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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 41808
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 Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Japago wrote: | When you look at how the game is played in the olympics AND the playoffs, your core lineup has to be mostly filled with guys who play defense.
I don't care how much the Lakers improve around the margins, as long as all of DLo, AR, Rui, and even LeBron are part of the core, the Lakers will be giving up too much on defense.
Just getting a big isn't going to solve much of the Lakers' issues. Even with rebounding, I think having non-bigs who are active, box-out, and have good instincts is more important that just getting another big. |
I don't think the Lakers are that far. Playoff LeBron is fine.
IMO the Lakers' roster mostly has those guys, yeah Rui & Knecht probably aren't ideal but especially off the bench they're fine. The Lakers' issues are mostly because Reaves & Russell both have that same issue. IF Reaves has made a playmaking/ primary initiator leap:
Vando/Reddish/FRP => WCJ, DLO/JHS/Wood => Brown works cap-wise
Now you have:
Reaves/ Brown/ LeBron/ AD/ WCJ
Vincent/ Christie/ Knecht/ Rui/ Hayes
Lewis & Bronny are G-Leaguers.
Three open spots for vet mins
I think Brown is a worse player than Russell in a vacuum. But he has all the intangibles Russell lacks. He's a strong rebounder, he has defensive versatility which lets you slot LeBron on the weaker wing. WCJ lets you slot AD at the 4 without losing spacing. So you're really supporting your two stars. This team is thin on playmaking but what you have is mostly 2-way players. In the playoffs Hayes and Knecht probably exit the rotation for a solid 8-man rotation of 2-way players (Reaves is a perfectly adequate "worst defender in the lineup").
And what's also nice is that for any sort of buyout candidate you'll have rotation space which means you might get an upgrade where you need it.
I'm assuming Bruce Brown's market is bad because no way I trade a FRP for him though. |
I feel like guys like Vando, Christie and Reaves will be key for us. They are the ones that can impact the game enough to try to fill in some of our holes.
defense
rebounding
energy
We need to offset the methodical nature of guys like Lebron, Davis, Russell and Rui. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 56836
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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jankobe
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 836
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| I think LAKERS will run it back (roster) with a new Head Coach. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 18412
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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And he has basically stolen $210 million over the past 7 seasons.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 41808
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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And he has basically stolen $210 million over the past 7 seasons. |
He was a great player before the injuries. He won't be the first or last to be grossly overpaid. Bradley Beal would like a word.
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8704
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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And he has basically stolen $210 million over the past 7 seasons. |
If it is given, it can't be theft. |
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Lakeshow23_
Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Japago wrote: | When you look at how the game is played in the olympics AND the playoffs, your core lineup has to be mostly filled with guys who play defense.
I don't care how much the Lakers improve around the margins, as long as all of DLo, AR, Rui, and even LeBron are part of the core, the Lakers will be giving up too much on defense.
Just getting a big isn't going to solve much of the Lakers' issues. Even with rebounding, I think having non-bigs who are active, box-out, and have good instincts is more important that just getting another big. |
I don't think the Lakers are that far. Playoff LeBron is fine.
IMO the Lakers' roster mostly has those guys, yeah Rui & Knecht probably aren't ideal but especially off the bench they're fine. The Lakers' issues are mostly because Reaves & Russell both have that same issue. IF Reaves has made a playmaking/ primary initiator leap:
Vando/Reddish/FRP => WCJ, DLO/JHS/Wood => Brown works cap-wise
Now you have:
Reaves/ Brown/ LeBron/ AD/ WCJ
Vincent/ Christie/ Knecht/ Rui/ Hayes
Lewis & Bronny are G-Leaguers.
Three open spots for vet mins
I think Brown is a worse player than Russell in a vacuum. But he has all the intangibles Russell lacks. He's a strong rebounder, he has defensive versatility which lets you slot LeBron on the weaker wing. WCJ lets you slot AD at the 4 without losing spacing. So you're really supporting your two stars. This team is thin on playmaking but what you have is mostly 2-way players. In the playoffs Hayes and Knecht probably exit the rotation for a solid 8-man rotation of 2-way players (Reaves is a perfectly adequate "worst defender in the lineup").
And what's also nice is that for any sort of buyout candidate you'll have rotation space which means you might get an upgrade where you need it.
I'm assuming Bruce Brown's market is bad because no way I trade a FRP for him though. |
I’m skeptical adding Brown makes us a better team. He hasn’t looked the same outside of the Denver ecosystem. I fancy him as like a rich man’s Vando in a sense, at least offensively, he’s like a PF/C on offense and does a lot of his damage as a roll man. I don’t think we have enough shooting to make that style of play effective.
Last edited by Lakeshow23_ on Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aphex Twin
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Looks like we have to give up the dream of adding Gordon Hayward. Good job, Mitch. |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7997
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| 90 year old Luol Deng at least did something good with his overpay he received from the Lakers. He financed the South Sudan basketball team in the Olympics. |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 49853
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chuma Okeke to Knicks |
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lakersfan32
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 4774
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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i think rob can get him to change his mind with a vet min + player option deal |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 21052
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Japago wrote: | When you look at how the game is played in the olympics AND the playoffs, your core lineup has to be mostly filled with guys who play defense.
I don't care how much the Lakers improve around the margins, as long as all of DLo, AR, Rui, and even LeBron are part of the core, the Lakers will be giving up too much on defense.
Just getting a big isn't going to solve much of the Lakers' issues. Even with rebounding, I think having non-bigs who are active, box-out, and have good instincts is more important that just getting another big. |
I don't think the Lakers are that far. Playoff LeBron is fine.
IMO the Lakers' roster mostly has those guys, yeah Rui & Knecht probably aren't ideal but especially off the bench they're fine. The Lakers' issues are mostly because Reaves & Russell both have that same issue. IF Reaves has made a playmaking/ primary initiator leap:
Vando/Reddish/FRP => WCJ, DLO/JHS/Wood => Brown works cap-wise
Now you have:
Reaves/ Brown/ LeBron/ AD/ WCJ
Vincent/ Christie/ Knecht/ Rui/ Hayes
Lewis & Bronny are G-Leaguers.
Three open spots for vet mins
I think Brown is a worse player than Russell in a vacuum. But he has all the intangibles Russell lacks. He's a strong rebounder, he has defensive versatility which lets you slot LeBron on the weaker wing. WCJ lets you slot AD at the 4 without losing spacing. So you're really supporting your two stars. This team is thin on playmaking but what you have is mostly 2-way players. In the playoffs Hayes and Knecht probably exit the rotation for a solid 8-man rotation of 2-way players (Reaves is a perfectly adequate "worst defender in the lineup").
And what's also nice is that for any sort of buyout candidate you'll have rotation space which means you might get an upgrade where you need it.
I'm assuming Bruce Brown's market is bad because no way I trade a FRP for him though. |
I’m skeptical adding Brown makes us a better team. He hasn’t looked the same outside of the Denver ecosystem. I fancy him as a like a rich man’s Vando in a sense, at least offensively, he’s like a PF/C on offense and does a lot of his damage as a roll man. I don’t think we have enough shooting to make that style of play effective. |
He has the one thing Vando desperately needs: credibility as a 3 point threat. He is not a good shooter, the downgrade from Russell to Brown is incredible. But you won't just ignore him in the corner like you can ignore Vando. Losing Russell opens up a lot of offensive issues especially in the regular season, but in the playoffs when LeBron plays more on ball, it's less of an issue. I also intentionally kept Vincent in this trade because I think he becomes significantly more important as he starts to have a role much closer to the '23 playoff run.
The roster listed above will have some offensive issues which is why it's predicated on a leap from Reaves as a playmaker, but I think the defensive ceiling is way higher. And you don't have guys like Reddish & Vando how are strong defenders but borderline unplayable on offense
This isn't a home run but that's also why it's possible to make this kind of deal without (hopefully) losing some FRPs in the process. Also, Brown was quite good with the Nets, he was just underlooked and undervalued. If he was a Jokic merchant, why not make him a LeBron/AD merchant? |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 49853
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Tomorrow is the day Knecht is eligible to be traded, I hope we get a Shams bomb or a Woj bomb on the Lakers discussing a Lauri Markkanen trade, Vasashi17… any feeling on what might happen tomorrow? |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 31900
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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And he has basically stolen $210 million over the past 7 seasons. |
He was a great player before the injuries. He won't be the first or last to be grossly overpaid. Bradley Beal would like a word.
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AND his longtime running mate John Wall.
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KOBE |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 30413
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | After 14 NBA seasons, Gordon Hayward is retiring. Hayward, 34, was a 2017 NBA All-Star in Utah and played for the Jazz, Celtics, Hornets and Thunder across his career. He was the No. 9 pick in the 2010 Draft after starring at Butler. |
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Had his career ruined/entirely changed by being undercut in his debut game with the Celtics vs the Cavs. I remember that night exponentially. Felt bad for him then, still feel bad for him now. He felt like he was really about to take off.
Good career regardless though all things considered. Happy retirement for him.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Aphex Twin
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| IT, Kyrie, and Hayward, among others, became worse players after leaving the Celtics. That says a lot about the Celtics |
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 34322
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Aphex Twin wrote: | | IT, Kyrie, and Hayward, among others, became worse players after leaving the Celtics. That says a lot about the Celtics |
IT got hurt while with the Celtics, and that injury basically ended his career even if he hung in the league for a few more years.
Same with Hayward.
Kyrie is still an amazing player. He sunk himself with his anti-vaccine stance in Brooklyn and was a very good contributor to the Mavs finals run this last season. He also wasn’t that hot with the Celtics, and they were actually arguably better with him off the court than with him on the court with them. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 30413
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Aphex Twin wrote: | | IT, Kyrie, and Hayward, among others, became worse players after leaving the Celtics. That says a lot about the Celtics |
The Celtics want hurt players to play through things. Players decided to leave teams for doing that.
Thomas did the 'company thing' and played through it for the Celtics... for them to show him no loyalty whatsoever when it effected his career going forward.
They aren't going to pay you in solidarity for breaking your back for them, that is why there is no true loyalty in the NBA, ESPECIALLY from the owners to their players. Kyrie was hated for not playing through injury on the Celtics and potentially hurting his career. Thomas played through injury, got all the praise doing it, but where were they AFTER? Exactly. And where is Thomas now? Exactly.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 13764
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Tomorrow is the day Knecht is eligible to be traded, I hope we get a Shams bomb or a Woj bomb on the Lakers discussing a Lauri Markkanen trade, Vasashi17… any feeling on what might happen tomorrow? |
Why in the hell do you want Knecht traded already? Dude just got here.
Also, the Lakers are not in any type of discussion or running for Lauri. Utah looking for a haul of picks that the Lakers don't have. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9591
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I'll only look to move DLO and Gabe using Cam/Lewis/JHS as fillers, if we can upgrade our PG/SG/C positions.
Any combination of Reaves/Rui/Vando/Knecht along with the players on top for legitimate 3rd star.
If not just run it back and make adjustment moves at the trade deadline.
Last edited by miggz23 on Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 13852
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I've never seen so many 50+ point leads from an NBA game like the Celtics did last season. Was the East that bad or were the Celtics that stacked?
They beat the Mavs so easily even without Porky and Tatum wasn't playing like a superstar. Jrue should be the prototypical guard in the league: defense, rebound, steal, scoring. KCP is like the closest guy to him but too bad he ain't playing for MLE to contend for a ring. The man needed his moola.
Still fuming at Milwaukee for trading Jrue to Foston. How many more years do we have to root against Foston? We need to get to the Finals ourselves and smack them dirty green.
Foston will get a free ride to the NBA Finals in good health and well-rested while the West Champ would have to battle thru hell all tired and banged up. Not sure if Luka was injured or not but if that's how he plays defense, he's not a superstar.
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Lukasm (noun): the satisfaction of watching Luka Doncic play over winning a championship.
If the Lakers won a championship by 2028, then I would tattoo "Pelinka is the greatest GM ever" on my left forearm. |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 13799
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I expect to enjoy this season as one of the last (if not the last) that we will have the opportunity to see LeBron James play. Laker fans got that opportunity with Kareem, though not Magic. Then we had the chance with Kobe and will now have the chance with LeBron.
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The King, the Don and the Daddy walk into the arena... |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 49853
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Tomorrow is the day Knecht is eligible to be traded, I hope we get a Shams bomb or a Woj bomb on the Lakers discussing a Lauri Markkanen trade, Vasashi17… any feeling on what might happen tomorrow? |
Why in the hell do you want Knecht traded already? Dude just got here.
Also, the Lakers are not in any type of discussion or running for Lauri. Utah looking for a haul of picks that the Lakers don't have. |
AD and LeBron are primed for a great season and even if Knecht is a talented player if we have the chance to get someone like Markkanen or Garland to give this team a good chance in the next 2 years the FO would be foolish to prioritize youth over winning, Lakers can trade 2 valuable 1st round picks right now to the Jazz… the 2027 1st round pick is gonna be super valuable to Ainge and the Jazz cause the Lakers will likely be rebuilding by then |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9591
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Tomorrow is the day Knecht is eligible to be traded, I hope we get a Shams bomb or a Woj bomb on the Lakers discussing a Lauri Markkanen trade, Vasashi17… any feeling on what might happen tomorrow? |
Why in the hell do you want Knecht traded already? Dude just got here.
Also, the Lakers are not in any type of discussion or running for Lauri. Utah looking for a haul of picks that the Lakers don't have. |
AD and LeBron are primed for a great season and even if Knecht is a talented player if we have the chance to get someone like Markkanen or Garland to give this team a good chance in the next 2 years the FO would be foolish to prioritize youth over winning, Lakers can trade 2 valuable 1st round picks right now to the Jazz… the 2027 1st round pick is gonna be super valuable to Ainge and the Jazz cause the Lakers will likely be rebuilding by then |
Going to be interesting if Ainge gives Lauri his extension before he trades him. His price might go up if a team can get him for 3-4yrs locked in. Also that means it will require more salary to match.
It will also make him ineligible to be traded for 6mos. If he signs after Aug6, he can't be traded at all this season. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 15553
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Tomorrow is the day Knecht is eligible to be traded, I hope we get a Shams bomb or a Woj bomb on the Lakers discussing a Lauri Markkanen trade, Vasashi17… any feeling on what might happen tomorrow? |
we’re keeping Knecht
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