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C M B
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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 Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:08 pm Post subject: Churning |
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Who here is on the vanillagift, rakuten, centurion lounge infinite money glitch train?
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 30128
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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How does it work?
Never heard of it.
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C M B
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 20086
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | How does it work?
Never heard of it. |
Churning is, generally, milking perks from financial/retail institutions at little to no cost to yourself. It might take busywork and chump change but that's where you get to decide how much it's worth it Like when Amex or Chase have signup bonuses of 80,000+ points. Sign up for the card, spend the minimum to get the whatever the bonus may be, which is worth a great deal more than the annual fee, then cancel the card. You've just churned.
I'll share one that I ditched because I have tired of the process: A couple of years ago I ordered a beautyrest mattress while logged in to rakuten, and that day rakuten was doing 15% cashback on purchases. The mattress was $4k+ so I expected a nice 15% kickback. Turns out that the order went through 5 times on their end. I found this out when 5 mattresses showed up at my house on the same day. Obviously, I wasn't going to keep these, so I called customer service to process the returns immediately. The returns went through, but weeks had passed and I noticed that rakuten did not claw back the 4x 15% bonuses. I decided I wanted to try out at least one mattress every month between may 2022-december 2023 any time rakuten offered at least 10% cashback. Scheduling/receiving deliveries and scheduling/being present for pickups, not to mention having mattresses come and go to your house might not be for everyone, but 600 bucks is 600 bucks. Almost no sweat off of my back.
rakuten gives up to 10% back on Nike.com. Maybe you need 20 pairs of low top Jordan 1s, and then next week, maybe you don't need any...
(bleep) like that. Some people feel it's too much work and to that end, returns are diminishing. When you find an easy/efficient churn, and there are hundreds of them, you might get a kick out of it along with a useful amount of virtually passive income.
old.reddit.com/r/churning
old.reddit.com/r/creditcards
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 31042
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | How does it work?
Never heard of it. |
Churning is, generally, milking perks from financial/retail institutions at little to no cost to yourself. It might take busywork and chump change but that's where you get to decide how much it's worth it Like when Amex or Chase have signup bonuses of 80,000+ points. Sign up for the card, spend the minimum to get the whatever the bonus may be, which is worth a great deal more than the annual fee, then cancel the card. You've just churned.
I'll share one that I ditched because I have tired of the process: A couple of years ago I ordered a beautyrest mattress while logged in to rakuten, and that day rakuten was doing 15% cashback on purchases. The mattress was $4k+ so I expected a nice 15% kickback. Turns out that the order went through 5 times on their end. I found this out when 5 mattresses showed up at my house on the same day. Obviously, I wasn't going to keep these, so I called customer service to process the returns immediately. The returns went through, but weeks had passed and I noticed that rakuten did not claw back the 4x 15% bonuses. I decided I wanted to try out at least one mattress every month between may 2022-december 2023 any time rakuten offered at least 10% cashback. Scheduling/receiving deliveries and scheduling/being present for pickups, not to mention having mattresses come and go to your house might not be for everyone, but 600 bucks is 600 bucks. Almost no sweat off of my back.
rakuten gives up to 10% back on Nike.com. Maybe you need 20 pairs of low top Jordan 1s, and then next week, maybe you don't need any...
(bleep) like that. Some people feel it's too much work and to that end, returns are diminishing. When you find an easy/efficient churn, and there are hundreds of them, you might get a kick out of it along with a useful amount of virtually passive income.
old.reddit.com/r/churning
old.reddit.com/r/creditcards |
The actual $ comes from the vendor. Some don't have systems set up to get the returns back like in your case with the mattresses. Some definitely do. Macy's for example is completely on top of it. You'll see CB in your account the moment you make a purchase through the CB portal. I returned some items to my local Macy's and the CB amount was adjusted soon as I got home. Adidas doesn't take back the CB on the other hand.
Freaking awesome that you got a score like that lol.
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C M B
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 20086
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | How does it work?
Never heard of it. |
Churning is, generally, milking perks from financial/retail institutions at little to no cost to yourself. It might take busywork and chump change but that's where you get to decide how much it's worth it Like when Amex or Chase have signup bonuses of 80,000+ points. Sign up for the card, spend the minimum to get the whatever the bonus may be, which is worth a great deal more than the annual fee, then cancel the card. You've just churned.
I'll share one that I ditched because I have tired of the process: A couple of years ago I ordered a beautyrest mattress while logged in to rakuten, and that day rakuten was doing 15% cashback on purchases. The mattress was $4k+ so I expected a nice 15% kickback. Turns out that the order went through 5 times on their end. I found this out when 5 mattresses showed up at my house on the same day. Obviously, I wasn't going to keep these, so I called customer service to process the returns immediately. The returns went through, but weeks had passed and I noticed that rakuten did not claw back the 4x 15% bonuses. I decided I wanted to try out at least one mattress every month between may 2022-december 2023 any time rakuten offered at least 10% cashback. Scheduling/receiving deliveries and scheduling/being present for pickups, not to mention having mattresses come and go to your house might not be for everyone, but 600 bucks is 600 bucks. Almost no sweat off of my back.
rakuten gives up to 10% back on Nike.com. Maybe you need 20 pairs of low top Jordan 1s, and then next week, maybe you don't need any...
(bleep) like that. Some people feel it's too much work and to that end, returns are diminishing. When you find an easy/efficient churn, and there are hundreds of them, you might get a kick out of it along with a useful amount of virtually passive income.
old.reddit.com/r/churning
old.reddit.com/r/creditcards |
The actual $ comes from the vendor. Some don't have systems set up to get the returns back like in your case with the mattresses. Some definitely do. Macy's for example is completely on top of it. You'll see CB in your account the moment you make a purchase through the CB portal. I returned some items to my local Macy's and the CB amount was adjusted soon as I got home. Adidas doesn't take back the CB on the other hand.
Freaking awesome that you got a score like that lol. |
jb, I knew. I just KNEW you was paisan on this.
I tested Macy's in the early days. Clawbacking bastards.
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18963
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't do churning per se but I keep enough tabs on credit card usages. For example, I'm due for the Chase Sapphire SUB again so I'm likely gonna downgrade my Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus again, when it's at 80K and I see myself hitting the minimum spend (usually for a trip -- bonus if it's a work trip and reimbursed). Just very low effort stuff to get as many points as possible.
My goal is to accumulate enough points that I can start to find the award flight deals where I can fly first class (or business) on vacation for a modest number of points. I have ~200K Chase & Capital One points so I'm hoping my next solo trip (some time early in 2025) can have at least one leg in business/ first class (finding award flights is kind of a pain though) |
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C M B
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 20086
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | I don't do churning per se but I keep enough tabs on credit card usages. For example, I'm due for the Chase Sapphire SUB again so I'm likely gonna downgrade my Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus again, when it's at 80K and I see myself hitting the minimum spend (usually for a trip -- bonus if it's a work trip and reimbursed). Just very low effort stuff to get as many points as possible.
My goal is to accumulate enough points that I can start to find the award flight deals where I can fly first class (or business) on vacation for a modest number of points. I have ~200K Chase & Capital One points so I'm hoping my next solo trip (some time early in 2025) can have at least one leg in business/ first class (finding award flights is kind of a pain though) |
I do this too. Sapphire is a nice comfy card for this type of thing, I haven't had it in a couple of years though. You aren't kidding about landing first class seats...I was never able to find one the times I had sapphire. This year I am trying with amex platinum. No luck yet, but it's still early on.
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18963
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| Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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^ I joined some FB groups that help people find deals mostly so I became more knowledgeable (I haven't yet managed to get the award flight). There's definitely an art to this. It seems award availability opens up at set amounts of time, usually 10-12 months out. But then more award seats will open up 1-2 weeks before the flight. So my plan will probably be to buy a refundable ticket in cash and then see if I can get lucky on last minute departure award flight.
I need to pick an itinerary first though. |
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Tark the Shark
Star Player
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 3548
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | tox wrote: | I don't do churning per se but I keep enough tabs on credit card usages. For example, I'm due for the Chase Sapphire SUB again so I'm likely gonna downgrade my Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus again, when it's at 80K and I see myself hitting the minimum spend (usually for a trip -- bonus if it's a work trip and reimbursed). Just very low effort stuff to get as many points as possible.
My goal is to accumulate enough points that I can start to find the award flight deals where I can fly first class (or business) on vacation for a modest number of points. I have ~200K Chase & Capital One points so I'm hoping my next solo trip (some time early in 2025) can have at least one leg in business/ first class (finding award flights is kind of a pain though) |
I do this too. Sapphire is a nice comfy card for this type of thing, I haven't had it in a couple of years though. You aren't kidding about landing first class seats...I was never able to find one the times I had sapphire. This year I am trying with amex platinum. No luck yet, but it's still early on. |
How would this work for AMEX? I thought AMEX is a one time bonus even if you switch cards. |
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Cutheon
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12383
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'll chase sign up bonuses for sure, but I'll typically keep the card if the perks are right (AMEX Platinum, for example, because you can easily outpace the ridiculous annual fee through the digital subscription rewards, points, hotel/airline statement credits, pre-check credit, etc.) Amazon has an easy return system that I routinely take advantage of, particularly for movies.
Due up for me are Sapphire and maybe the Hyatt Chase card as I liked the business version and Hyatt can be quite nice, especially the upper end tier, and you can get a night at the top top tiers for only 25K points, which is easy to get with SUB manipulation. I'll you Chase treats you/your entity separately for the Hyatt card, so 2xSUB is, depending on the bonus, between 120-180K points, which is 4-7 free nights at absolute world class hotels/resorts (base model room) (Just checked: for the grand hyatt in Tokyo, a beautiful 5-star hotel, a premium suite is 50K a night points. so with my trick, that's three free night, probably easily $2-3 grand USD. Approx the same for the Park Hyatt Vienna, which is also world class.) |
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Cutheon
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12383
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | tox wrote: | I don't do churning per se but I keep enough tabs on credit card usages. For example, I'm due for the Chase Sapphire SUB again so I'm likely gonna downgrade my Preferred so I can get the sign up bonus again, when it's at 80K and I see myself hitting the minimum spend (usually for a trip -- bonus if it's a work trip and reimbursed). Just very low effort stuff to get as many points as possible.
My goal is to accumulate enough points that I can start to find the award flight deals where I can fly first class (or business) on vacation for a modest number of points. I have ~200K Chase & Capital One points so I'm hoping my next solo trip (some time early in 2025) can have at least one leg in business/ first class (finding award flights is kind of a pain though) |
I do this too. Sapphire is a nice comfy card for this type of thing, I haven't had it in a couple of years though. You aren't kidding about landing first class seats...I was never able to find one the times I had sapphire. This year I am trying with amex platinum. No luck yet, but it's still early on. |
Easier to transfer to airline points and upgrade through airline |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18963
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | I'll chase sign up bonuses for sure, but I'll typically keep the card if the perks are right (AMEX Platinum, for example, because you can easily outpace the ridiculous annual fee through the digital subscription rewards, points, hotel/airline statement credits, pre-check credit, etc.) Amazon has an easy return system that I routinely take advantage of, particularly for movies.
Due up for me are Sapphire and maybe the Hyatt Chase card as I liked the business version and Hyatt can be quite nice, especially the upper end tier, and you can get a night at the top top tiers for only 25K points, which is easy to get with SUB manipulation. I'll you Chase treats you/your entity separately for the Hyatt card, so 2xSUB is, depending on the bonus, between 120-180K points, which is 4-7 free nights at absolute world class hotels/resorts (base model room) (Just checked: for the grand hyatt in Tokyo, a beautiful 5-star hotel, a premium suite is 50K a night points. so with my trick, that's three free night, probably easily $2-3 grand USD. Approx the same for the Park Hyatt Vienna, which is also world class.) |
Finding good redemption rates for great hotels seems like a better use of points if traveling with a partner. I had a long trip to Asia this year and my plan was to try to book first class flights for myself with my points. But then my (at the time) partner wanted to join as well and there was no way I was going to leave her in economy 
I had a friend who stayed in the Tokyo Grand Hyatt of Lost in Translation fame and I visited his suite. Absolutely worthwhile given how shabby Tokyo housing can be, and sometimes it's really undervalued. I forget the details but he did something similar to this [1] but for the Grand Hyatt. Although he shelled out $200/night to upgrade to the top floor because he likes to light money on fire
[1] https://thepointsguy.com/news/chase-points-hyatt-suite-in-tokyo/ |
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eddiejonze
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7483
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Genuinely curious: Is no one worried how applying for a credit card has a hit on your credit report, and can bring it down every time you apply?
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | Genuinely curious: Is no one worried how applying for a credit card has a hit on your credit report, and can bring it down every time you apply? |
Hard credit pull (like applying for a credit card) stay on your report for two years. It's adverse affect on your credit score lasts a year, give or take.
If you have excellent credit, don't sweat it.
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safari_in_cali
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1035
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | Genuinely curious: Is no one worried how applying for a credit card has a hit on your credit report, and can bring it down every time you apply? |
Unless you plan to apply for a mortgage in the near future, and your credit score is borderline excellent (in mid 700s), you shouldn't worry about this. Each hard pull knocks down your score by 5 points or so. The score recovers in a couple months, even though the hard pull stays on your credit report for 2 years. Between me and my wife, we earn around $10K a year in credit card sign up bonuses, which is totally worth it. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 31042
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| safari_in_cali wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | Genuinely curious: Is no one worried how applying for a credit card has a hit on your credit report, and can bring it down every time you apply? |
Unless you plan to apply for a mortgage in the near future, and your credit score is borderline excellent (in mid 700s), you shouldn't worry about this. Each hard pull knocks down your score by 5 points or so. The score recovers in a couple months, even though the hard pull stays on your credit report for 2 years. Between me and my wife, we earn around $10K a year in credit card sign up bonuses, which is totally worth it. |
Man I feel like such a noob. What's a good website to learn about which cards etc?
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safari_in_cali
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1035
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | safari_in_cali wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | Genuinely curious: Is no one worried how applying for a credit card has a hit on your credit report, and can bring it down every time you apply? |
Unless you plan to apply for a mortgage in the near future, and your credit score is borderline excellent (in mid 700s), you shouldn't worry about this. Each hard pull knocks down your score by 5 points or so. The score recovers in a couple months, even though the hard pull stays on your credit report for 2 years. Between me and my wife, we earn around $10K a year in credit card sign up bonuses, which is totally worth it. |
Man I feel like such a noob. What's a good website to learn about which cards etc? |
This is a good place to start: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/best-current-credit-card-sign-bonuses/ |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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^ Good stuff!
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