 ball trap always plays to the Lakers disadvantage.
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