Watching Malik Beasley’s resurgence this season makes me extra mad especially with Prince looking like dog poop
Don't care much about Beasley, he wasn't good here. Much more sad we let Lonnie Walk _________________ 48 49 50 52 53 54 72 80 82
85 87 88 00 01 02 09 10 20
Wizards are already looking to move on from Jordan Poole.. I’m pretty sure a contender isn’t gonna mind trading for him
I’m pretty sure a contender would mind very much. Poole has not been good since that miracle run he had with the Warriors. Since that ring run, he’s consistently shown himself to be a low iq, high volume yet low efficiency type scorer who actively hurts his team with his non existent defense and terrible decision making.
Something of a random fact, if LA dealt Russell for Mitchell Robinson (NYK), the Lakers would fall $360k under the tax while the Knicks would be $1.1m, which would be enough to deal with DLo's unlikely bonus should that come to pass. Robinson is averaging 11 rpg, and his deal declines over the next two seasons. _________________ Charter Member Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 28535 Location: La La Land
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:49 pm Post subject:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Something of a random fact, if LA dealt Russell for Mitchell Robinson (NYK), the Lakers would fall $360k under the tax while the Knicks would be $1.1m, which would be enough to deal with DLo's unlikely bonus should that come to pass. Robinson is averaging 11 rpg, and his deal declines over the next two seasons.
I think Thibs would hate that trade. _________________ "knew I was fly when I was just a caterpillar."
You just have to laugh at people complaining Prince is hurting the offense and then a few posts later saying we need Vando back in the starting lineup.
Vando is a better defender than Prince so at the very least Vando gives us something if his shot isn't falling.
Prince has had some solid moments in time where he would get a key steal, but he's not been the defender he's been billed as. We're fine to concede him being a worse defender than Vando if he can convert his wide open threes which he usually shoots 38-40% and he hasn't done that.
Prince gets the most wide open shots here than he's had his entire career and he's botched it so far. His lack of great defense makes that stand out more.
We are going nowhere if Prince is playing 30 minutes a game.
Something of a random fact, if LA dealt Russell for Mitchell Robinson (NYK), the Lakers would fall $360k under the tax while the Knicks would be $1.1m, which would be enough to deal with DLo's unlikely bonus should that come to pass. Robinson is averaging 11 rpg, and his deal declines over the next two seasons.
We definitely need a defensive center to save Ham from running AD into the ground already, but trading Dlo without getting back a solid pg in return would net a diminishing return.
Something of a random fact, if LA dealt Russell for Mitchell Robinson (NYK), the Lakers would fall $360k under the tax while the Knicks would be $1.1m, which would be enough to deal with DLo's unlikely bonus should that come to pass. Robinson is averaging 11 rpg, and his deal declines over the next two seasons.
We definitely need a defensive center to save Ham from running AD into the ground already, but trading Dlo without getting back a solid pg in return would net a diminishing return.
Russell would be a steep price, and the facilitation is an important quality Russell brings. When LeBron takes more of those reps, Reaves gets more acclimated to the role, and Vincent rounds into form, that facilitator role in a sixteen game format will diminish in importance.
Alternatively, all the top teams have difference makers at center, Jokic, Giannis/Lopez, Porzingis, Embiid. We need more than Hayes and Wood behind AD. _________________ Charter Member Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Prince has shot over 1900 threes at a 37 percent clip and shot only 53 shots this year and you think he can't shoot.
Conversely Bron has shot over 6600 threes at a 34.5% clip and shot 40% for 73 shots and you think he's become Steph or Klay
Historically the more shots Prince shoots... the better his average.
You all are saying how Klay is cooked... and like clockwork... he goes 5 for 11 tonight.
If shooters go 7 years shooting threes well, I think it's safe to say that's more likely what they are than if they go 14 games shooting threes poorly.
Something of a random fact, if LA dealt Russell for Mitchell Robinson (NYK), the Lakers would fall $360k under the tax while the Knicks would be $1.1m, which would be enough to deal with DLo's unlikely bonus should that come to pass. Robinson is averaging 11 rpg, and his deal declines over the next two seasons.
OK, now that's an idea that deserves some serious consideration by the Laker front office. It addresses what is by far the biggest need with this roster: getting a legit defensive center of size that can both rebound and go toe-to-toe to help slow down the Jokics and Embids of the league that we may face in the playoffs.
This is the best player acquisition suggestion I've seen on LG in a long time!
kikanga wrote:
I think Thibs would hate that trade.
Yeah, I agree that would be the main obstacle in getting the Knick center Robinson over here as suggested above, but there are still some factors that don't make it an impossibility:
~~~~~
1.
Making D'Lo the central piece we give up while we get Mitchell Robinson helps the rotation of both teams' roster somewhat equally. AD is our starting center of course, but we also need a specialist defensive big at the center position for specific match ups against large, offensively skilled opposing centers (Jokic, Embid, etc.).
The Knicks need another quality play maker in the guard slot aside from Brunson who carries that load alone right now.
2.
Without D'Lo, the Lakers take a hit in a player who has been decently consistent this season in scoring and play making for us, but the team as a whole has a bunch of guys (when healthy) able to put up double figures here and there if Ham manages the deep bench effectively, and we still have two primary play makers in Lebron and Austin come playoff time, which was enough to win it all in the 2020 championship run (Lebron and Rondo).
Without DRob, the Knicks still have two legitimate bigs on their roster in 7'0" Hartenstein and 6'10" Jericho Sims. Losing a third center to gain a second play maker and another legit scorer makes some sense for them.
3.
The Cam Reddish factor. There were a number of posts here last season that tried to shoot down our suggestion of the Lakers getting Reddish from the Knicks because he was stuck on their bench and not playing. The LG detractor logic of some was kinda like this this: "Why get a guy that Thibs replaced with other players? Obviously Cam must not be good enough for our Lakers." Reddish's play in purple 'n gold shows that Thibs ain't a perfect evaluator (or developer) of legit talent.
If Pelinka made it happen last season, who here wouldn't have LOVED to see Cam defending Jamaal Murray in the WCF last season, who simply shot over lil' Dennis Schroeder with ease all four games in the sweep? How about guarding Bruce Brown, who bragged DURING THE SERIES, that the Nuggets intentionally attacked DLo's defense with ease when driving towards the basket? Defending MPJ? KCP?
Any offense from Reddish in that series would've been icing on the cake, but we lost in a sweep mainly because we had no one big enough and mobile enough to slow Jokic down, and also we were too small as a team to gimp the offense of a lot of other players. Reddish would've at minimum given us more defensive options in the rotation, potentially thwarted only by Ham's love for small ball last year (he's been much better this season.
~~~~~
So if Thibs felt that he could improve his team's play making and scoring with a trade like this because his existing centers would be sufficient for his needs, that would be to our benefit in acquiring DRob to address a legit weakness on our roster.
JUST-MING wrote:
Lebron needs to be surrounded by shooters. Mitchell Robinson would be a bad fit, why Rob drafted the german over him.
They would probably start Gabe Vincent and Taurean Prince.
Mitchell Robinson would be fighting for minutes with Christian Wood and Jaxson Hayes.
That ignores the importance of defense to win it all.
To play great team defense, you need enough great team defenders. The specific great team defenders needed depends on the quality of the offensive opponents to be defended. In 2020, we had the highly capable Dwight Howard guard Jokic in the playoffs, and it worked to slow the Joker down. No, not stop him (which is impossible... sometimes we double teamed him hard), but make it tougher for him to post us up with ease as he made his offensive decisions. We don't have that in 2023/2024, and Jokic is even better!
D12 wasn't needed for pretty much the rest of the playoffs. We need to have the right tool for the job.
The same is true for guarding Embid in case they somehow make the Finals to play against us (if we make it too)... we need a big, defensive player of size that can provide some resistance along with the rest of our team. For anyone who doubts that DRob can do that, check out this take from Fred Katz from The Athletic from last week (start at :17s):
This would be perfect for our team! Paint defense against offensively talented big centers, some perimeter defensive mobility, a great rebounder, and all this from a role player. Honestly, I'd be willing to give up a future first ('29 is available for a deal), DLo and CWood (to give the Knicks another decent big) to make this happen. Do it, Rob!!!!
I bought up trading for Mitchell Robinson before the season started, it’s making more sense now especially with Hayes being unplayable almost every night and Wood looking below average
I'd feel more comfortable trading DLO without getting a playmaker back if Reaves showed he was close to being a primary ballhandler/ playmaker.
But he's not. I love AR but right now he's clearly still a secondary playmaker.
I wonder if people here are watching our games. There are now 6 consecutive games I can recalled Austin having serious problems playmaking for the 2nd unit.
So the Lakers have the 3rd best center in the league and will call the Knicks for their center and offer a PG who is worse than his star PG?
I bought up trading for Mitchell Robinson before the season started, it’s making more sense now especially with Hayes being unplayable almost every night and Wood looking below average
IG...
Who haven't you brought up in a trade?🤣 _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
I bought up trading for Mitchell Robinson before the season started, it’s making more sense now especially with Hayes being unplayable almost every night and Wood looking below average
The adding spare parts philosophy isn't going to be enough. Deficiencies as of Denver playoff series:
1) Guard foot speed - DLo can't, AR can't and Gabe for DS is a downgrade there. Can someone better be had at the cost of say DLO+JHS+picks? Paying more than that kills depth.
2) Quantity/Quality at Forward - Height addressed with Cam/Vando/Prince defensively which is great but who knows when playoffs come about the offense. All 3 lack this currently and it definately was an issue outside of LBJ's playoff contribution.
3) Help for AD - Wood appears to lack both the foot speed and floor stretching that was an issue to offset Jokic/Gordon and Hayes is just a banger with not much else. Hayes if given time on floor probably could mold into a "big" lineup with AD but that would take Ham moving away from the 5 out philosophy. Again, what would be the cost to depth to get someone like MRob if even available?
Looking at the free agent pool and what might be had for the likes of DLO/Vando/Rui contracts and then considering what depth toll that takes, the pickens is slim. Probably should just stand pat unless a miracle player falls from the sky....
The adding spare parts philosophy isn't going to be enough. Deficiencies as of Denver playoff series:
1) Guard foot speed - DLo can't, AR can't and Gabe for DS is a downgrade there. Can someone better be had at the cost of say DLO+JHS+picks? Paying more than that kills depth.
2) Quantity/Quality at Forward - Height addressed with Cam/Vando/Prince defensively which is great but who knows when playoffs come about the offense. All 3 lack this currently and it definately was an issue outside of LBJ's playoff contribution.
3) Help for AD - Wood appears to lack both the foot speed and floor stretching that was an issue to offset Jokic/Gordon and Hayes is just a banger with not much else. Hayes if given time on floor probably could mold into a "big" lineup with AD but that would take Ham moving away from the 5 out philosophy. Again, what would be the cost to depth to get someone like MRob if even available?
Looking at the free agent pool and what might be had for the likes of DLO/Vando/Rui contracts and then considering what depth toll that takes, the pickens is slim. Probably should just stand pat unless a miracle player falls from the sky....
I’m glad we can’t make realistic moves until Jan 15th so that the Lakers can see what they have before making a move prematurely. I prefer to succeed with what we have. However, If the Bulls implode and if it looks like the Lakers need to make an upgrade at the deadline then:
Vin/Fino/AR/Rui/1stRp for LaVine/Caruso/Drummond. This gives Chicago good replacement players (Vin for Caruso, AR for LaVine) and draft capital with Fino and the pick while fitting their needs of a PF with Rui. For the Lakers it makes Dlo the 4th option with LaVine as the 3rd which makes the team much better. Even tho LaVine isn’t considered a good defender, he won’t be hunted on defense like AR while providing better offense as well. The move also provides for the backcourt defense with Caruso. Drummond allows AD to spend some time as backup PF which helps with the missing depth without Rui. The only issue not fixed would be offense at SF but the hope of Cam there and LBJ as well since AD can spend time at PF may be enough with all the other issues addressed.
Still have MaxC/Hayes as 11th/12th emergency deep reserves. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Not to nit pick your idea but this is why a big move is frought with questions especiall for what it would cost and what is left after. For your scenario:
Saw the AD+Drummond movie once before and it didn't work.. Doubt Ham would play Drummond at all.
Of the guard rotation you listed DLo,Caruso,Cam are not enough consistant offense to score with Denver. LaVine helps there but I think he has only been there once with and produced these stats:
We lost to Denver by 6 points, 5 points, 11 points, and 2 points
DLo and Dennis sh*t the bed for us that series.
If both played normally we would be defending champions.
Dennis had failed us not once but twice in key playoff series.
I think he's very talented but I can't blame Rob for changing things up.
He tried to get Bruce Brown first, but then Indiana blindsided him.
Gabe shot 37% from three in four years of college.
He's only played 4 games for us.
Dennis's hot start is already coming back to his average.
Let's see what Gabe does in 20 games before we right him off as a failure.
Our main mistake in the offseason so far was drafting Fino over JJJ.
But when we get Vanderbilt back, that will solve a lot of problems for DLo and AR's defense.
'we got swept and benefitted from an injured Grizz team and a dysfunctional GSW team. The 2 teams we struggled with were a healthy Wolves team that dragged us to OT in the play-in and the nuggs. We can hypothetical this to death. We are barely if any improved from last year and most teams have improved more.
Stein reporting that the Lakers are looking for sparing parts to make Improvement not looking for a splashy move
IG, Marc Stein hasn't been relevant in a decade. He knows nothing and is connected to no one in the Lakers organization.
Beyond that, there is a huge industry built around supplying and making up trade rumors to entertain fans. I'm often skeptical that the rumors have much foundation or that the reporters actually know much. I look at trade rumors not as journalistic reporting, but as a little endorphin jolt to entertain fans for a few hours until the rumor is forgotten and replaced by a new trade rumor.
We lost to Denver by 6 points, 5 points, 11 points, and 2 points
DLo and Dennis sh*t the bed for us that series.
If both played normally we would be defending champions.
Dennis had failed us not once but twice in key playoff series.
I think he's very talented but I can't blame Rob for changing things up.
He tried to get Bruce Brown first, but then Indiana blindsided him.
Gabe shot 37% from three in four years of college.
He's only played 4 games for us.
Dennis's hot start is already coming back to his average.
Let's see what Gabe does in 20 games before we right him off as a failure.
Our main mistake in the offseason so far was drafting Fino over JJJ.
But when we get Vanderbilt back, that will solve a lot of problems for DLo and AR's defense.
If you take the post season contributors for the Lakers last year, we can imagine that the team was only a training camp and a back-up C away from a ship. So in order to get to where they were, and that is the WCF, then get a back up C to build on what we had and plan to use the upgrade…and a training camp…to go farther to the title.
To keep from downgrading and ensuring the most likely path to sustaining the success, the Lakers needed to bring back everyone we had as contributors in the post season:
Dlo/Shro
AR/LW4
LBJ/Van
Rui
AD
Vin may turn out better but as an upgrade it was too marginal and just not significant enough to risk “hoping” he would be better than what we knew we had with the PG in Shro that started almost the entire season and the last game in the playoffs. Being that it would have been the 3rd year with AD/LBJ was enough optimism to override the past playoff struggles, especially since Vincent is unproven as being more effective than Shro looking at the larger sample size of their career. Shro’s hot start isn’t coming back to earth and Vin’s start hasn’t even begun.
As the 4th guard, LW4 showed he was capable of elevating his game to be the most impactful player on the team in the 4th quarter to win it under the pressure of a playoff game and therefore should have been a “no brainer” at vet min.
Wood/Hayes/Prince/Cam seemed like the questionable moves but Cam/Wood looks like the right ones. Not bringing back Shro/LW4, not getting a bruiser C like a Biyombo, and using the BAE for TaP doesn’t look like the right moves. Time may change our stance but that’s how it looks at the moment. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
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