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Lakeshow23_
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 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | for once I entirely agree with Batguano |
Same 
It was obvious at the time, too. Wade was finished, Kyrie was on the rise, and Cleveland had the assets. I'm sure Bron thought it was going to be smooth sailing with the Spurs aging out but then, of course, the Warriors emerged. Then the KD Warriors happened.. And the rest was history. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | tox wrote: | | for once I entirely agree with Batguano |
Same
It was obvious at the time, too. Wade was finished, Kyrie was on the rise, and Cleveland had the assets. I'm sure Bron thought it was going to be smooth sailing with the Spurs aging out but then, of course, the Warriors emerged. Then the KD Warriors happened.. And the rest was history. |
That's what happen when you draft well... Spurs probably was just an aging team until they struck gold on drafting Kawhi in the mid round. |
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pio2u
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Hard_Butter
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Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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Location: The Two One Three
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Why is his run with the Lakers underwhelming? He won the championship for the Lakers team that had a 20.7% winrate (17-65) 4 years earlier at the old age of 35!!! Then Pelinka tore up the championship team the very next season and so the Lakers couldn't repeat. Lebron also got "hill'd" the following season.
If Lebron and AD was healthy in 2021, then we could have repeated.
In 2023 and 2024, we had Bron and AD healthy so if DLo didn't choke in the playoffs, then we could have won more championships.
Bottom line is there's so many things going into winning a championship such as health and luck. MJ and Pippen were very healthy for most of their championship runs and they also have a competent supporting cast and a legendary headcoach.
If you're going to measure greatness with championships won then Bill Russell, who had won 11 championships, would be the GOAT then. |
Yeah, context matters. LeBron didn't get to enjoy the great front offices and rosters some other stars have.
He had to leave CLE just to get a better co-star than Mo Williams.
The Heat were dealing with a clearly declining Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh before he left.
Kyrie forced his way out and K-Love was declining before he left CLE the 2nd time. The next 2 biggest stars of his generation teamed up alongside 2 high-level all-stars.
LeBron has had to deal with a lot of mess since coming to LA, as he's starting to decline.
I don't think any other star could've done better than him under those circumstances. |
I thought he left Miami because of the backlash that he was receiving for forming a superteam, similar to why KD left the Warriors. If Lebron had stayed with DWade and Bosh in Miami, I think they would have won at least two more championships. But then people would just roll their eyes at him and say "whatever". So if Lebron was really after MJ's 6 championships, then he would have stayed in Miami for sure. |
He left Miami cause Riley wasn't going to let Bron/Klutch have any stranglehold on the org and its decisions. Pat put the kibosh on firing Spo and we probably should've done the same on bringing in Westbrick.
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Snipes
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | Wade was straight-up bad those last two years. In hindsight, Bron winning in 2013 was an impressive accomplishment. Ginobili and Kawhi definitely choked in that Game 6 though.
Bron did jump ship to Cleveland to form another superteam, and the narrative didn't reflect that enough. That's why I was rooting for the upstart Warriors to beat him every year. But 2016 happened and all of that went out the window. That one is, at worst, a top 5 title of all time IMO. It was so seismic that the Warriors had to recruit the second/third best player in the league to beat LeBron. |
Warriors recruiting KD because of 2016 is another Klutch driven take. Warriors got KD because they drafted well (who was their only key FA signing? Iggy?) and had the cap space to go to. Where did you expect KD to go when the trend was super teams, Westbrook was a selfish player that would never win, and Harden had left. Key in the fact that the Warriors just lost a finals the timing was perfect. Do you really think the Warriors were that scared of Cleveland that they HAD to get KD? You’re acting like they got dominated - it was a miracle Kyrie shot and lockdown miracle Kevin Love D on Curry that won them a title. Not to mention an unreal chase down block by Bron and a game 5 suspension to Draymond. Put it this way: they were 1:1 vs each other in the finals, with Gstate only getting better and Cleveland needing a string of things to secure the comeback.
Why do we live in the world where Gstate HAD to get KD because there was no other way to beat Cleveland. Again as if Gstate had been routinely beat down by the Cavs.
Gstate’s entire core was drafted and on team friendly deals. Curry was on a joke of a contract because they took a chance on his ankles. Cap space was there, best FA was available. You go get him regardless. |
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levon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| It's documented that Draymond recruited KD right after losing to LeBron, and KD is on record saying he wouldn't have gone to GS had they won in 2016. It's not a narrative. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | It's documented that Draymond recruited KD right after losing to LeBron, and KD is on record saying he wouldn't have gone to GS had they won in 2016. It's not a narrative. |
What’s so crazy about that… Thunder KD/Russ actually also blew a 3-1 lead in the WCF that year. KD practically joined the team that he choked to and eliminated him. |
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Lakeshow23_
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | levon wrote: | Wade was straight-up bad those last two years. In hindsight, Bron winning in 2013 was an impressive accomplishment. Ginobili and Kawhi definitely choked in that Game 6 though.
Bron did jump ship to Cleveland to form another superteam, and the narrative didn't reflect that enough. That's why I was rooting for the upstart Warriors to beat him every year. But 2016 happened and all of that went out the window. That one is, at worst, a top 5 title of all time IMO. It was so seismic that the Warriors had to recruit the second/third best player in the league to beat LeBron. |
Warriors recruiting KD because of 2016 is another Klutch driven take. Warriors got KD because they drafted well (who was their only key FA signing? Iggy?) and had the cap space to go to. Where did you expect KD to go when the trend was super teams, Westbrook was a selfish player that would never win, and Harden had left. Key in the fact that the Warriors just lost a finals the timing was perfect. Do you really think the Warriors were that scared of Cleveland that they HAD to get KD? You’re acting like they got dominated - it was a miracle Kyrie shot and lockdown miracle Kevin Love D on Curry that won them a title. Not to mention an unreal chase down block by Bron and a game 5 suspension to Draymond. Put it this way: they were 1:1 vs each other in the finals, with Gstate only getting better and Cleveland needing a string of things to secure the comeback.
Why do we live in the world where Gstate HAD to get KD because there was no other way to beat Cleveland. Again as if Gstate had been routinely beat down by the Cavs.
Gstate’s entire core was drafted and on team friendly deals. Curry was on a joke of a contract because they took a chance on his ankles. Cap space was there, best FA was available. You go get him regardless. |
Cleveland weren't whole in 2016, either. Love was badly concussed, missed a game and a half and was terrible after his return. The Cavs were better with him off the floor. Mozgov and Shumpert, two critical role players, were injured and virtually out of the rotation. That series was essentially just Lebron and Kyrie willing the team to victory.
Without KD, the teams are about evenly matched.. but just looking at how 2015 and 2016 played out, you have to imagine that Cleveland would be the favorites. |
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Hard_Butter
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Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | Snipes wrote: | | levon wrote: | Wade was straight-up bad those last two years. In hindsight, Bron winning in 2013 was an impressive accomplishment. Ginobili and Kawhi definitely choked in that Game 6 though.
Bron did jump ship to Cleveland to form another superteam, and the narrative didn't reflect that enough. That's why I was rooting for the upstart Warriors to beat him every year. But 2016 happened and all of that went out the window. That one is, at worst, a top 5 title of all time IMO. It was so seismic that the Warriors had to recruit the second/third best player in the league to beat LeBron. |
Warriors recruiting KD because of 2016 is another Klutch driven take. Warriors got KD because they drafted well (who was their only key FA signing? Iggy?) and had the cap space to go to. Where did you expect KD to go when the trend was super teams, Westbrook was a selfish player that would never win, and Harden had left. Key in the fact that the Warriors just lost a finals the timing was perfect. Do you really think the Warriors were that scared of Cleveland that they HAD to get KD? You’re acting like they got dominated - it was a miracle Kyrie shot and lockdown miracle Kevin Love D on Curry that won them a title. Not to mention an unreal chase down block by Bron and a game 5 suspension to Draymond. Put it this way: they were 1:1 vs each other in the finals, with Gstate only getting better and Cleveland needing a string of things to secure the comeback.
Why do we live in the world where Gstate HAD to get KD because there was no other way to beat Cleveland. Again as if Gstate had been routinely beat down by the Cavs.
Gstate’s entire core was drafted and on team friendly deals. Curry was on a joke of a contract because they took a chance on his ankles. Cap space was there, best FA was available. You go get him regardless. |
Cleveland weren't whole in 2016, either. Love was badly concussed, missed a game and a half and was terrible after his return. The Cavs were better with him off the floor. Mozgov and Shumpert, two critical role players, were injured and virtually out of the rotation. That series was essentially just Lebron and Kyrie willing the team to victory.
Without KD, the teams are about evenly matched.. but just looking at how 2015 and 2016 played out, you have to imagine that Cleveland would be the favorites. |
That was the Finals where Kyrie only played one game and LeBron went super sayan with a bunch of scrubs winning 2 gms they had no business of winning. That and him dragging those G-league Cavs team to the Finals in '06 and '18 is way more impressive to me than any of his championships.
And this old ass mfer is still doing it. You have to respect that. No one has beaten father time, but LBJ has come the closest.
PS -The Lakers were 3rd in the west and playing really well up until Bron sustained that groin injury his first year here.. Who knows what would've happened had he been healthy....
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The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:43 am Post subject: |
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41 days to preseason. Word to AD and Bron GO HOME, GET SOME REST, GET IN SHAPE.
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Sooo no pics of Lebron and Davis getting buff in the offseason? LG is falling off.
Too soon?
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I Bleed P&G
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Get ready for LeTour. |
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