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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5861
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 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Gawddamn, literally made oh boy into just an observer for this thread. ChefLinda’s a maestro.
https://tenor.com/bUq3b.gif
I hope that doesn’t come off as a bait, sub or a dig at dude, so please don’t get it twisted. It was just an observation I noticed. 
As for the topic at hand, remember that DLo got all the leverage now. Granted, Rob did talk dude/Mintz into taking out that implicit NTC with his current 1+1 deal, but can he do it again if the motive is to retain DLo as an asset to potentially flip later.
This time however, it doesn’t have to be a 1+1 deal with a baked in NTC. Mintz/DLo could demand a NTC in a longterm deal (up to 5 years in length) if they so choose to do so and we consent.
| Quote: | | Coon: A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons… |
DLo is a 9 year vet ✔️
And played his rookie & sophomore seasons here before returning to play the last two seasons here, making it 4 seasons total having played as a Laker ✔️
FYI: Bron also can demand a NTC into a longterm deal (capped at 3 years due to over-38 rule). In both cases tho, them dudes must opt out of their current deals via player option and then re-up having their new deals include NTCs.
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4889
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | FWIW everyone. I like DLO. I hope he comes back. I hope he plays well for us this season.
I just want to trade him by the deadline. I don’t want to bet on him again in the playoffs. Especially if we run into Denver. We don’t necessarily have to trade him for a PG. We’ll see if some of our other guards can fill in the roll of PG duties alongside Bron.
I would like to be a bigger team next year come playoff time. |
His salary is not replaceable and that he is valuable enough for us at least for the regular season. But if if we want to win in the playoff, we need someone who has another gear. Most people was opposed to the idea of trading for him for Westbrook but I knew he was a good fit. It’s just that you can’t rely on him in the playoff.
And I know a lot folks here believed he’s good enough as 4th option. Dlo is not and plug in and play type of player. You need to hide him with a strong guard to fortify the perimeter and minimize his shortcoming. And you actually need him to run the team to fully utilized him. That would have been nice if he was elite enough offensively and can rise over the occasion in the playoffs but let’s not fool ourselves. He is what he is. Once playoff rolls again, we gonna be hoping 40 years old Lebron to turn back the clock because you can’t hope on AD to initiate the offense. And of course Dlo will always be an utter failure. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 26020
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Gawddamn, literally made oh boy into just an observer for this thread. ChefLinda’s a maestro.
https://tenor.com/bUq3b.gif
I hope that doesn’t come off as a bait, sub or a dig at dude, so please don’t get it twisted. It was just an observation I noticed.
As for the topic at hand, remember that DLo got all the leverage now. Granted, Rob did talk dude/Mintz into taking out that implicit NTC with his current 1+1 deal, but can he do it again if the motive is to retain DLo as an asset to potentially flip later.
This time however, it doesn’t have to be a 1+1 deal with a baked in NTC. Mintz/DLo could demand a NTC in a longterm deal (up to 5 years in length) if they so choose to do so and we consent.
| Quote: | | Coon: A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons… |
DLo is a 9 year vet ✔️
And played his rookie & sophomore seasons here before returning to play the last two seasons here, making it 4 seasons total having played as a Laker ✔️
FYI: Bron also can demand a NTC into a longterm deal (capped at 3 years due to over-38 rule). In both cases tho, them dudes must opt out of their current deals via player option and then re-up having their new deals include NTCs. |
Just… observed, she’s cooking for real
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Gawddamn, literally made oh boy into just an observer for this thread. ChefLinda’s a maestro.
https://tenor.com/bUq3b.gif
I hope that doesn’t come off as a bait, sub or a dig at dude, so please don’t get it twisted. It was just an observation I noticed.
As for the topic at hand, remember that DLo got all the leverage now. Granted, Rob did talk dude/Mintz into taking out that implicit NTC with his current 1+1 deal, but can he do it again if the motive is to retain DLo as an asset to potentially flip later.
This time however, it doesn’t have to be a 1+1 deal with a baked in NTC. Mintz/DLo could demand a NTC in a longterm deal (up to 5 years in length) if they so choose to do so and we consent.
| Quote: | | Coon: A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons… |
DLo is a 9 year vet ✔️
And played his rookie & sophomore seasons here before returning to play the last two seasons here, making it 4 seasons total having played as a Laker ✔️
FYI: Bron also can demand a NTC into a longterm deal (capped at 3 years due to over-38 rule). In both cases tho, them dudes must opt out of their current deals via player option and then re-up having their new deals include NTCs. |
Dlo gave concessions last year for the Lakers as he signed a tradeable contract at a discount and played for the team knowing they wanted to move him. I don’t expect him to concede a second time by agreeing to a sign&trade. It’s the Lakers turn to concede (3/54PO and that’s lowballing) or the asset will be lost. It would be another tragedy if the Westbrook transaction…which would be the case if Dlo walks for nothing…ended up being Vanderbilt for Kuzma/KCP/Trez + 2FRPs.
I’m not even in favor or signing him expecting a trade…make him a part of the plan for at least 1 full year …build a team in the offseason capable of competing for a ship and commit to it. That’s the best way to start a season strong and get players to buy in with a commitment of their own.
Reading the tea leaves tho I expect the Lakers to be lottery next season. Hope I’m wrong.
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akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3062
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Gawddamn, literally made oh boy into just an observer for this thread. ChefLinda’s a maestro.
https://tenor.com/bUq3b.gif
I hope that doesn’t come off as a bait, sub or a dig at dude, so please don’t get it twisted. It was just an observation I noticed.
As for the topic at hand, remember that DLo got all the leverage now. Granted, Rob did talk dude/Mintz into taking out that implicit NTC with his current 1+1 deal, but can he do it again if the motive is to retain DLo as an asset to potentially flip later.
This time however, it doesn’t have to be a 1+1 deal with a baked in NTC. Mintz/DLo could demand a NTC in a longterm deal (up to 5 years in length) if they so choose to do so and we consent.
| Quote: | | Coon: A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons… |
DLo is a 9 year vet ✔️
And played his rookie & sophomore seasons here before returning to play the last two seasons here, making it 4 seasons total having played as a Laker ✔️
FYI: Bron also can demand a NTC into a longterm deal (capped at 3 years due to over-38 rule). In both cases tho, them dudes must opt out of their current deals via player option and then re-up having their new deals include NTCs. |
Dlo gave concessions last year for the Lakers as he signed a tradeable contract at a discount and played for the team knowing they wanted to move him. I don’t expect him to concede a second time by agreeing to a sign&trade. It’s the Lakers turn to concede (3/54PO and that’s lowballing) or the asset will be lost. It would be another tragedy if the Westbrook transaction…which would be the case if Dlo walks for nothing…ended up being Vanderbilt for Kuzma/KCP/Trez + 2FRPs.
I’m not even in favor or signing him expecting a trade…make him a part of the plan for at least 1 full year …build a team in the offseason capable of competing for a ship and commit to it. That’s the best way to start a season strong and get players to buy in with a commitment of their own.
Reading the tea leaves tho I expect the Lakers to be lottery next season. Hope I’m wrong. |
What exactly did Dlo concede? It's clear he signed that contract because his offers were not good. Who knows if he even got any offers from other teams. He didn't do the Lakers any favors. He as he should, was looking out for himself. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 18152
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | tox wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Rui has already proven he is a playoff performer and his issues could easily be pointed to as a temporary loss of confidence due to just being bad in a matchup with Denver where he cant guard Jokic, cant outrebound Gordon and really cant guard MPJ. |
Is he? He sucked against the Warriors too last year.
He was great against Memphis. Good against Denver in '23. Bad against Golden State in '23. Horrible, horrible against Denver in '24.
Similar track record to DLO, all things considered (horrible against Denver in '23, bad against Denver in '24, pretty good against Memphis and Golden State in '23) |
Rui has his issues for sure. However, Rui being bad does not mean other players get a pass. It means we probably need to improve both positions. |
The problem so often, Rui has gotten a pass. And the narrative for whatever reason is he's been good in the playoffs. Which isn't the case. He's been very up and down just like DLO. Really all down in these past playoffs. And they make a similar amount of money. Yet we don't see as much hate towards Rui as we do DLO. Just curious to me.
I agree we should look to upgrade one of those spots. Rui is more likely to me that we can get an upgrade.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Ksig
Star Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2193
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | defense wrote: | | tox wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Rui has already proven he is a playoff performer and his issues could easily be pointed to as a temporary loss of confidence due to just being bad in a matchup with Denver where he cant guard Jokic, cant outrebound Gordon and really cant guard MPJ. |
Is he? He sucked against the Warriors too last year.
He was great against Memphis. Good against Denver in '23. Bad against Golden State in '23. Horrible, horrible against Denver in '24.
Similar track record to DLO, all things considered (horrible against Denver in '23, bad against Denver in '24, pretty good against Memphis and Golden State in '23) |
Rui has his issues for sure. However, Rui being bad does not mean other players get a pass. It means we probably need to improve both positions. |
The problem so often, Rui has gotten a pass. And the narrative for whatever reason is he's been good in the playoffs. Which isn't the case. He's been very up and down just like DLO. Really all down in these past playoffs. And they make a similar amount of money. Yet we don't see as much hate towards Rui as we do DLO. Just curious to me.
I agree we should look to upgrade one of those spots. Rui is more likely to me that we can get an upgrade. |
Rui was very good for us in last years playoffs. 12 pts 3.6 rebounds but on 56%/49% shooting. Thats as good as it gets for like a fifth option. He didnt get many shots but he made those that he did at an incredible rate.
Rui this year while bad still shot 40%/36%. Like its bad but his 3pt shooting was acceptable.
Rui having to guard Jokic is such a huge mismatch that people are understanding if he has a bad series. DLO on the other hand doesnt even guard Murray. Austin was Murrays primary defender. DLO is so bad on defense that AR (someone who is also pretty bad on defense) had to pick up slack for him.
Rui isnt one dimensional on offense. DLOs entire game is predicated on if he hits 3 pt shots. Rui has shown he can shoot fadeaways/middies, post up, drive to the basket, and puts pressure on the rim.
Dont get me wrong if we can upgrade Rui as well then by all means. He doesnt have a very high motor and barely uses his size to his advantage. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 18152
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 40395
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
Rui is mild mannered and the expectations are lower for him. Dlo kinda behaves like he thinks he is an all star. I think people are being biased because of that among other things. Also LG likes to exaggerate. Its how we roll.
We could use an upgrade for both of them, but I don't think we will find 2 players better for under 35 million. |
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akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3062
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
What is so fascinating about it? Dlo is touted as the third option behind Lebron and AD. The only reason he is getting paid like Rui is because of how massively he underperformed last season.
Rui's playoff numbers are significantly better than Dlo's.
The issue with Rui is his basketball IQ. People feel as if that is an easier fix, than fixing Dlo's lack of athleticism, ability to drive, ability to defend, ability to make winning plays, etc. Rui has the athleticism and ability to score in a variety of ways. Rui also has the physical tools to at least be a decent to good defender. Dlo doesn't have any of these things. So Rui may be more "liked" because there's at least some hope. But yes, Rui is flawed as well. His knock his entire career has been his lack of feel for the game.
Rui got a lot of flak for his playoff performance this year. Dlo gets criticized more heavily because 1) this is two years in a row 2) he's a much more polarizing player and I would argue a lot of it is his own doing. You aren't going to win over fans with a lack of effort and stupid quotes you never back up. You don't really need to understand basketball to see a person giving low effort and overall being a liability. Dlo has one of the lowest motors in the league. He plays extremely soft and overall doesn't seem to care. These are all qualities of a losing basketball player, which he has been for the vast majority of his career.
Why wouldn't fans go after him? |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 31099
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Oh wow, this thread is now readable. Imagine that.
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Ksig
Star Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2193
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
What is so fascinating about it? Dlo is touted as the third option behind Lebron and AD. The only reason he is getting paid like Rui is because of how massively he underperformed last season.
Rui's playoff numbers are significantly better than Dlo's.
The issue with Rui is his basketball IQ. People feel as if that is an easier fix, than fixing Dlo's lack of athleticism, ability to drive, ability to defend, ability to make winning plays, etc. Rui has the athleticism and ability to score in a variety of ways. Rui also has the physical tools to at least be a decent to good defender. Dlo doesn't have any of these things. So Rui may be more "liked" because there's at least some hope. But yes, Rui is flawed as well. His knock his entire career has been his lack of feel for the game.
Rui got a lot of flak for his playoff performance this year. Dlo gets criticized more heavily because 1) this is two years in a row 2) he's a much more polarizing player and I would argue a lot of it is his own doing. You aren't going to win over fans with a lack of effort and stupid quotes you never back up. You don't really need to understand basketball to see a person giving low effort and overall being a liability. Dlo has one of the lowest motors in the league. He plays extremely soft and overall doesn't seem to care. These are all qualities of a losing basketball player, which he has been for the vast majority of his career.
Why wouldn't fans go after him? |
Yes that is also it. Rui has the physical tools that you could hold out hope he puts it together and is also younger. DLO doesnt have any physical tools. Hes about as slow and unathletic as they come.
Their demeanor also plays a part. DLO has had his fair share of media moments, Rui is quiet and reserved and doesnt (bleep) talk that can backfire on him. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 7792
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
Both got paid that offseason and both got paid based on their performance and value.
Rui got a raise
DLO had to take a paycut with no market. |
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LakerFan1987
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Joined: 30 Oct 2022
Posts: 1830
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
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LakersMD
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 8109
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Oh wow, this thread is now readable. Imagine that. |
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1852
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
It's really just not true. Even when his shots aren't falling he has been constantly the biggest hype man on the team. First guy off the bench celebrating his teammates success. |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 30174
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
Rui is far from untouchabble in my book.
What you are missing with the bolded is, throughout his career, DLO has played more the 4 playoff series total. And the decline throughout his career from Regular season to playoffs is AWFUL.
It's been posted a million times. But the playoff shooting split difference between the two players over their careers is not even close.
Rui: 54/48/76 (26 games)
DLO: 39/33/77 (32 games)
But if we can upgrade the Rui minutes, I'd be willing to entertain that as well.
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When the world grows. Grow with it. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 7792
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Rui has had 2 good series-Memphis/Denver in 2023
2 bad series-GS in 2023/Denver 2024
DLO 2 good series-Memphis/GS in 2023
2 bad series both vs Denver.
Both make same amount of money, both arent good defenders. Period. Rui had a number of break downs vs Denver.
One guy is treated like the next Lauri Markkanen. The other is treated like Chucky Atkins. Front office is partly to blame for over paying for Rui for no reason.
DLO has his flaws, I won't debate that. You will probably need another guard off the bench you can count on in the playoffs if you want to contend (hello Kris Dunn or DeAnthony Melton). I just find the narratives all fascinating to watch. |
Rui is far from untouchabble in my book.
What you are missing with the bolded is, throughout his career, DLO has played more the 4 playoff series total. And the decline throughout his career from Regular season to playoffs is AWFUL.
It's been posted a million times. But the playoff shooting split difference between the two players over their careers is not even close.
Rui: 54/48/76 (26 games)
DLO: 39/33/77 (32 games)
But if we can upgrade the Rui minutes, I'd be willing to entertain that as well. |
We all know they can't bring the same roster back next year. That roster can't win. Are we willing to bring back the same roster and take another chance to see if DLO somehow change in the playoffs?
Both guys need to be upgraded, if we could. We already know what the FO feel about Lebron/AD/AR. That leaves you with DLO/RUI/Vando/Gabe + picks to find an upgrade.
If it comes down between DLO and Rui... I'm sorry I just prefer Rui. If you can move DLO/Rui together for a 3rd star while keeping AR. I'm down for that too. |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4428
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs  .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3062
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo. |
Two things though. How much is that shooting and playmaking worth, when he has so many boneheaded plays and concedes easy baskets to the other team? So many times it's a pure lack of effort on his part.
And secondly, what is the point of that shooting and playmaking when on 4 separate playoff occasions the shooting and playmaking disappear once it turns April?
I understand he's important during the regular season and I also understand it will be hard to replace him due to the cap constraints. But ultimately, I am sure of this; he is a losing player. I feel like it's better to cut bait as soon as possible. Ideally that would mean signing him to a very reasonable contract and trading him as the season progresses. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo. |
Two things though. How much is that shooting and playmaking worth, when he has so many boneheaded plays and concedes easy baskets to the other team? So many times it's a pure lack of effort on his part.
And secondly, what is the point of that shooting and playmaking when on 4 separate playoff occasions the shooting and playmaking disappear once it turns April?
I understand he's important during the regular season and I also understand it will be hard to replace him due to the cap constraints. But ultimately, I am sure of this; he is a losing player. I feel like it's better to cut bait as soon as possible. Ideally that would mean signing him to a very reasonable contract and trading him as the season progresses. |
I see a player that is only 1 of 6 players in the NBA that hit >40% from 3pt while making > 3 per game and Dlo makes about half the $ of most of them as a 3rd option with the others mostly 1st/2nd options. In addition to that he also finished in the top 20 in assists. I see a player too that has significantly more excellent games…this includes the post season too when you can ignore the false narrative and check it out for yourself…than disastrous ones. But the emotion and disgust I felt during game 3 when Dlo scored ZERO points is something I don’t want to ever experience again, so if we can upgrade then yea.
Ultimately tho, we see his value differently if you’re ok with dumping for nothing. I’m just not with that and it’s ok if we disagree, we just see things differently and that’s fine too.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4428
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo. |
Yeah, I can respect that opinion.. I was more so talking about people that still believe he's going to become something he's clearly not. You're using his regular Season numbers though which I have ZERO concern with DLo in that respect, nearly all of my concerns stem from his entire Career in the Post Season and I was saying this before he even rejoined the Lakers but had hoped he'd turn it around but instead has mostly just been about the same.
I do agree just letting him walk will likely make us quite a bit worse overall which is what I meant when I said we'll likely keep him due to our dire situation overall.. I'm all for s&t him if he's even open to that or paying his current salary but I would happily watch him walk if he tried to threaten the Lakers to sign with someone else if we don't give him a longer contract. Hard pass on that.
It's been the same song and dance with multiple teams and Coaches over his NBA Career. Even in College, his scouting report stated that he was known to vanish against superior defensive teams and thrive against the weaker competition.. He was also a fairly weak defender in College but there was hope he'd improve and at least become solid but those concerns from College are still nearly exactly the same an entire decade later.
I wanted to be wrong as I actually love his attitude/vibe when things are going well (aka the regular Season) and he gets his teammates all hyped along with the crowd and it's awesome seeing a past young Laker on the team again but i'm just over it at this point and don't really care what happens with him as long as they don't sign him to a longer term contract. Like akk7 said, he's a losing player that throws up a mirage to trick fans every regular Season only to show his true self in the Post Season. |
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hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4428
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo. |
Two things though. How much is that shooting and playmaking worth, when he has so many boneheaded plays and concedes easy baskets to the other team? So many times it's a pure lack of effort on his part.
And secondly, what is the point of that shooting and playmaking when on 4 separate playoff occasions the shooting and playmaking disappear once it turns April?
I understand he's important during the regular season and I also understand it will be hard to replace him due to the cap constraints. But ultimately, I am sure of this; he is a losing player. I feel like it's better to cut bait as soon as possible. Ideally that would mean signing him to a very reasonable contract and trading him as the season progresses. |
I see a player that is only 1 of 6 players in the NBA that hit >40% from 3pt while making > 3 per game and Dlo makes about half the $ of most of them as a 3rd option with the others mostly 1st/2nd options. In addition to that he also finished in the top 20 in assists. I see a player too that has significantly more excellent games…this includes the post season too when you can ignore the false narrative and check it out for yourself…than disastrous ones. But the emotion and disgust I felt during game 3 when Dlo scored ZERO points is something I don’t want to ever experience again, so if we can upgrade then yea.
Ultimately tho, we see his value differently if you’re ok with dumping for nothing. I’m just not with that and it’s ok if we disagree, we just see things differently and that’s fine too. |
Once again, you're using regular Season stats.. I doubt many people here have any problem with him whatsoever in that regard.. It's not a false narrative as fans of his past teams were literally making comments about him falling apart in the Playoffs for us when he originally re-signed here, this is all nothing remotely new. His entire Career in the Playoffs is flat out pathetic when compared to his rs numbers.. Using your logic is why teams kept giving Harden a bunch of chances as a top option (Look at those ELITE regular Season numbers). All players have rough games/series here and there but when you notice a decade+ long pattern it might be time to rethink things. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | hype wrote: | | LakerFan1987 wrote: | The difference is Rui plays hard and you can see it.
DLo when his shots aren't falling tends to check out.
Simple as that. |
Couldn't agree more.. Dude COMPLETELY checks out and much of the time can't even make basic level passes anymore.. It's insanely frustrating to watch as a fan because when his confidence is riding high and he hits a few he's suddenly the greatest teammate ever, dropping dimes, hustling way more on defense and can light up the scoreboard about as good as any 3rd option in the entire NBA. It's wild that same guy can be literally benched in the biggest games of an entire Season when his extraordinarily fragile mental state gets bad.
I can't believe there are actually still Laker fans that believe he's going to turn it around at this point.. He's about to be a 10 Year Vet, this is who he is for the good and bad (It's def. not just the last two Seasons of Playoffs either, it's his entire damn Career). I'll always hope for the best as long as he remains a Laker but my confidence is hovering around 0.37% give or take a few hundrendths.
I get us possibly just having to keep him due to our dire situation and we'll see it all over again when he plays good in the regular Season and we'll have a bunch of fans saying he's "different this Season" only to crumble all over again in the Playoffs at some point. This reminds me of Cowboys fans thinking next Year Dak is finally going to prove the World wrong and excel in the Playoffs .
| Code: | | SPOILER : It's not going to happen. |
|
I want to clarify my support of Dlo to put it in proper context. It’s not so much taking up for Dlo or thinking he’s a missing piece. He’s not that, and I’m not thinking that. It’s more of assessing the value to the rest of the team in spreading the floor and playmaking. With the current cap situation it would be difficult to replace that and upgrade other areas at the same time.
I would much rather have a better defender, and even if their 3pt% was slightly lower (~38%ish instead of Dlo’s ~42%), and their assists were slightly lower (~4ish instead of Dlo’s ~6), if they had the 3pt volume without excessive turnovers, then I would prefer the defensive upgrade thinking it would be worth the trade off.
Conversely, if we can’t find/add a replacement and upgrade other areas, I don’t want to just let him walk for nothing. I see that as a sizable downgrade overall since that would amount to having to choose between:
- replacing or doing without high volume/efficient 3pt shooting & playmaking
or
-upgrading other areas
instead of having both, an upgrade in other areas AND 3pt shooting with playmaking.
I get it man, looking at his performance in a vacuum, that game 3 goose egg was almost unforgivable as Dlo let us down when needed the most. Despite that, dumping him without upgrading the team overall would only lead to more headaches tho imo. |
Two things though. How much is that shooting and playmaking worth, when he has so many boneheaded plays and concedes easy baskets to the other team? So many times it's a pure lack of effort on his part.
And secondly, what is the point of that shooting and playmaking when on 4 separate playoff occasions the shooting and playmaking disappear once it turns April?
I understand he's important during the regular season and I also understand it will be hard to replace him due to the cap constraints. But ultimately, I am sure of this; he is a losing player. I feel like it's better to cut bait as soon as possible. Ideally that would mean signing him to a very reasonable contract and trading him as the season progresses. |
I see a player that is only 1 of 6 players in the NBA that hit >40% from 3pt while making > 3 per game and Dlo makes about half the $ of most of them as a 3rd option with the others mostly 1st/2nd options. In addition to that he also finished in the top 20 in assists. I see a player too that has significantly more excellent games…this includes the post season too when you can ignore the false narrative and check it out for yourself…than disastrous ones. But the emotion and disgust I felt during game 3 when Dlo scored ZERO points is something I don’t want to ever experience again, so if we can upgrade then yea.
Ultimately tho, we see his value differently if you’re ok with dumping for nothing. I’m just not with that and it’s ok if we disagree, we just see things differently and that’s fine too. |
Once again, you're using regular Season stats.. I doubt many people here have any problem with him whatsoever in that regard.. It's not a false narrative as fans of his past teams were literally making comments about him falling apart in the Playoffs for us when he originally re-signed here, this is all nothing remotely new. His entire Career in the Playoffs is flat out pathetic when compared to his rs numbers.. Using your logic is why teams kept giving Harden a bunch of chances as a top option (Look at those ELITE regular Season numbers). All players have rough games/series here and there but when you notice a decade+ long pattern it might be time to rethink things. |
Nah, not just talking about regular season, see the bold above. Check out Dlo’s production in that context as a 3rd option making half the $ of most other playoff team’s 3rd option. A lot of of the exaggerated criticism looks like a false narrative to me, like “never have shown the ability to shoot”, “utter failure”, “always bad”.
I wouldn’t want to count on Dlo as a 2nd option, wouldn’t pay him much more, and I’d even want a 4th option that has the ability to surpass him. I would like an upgrade over Dlo defensively as well if the 3pt/playmaking can be somewhat compensated for. But imo the negative characterization aligns with a 2nd option making $30m+, that rarely has any good games, not a 3rd option at $17m that has more good games than bad.
The good may not be enough in some eyes to outweigh the bad, I can understand that mode of thinking, but the sentiment is exaggerated. We don’t have to pretend, we can still dislike him and want him gone without ignoring the good. It’s cool if we disagree. Some see it differently and that’s ok with me, not trying to convince anyone, just stating what I see.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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