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lakersken80
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 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Certain MLB organizations you know you are playing to win a championship. Dodgers would be on that list. Theres a couple more which includes the Yankees, Red Sox I would considering their fans and media demand nothing but excellence or else the season is a failure. On the other pantheon of teams I would include the A's where the organization doesn't really care about winning. They are just there to make payroll and collect money from the rest of the owners. So yes, who Ohtani signs for next will tell us what he wants his legacy to be defined as. |
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Lamar's Bud
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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At least it's understandable why he didn't pick the Dodgers initially. There was no universal DH. Now it cannot be used as an excuse.
We're not even a week removed from the end of the World Series and I'm already anxious to see what he decides. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Ohtani will be remembered or forgotten by which team he is signing for during this off season. Are championships important to him or will he be comfortable with those fat paychecks like his fellow teammate Mike Trout playing in a low pressure environment. |
exactly, Ohtani does not strike me as someone who's hungry for a World Series championship. for World Baseball Classic, maybe, but not sold on his dedication with MLB yet. |
Gonna need some elaboration here. Guy carried the team and didn't shut down until it was clear they weren't making the playoffs. Everything else is just armchair psychology. |
My guess/interpretation:
I think they're referring to his decision to join the Angels instead of the Dodgers and now they're waiting to see what team he chooses to sign with.
For instance, if he chooses to sign with the Giants or Mariners then that's a sign that he's not committed to winning. He's committed to something else. Money? Location?
If he chooses to sign with the Dodgers, then he's committed to winning...
But if he signs with Texas, then he's just committed to eating BBQ. |
He absolutely thought the Angels were going to win when he signed there. SoCal was his preferred destination and the Angels had the DH, and the Dodgers didn't, at the time. They had Mike Trout in his absolute prime and an owner willing to spend money. At that time, they had made the playoffs like 3 or 4 years prior. It wasn't a crazy thought to think that they would (and should) win with their budget and top-end talent. When the noise started getting louder in 2022 calling for Arte Moreno to agree to trade him, he did nothing to quiet that speculation and it was pretty obvious that he would have welcomed a trade.
The Mariners made the postseason in 2022 and almost did again this year, and while their lineup leaves a little to be desired, imagine adding himself to that. Their rotation and pitching staff is excellent, so imagine adding himself to that pitching staff in 2025. If he prefers the West Coast, and if Seattle comes with an insane offer, it's not like it would be crazy for him to go there.
The Giants also offer a West Coast city, and while I don't think their roster is as strong as Seattle's, he would be the unquestioned face of the franchise, and who knows, maybe that appeals to him. I'd expect Seattle to make more sense for him, though.
As for Texas, I mean, they just won the title, they have good players, he's familiar with the division, and maybe their owner is willing to write a blank check amid the good feelings of winning the World Series. It's not the West Coast, but it's also not the East Coast, which he's said to not like as much. |
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MookieBetts50
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Joined: 22 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hopefully there's a contingency plan if Andrew can't land Shohei. |
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gumby
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Location: Inland Empire
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| aprevo15 wrote: | | Let's go Dodgers. NLCS or bust. |
Close, WS trophy or bust.
Bye.
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"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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gumby
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ohtani on the Dodgers has to be the option.
Angels will take years to regroup so he's not going there again.
The Dodgers are good right now even in down years. If/when we get him, we can't waste his good years left.
Would like to pick up another of those imports as well.
Bye.
_________________
"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | Hopefully there's a contingency plan if Andrew can't land Shohei. |
Even if we do get him, we still need more starting pitching for 2024, and I don't mean Kershaw, since he's only going to be an option maybe around the All-Star break (and that's in an absolute best-case scenario). If we go into the season with a rotation of something like Buehler, Miller, Pepiot, and 2 of the 3 (or maybe all 3 if we implement a 6-man) of Sheehan/Stone/Yarbrough, I'm going to be deeply underwhelmed. |
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | Hopefully there's a contingency plan if Andrew can't land Shohei. |
Even if we do get him, we still need more starting pitching for 2024, and I don't mean Kershaw, since he's only going to be an option maybe around the All-Star break (and that's in an absolute best-case scenario). If we go into the season with a rotation of something like Buehler, Miller, Pepiot, and 2 of the 3 (or maybe all 3 if we implement a 6-man) of Sheehan/Stone/Yarbrough, I'm going to be deeply underwhelmed. |
Yeah then the Burnes option if the Brewers dangle him could be the play to solidify the top of the rotation. |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:47 am Post subject: |
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If Ohtani comes to the Dodgers, what would be a reasonable expectation when it comes to how good a pitcher he'll be when he's cleared to pitch again? Can be at least get close to where he was before the injury, or will he never be the same?
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Snipes
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: |
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The only unfortunate part about this whole Ohtani situation is the fact that it’s going to take time and a lot of negotiating. There will be many moments where we will feel we may not be the team he’s heading to but ultimately I think Friedman ponies up and we get him.
Boy is it going to be a long few days/weeks. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | The only unfortunate part about this whole Ohtani situation is the fact that it’s going to take time and a lot of negotiating. There will be many moments where we will feel we may not be the team he’s heading to but ultimately I think Friedman ponies up and we get him.
Boy is it going to be a long few days/weeks. |
The biggest issue is, we're going to lose out on our plan B while chasing plan A: Ohtani.
So basically, there is no plan B.
It's either plan A or like, plan D. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Well the winter baseball meetings are next month so we should have an idea where he's going. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Well the winter baseball meetings are next month so we should have an idea where he's going. |
Sure.
But look at SF last yr. Judge was their no 1. They didn’t get Judge. They pivoted to a broke down Correa. Didn’t get him. Ended up with nothing basically.
Whoever they ended up signing were probably their plan Z. That’s all I’m saying.
The top free agent on the market don’t always sign first. Sometimes (like Judge), they sign last.
Itl’d be great if the Ohtani domino fell first.
It Ohtani is indeed our plan A, who are our plan B?
Yamamoto and JD Martinez?
JD definitely won’t be waiting around. As soon as he gets a nice multi year contract, he’a signing. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Well the winter baseball meetings are next month so we should have an idea where he's going. |
Sure.
But look at SF last yr. Judge was their no 1. They didn’t get Judge. They pivoted to a broke down Correa. Didn’t get him. Ended up with nothing basically.
Whoever they ended up signing were probably their plan Z. That’s all I’m saying.
The top free agent on the market don’t always sign first. Sometimes (like Judge), they sign last.
Itl’d be great if the Ohtani domino fell first.
It Ohtani is indeed our plan A, who are our plan B?
Yamamoto and JD Martinez?
JD definitely won’t be waiting around. As soon as he gets a nice multi year contract, he’a signing. |
Facts.
If someone comes with 2 years at a nice AAV, he's going to jump at it, after settling for a 1-year deal last winter. I could frankly see the Padres trying to steal him away in the early stages of free agency. Given how many years they've lavished on other guys recently, 2 years will probably seem like nothing to them, and unlike when they tried to coax one more year out of Nelson Cruz at the DH spot last offseason, Martinez looks like he has plenty left. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
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Lamar's Bud
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
I get the frustration people have with Muncy's feast or famine hitting, but the dude gives awesome production with the bat for what he's getting paid. His defense leaves a bit to be desired, but we've also moved him around a bit during his time here. As long as he keeps the mistakes down, he's adequate defensively.
On the surface, I was strongly in favor acquiring Arenado but when I look back at their 2023 numbers, Muncy outperformed him offensively. I won't pretend I am a know-it-all with the advanced stats, but on the defensive side, Muncy's dWAR was -0.1 and Arenado 0.3. That seems like a very negligible difference given Arenado was paid $35M vs Max's $13.5M. That salary difference could be spent on a good starting pitcher...which this team desperately needs a lot of. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
It’s insane value, yeah. 1 WAR generally goes for $8-10m on the free agent market. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar's Bud wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
I get the frustration people have with Muncy's feast or famine hitting, but the dude gives awesome production with the bat for what he's getting paid. His defense leaves a bit to be desired, but we've also moved him around a bit during his time here. As long as he keeps the mistakes down, he's adequate defensively.
On the surface, I was strongly in favor acquiring Arenado but when I look back at their 2023 numbers, Muncy outperformed him offensively. I won't pretend I am a know-it-all with the advanced stats, but on the defensive side, Muncy's dWAR was -0.1 and Arenado 0.3. That seems like a very negligible difference given Arenado was paid $35M vs Max's $13.5M. That salary difference could be spent on a good starting pitcher...which this team desperately needs a lot of. |
Arenado had a massive regression last year. Like you said, that money is much better spent on starting pitching. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Angels hire Ron Washington. Guess Mike Scioscia wasn't available for a 2nd go around. |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
WAR is weird. Muncy is a negative fielder but hey, he plays the field, so bonus points! LOL. Martinez was unquestionably a better hitter last season. I'll put it this way, who do you think a pitcher would rather face? Especially a good pitcher? This all said, sure, Muncy's contract is reasonable, so I'm not mad at it. If we happened to strike out on Ohtani and Martinez, who knows, maybe they could even move him to DH with signing someone like Chapman as a possibility, or a lesser player, or perhaps a trade for someone to play there. But I'm expecting him to be the starter at third, with a big sigh.
I did notice that Tom Verducci was on Jim Rome's show today and that he called the Dodgers the overwhelming favorite to sign Ohtani. We're -110 in betting markets, with the next-closest odds belonging to the Giants at +550. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | why did the dodgers re-sign Muncy? such a liability in postseason with his swing for the fence approach. |
$12m per for 35hr/100rbi average is still excellent value despite the Mendoza line and shoddy fielding Max gives you. |
Plus, we have no suitable replacement at 3B.
Who are the candidates? Vargas? Busch? Taylor? Arenado?
If we can get Arenado, then Muncy would be a tradable asset.
| Quote: | 2022: 2.7 WAR
2023: 2.6 WAR |
That's not bad for $12M
For comparison's sake, we got 1.9 WAR from JD Martinez last yr and he's going to get a substantial raise. |
WAR is weird. Muncy is a negative fielder but hey, he plays the field, so bonus points! LOL. Martinez was unquestionably a better hitter last season. I'll put it this way, who do you think a pitcher would rather face? Especially a good pitcher? This all said, sure, Muncy's contract is reasonable, so I'm not mad at it. If we happened to strike out on Ohtani and Martinez, who knows, maybe they could even move him to DH with signing someone like Chapman as a possibility, or a lesser player, or perhaps a trade for someone to play there. But I'm expecting him to be the starter at third, with a big sigh.
I did notice that Tom Verducci was on Jim Rome's show today and that he called the Dodgers the overwhelming favorite to sign Ohtani. We're -110 in betting markets, with the next-closest odds belonging to the Giants at +550. |
Agreed that WAR is weird and sometimes puts too much value/emphasis on defense.
But 3B is an extremely difficult position to fill. It's a position we used to have so much trouble filling. We're either stable or we go through periods of it being a revolving door.
I have a feeling it might become a revolving door again for us because we don't really have any good replacement candidates. So I don't mind keeping Muncy in the meantime.
| Quote: | 1973: Ron Cey (4.0 WAR)
1974: Ron Cey (4.8 WAR)
1975: Ron Cey (6.7 WAR)
1976: Ron Cey (6.0 WAR)
1977: Ron Cey (3.5 WAR)
1978: Ron Cey (5.4 WAR)
1979: Ron Cey (5.1 WAR)
1980: Ron Cey (5.0 WAR)
1980: Ron Cey (3.5 WAR)
1980: Ron Cey (3.6 WAR)
1980: Pedro Guerrero (5.5 WAR)
1984: Germán Rivera (0.6 WAR)
1985: Dave Anderson (1.2 WAR)
1986: Bill Madlock (1.1 WAR)
1987: Mickey Hatcher (0.8 WAR)
1988: Jeff Hamilton (0.7 WAR)
1989: Jeff Hamilton (-0.2 WAR)
1990: Mike Sharperson (2.3 WAR)
1991: Lenny Harris (1.3 WAR)
1992: Dave Hansen (-0.8 WAR)
1993: Tim Wallach (-1.0 WAR)
1994: Tim Wallach (1.9 WAR)
1995: Tim Wallach (0.9 WAR)
1996: Mike Blowers (-0.1 WAR)
1997: Todd Zeile (2.0 WAR)
1998: Beltre (0.2 WAR)
1999: Beltre (3.9 WAR)
2000: Beltre (3.4 WAR)
2001: Beltre (0.8 WAR)
2002: Beltre (2.0 WAR)
2003: Beltre (3.6 WAR)
2004: Beltre (9.6 WAR)
2005: Oscar Robles (0.4 WAR)
2006: Wilson Betemit (0.1 WAR)
2007: Wilson Betemit (0.4 WAR)
2008: Blake DeWitt (1.6 WAR)
2009: Casey Blake (4.6 WAR)
2010: Casey Blake (2.7 WAR)
2011: Aaron Miles (0.5 WAR)
2012: Luis Cruz (2.3 WAR)
2013: Juan Uribe (3.6 WAR)
2014: Juan Uribe (4.0 WAR)
2015: Justin Turner (3.8 WAR)
2016: Justin Turner (5.0 WAR)
2017: Justin Turner (5.6 WAR)
2018: Justin Turner (4.7 WAR)
2019: Justin Turner (3.8 WAR)
2020: Justin Turner (1.5 WAR)
2021: Justin Turner (3.5 WAR)
2022: Max Muncy (2.6 WAR)
2023: Max Muncy (2.7 WAR)
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Man, that 15 year run from 1984-1998 were so brutal!
Last 11 years have been good/great for us (Uribe, Turner, Muncy). All 3 were scrap heap pickups. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Bryce Harper to be full-time 1B; Phillies move on from Hoskins |
Damn, he can't play outfield anymore? |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Teoscar Hernandez? How much will he cost?
Powerful corner outfield right handed bat who had a down year. Sounds right up our alley.
| Quote: | Dodgers Rumors: LA Interested In Former AL All-Star Outfielder
The latest rumors have the Dodgers potentially looking at a former American League All-Star to help fill a role. That would be former Seattle Mariners and Toronto Blue Jays outfielder Teoscar Hernandez.
| Quote: |
Jorge Castillo
@jorgecastillo
One name on the Dodgers' radar: Teoscar Hernández.
They could use a corner OF and they've shown interest. Hernández was a 2021 All-Star and has at least 22 HR in each full season since becoming a regular in 2018. He slashed .258/.305/.435 in 160 games for Seattle in 2023.
Nov 8, 2023 |
Hernandez was not offered a qualifying offer by the Mariners this offseason, making it even more plausible for the Dodgers to go after him. He spent last season with Seattle after multiple years in Toronto, including his All-Star season in 2021.
Last year, Hernandez hit .258 with 26 home runs and 93 runs batted in. He posted a 2.1 WAR and a .741 OPS for the Mariners.
While he did have a down year in 2023, he isn't far removed from his All-Star campaign. In 2021, he hit .296 with 32 home runs and 116 runs batted in, so maybe he could replicate that type of production if he were to join the Dodgers being surrounded by their talent.
He is an above-average hitter, despite striking out a ton, and at times he has poor player discipline. Defensively Hernandez isn't a Gold Glove candidate, but he has gotten better over the years.
Hernandez could be a decent option for the Dodgers depending on what it would cost to land his services. He made $14 million last season with Seattle, so he could be looking for something in that range.
LA looks to be in the market for a corner outfielder this offseason, especially if they lose both David Peralta and Jason Heyward. Hernandez could help fill the role while giving the Dodgers a solid right-handed bat who can mash the ball.
The Dodgers could do worse than Hernandez, and it seems that they are intent on upgrading the roster this season. This will be something to monitor going forward, and maybe we see Hernandez wearing Dodger Blue next season.
https://www.si.com/mlb/dodgers/news/dodgers-news-la-interested-in-former-al-all-star-outfielder-ml0802
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